First impressions of the "gray" alignments
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2011-01-25 24:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
If waiting for years for a "solution" to a "problem" that's clearly debatable whether it's actually a problem in the first place makes you happy then knock yourself out with that.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
The devs have been known to do nothing about a particular imbalance for years, before they finally come around to addressing it.
I'm patient. |
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Quote:
You're really trying hard to move the goalposts here. I never said the game was "ruined". However, having poorly balanced AT's does impact the number of viable choices I have in the game and I would rather that the AT's were, in their own ways, equally desirable (although not equal in function). Realizing that this isn't possible, I'm happy to settle for "roughly equal".|
Originally Posted by Lothic
I'm sure there are AT's out there that 70% of the playerbase have played versus others that only 30% have played. Does that fact ruin the game experience FOR YOU or for those OTHER people.
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AT's that are infrequently played should be reviewed to determine why people don't want to play them and "fixed" to make them more desireable, hence increasing the number of viable options people have while playing. Playing an AT you don't find desirable should not be considered a "viable" option.
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I've been trying to divine a justification from you other than "I want it" and I haven't seen it yet in this thread. If you want to have any chance to make your case to the Devs over this you're going to have to do a whole lot better than that. Just trying to be helpful here. |
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
I might, if I knew you would actually listen. You've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you would not.
Do please go on with your tyrannical and egocentric rants. They are most entertaining. |
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Dude, if you don't know what the problem is after it's been explained to you time and again just in this thread alone, then that's clear evidence that you're just completely unwilling to even listen in the first place.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
If waiting for years for a "solution" to a "problem" that's clearly debatable whether it's actually a problem in the first place makes you happy then knock yourself out with that.
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I'm sorry we're disturbing your wonderful utopia here, but seeing as both me and Jophiel have been playing this game for nearly as long as you have, I say that should give our observations a little weight.
In the meantime, I've totally stopped taking you seriously. Well, maybe I never did.
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I find the fact that the alignment spread in the game is 77/23 as a mere bit in interesting trivia. I don't see it as a "problem" to be solved and I dare say the Devs are busy enough with other things that they aren't going to be treating as a game-breaking problem either. Mountain, meet molehill.
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Originally Posted by Jophiel
You're really trying hard to move the goalposts here. I never said the game was "ruined". However, having poorly balanced AT's does impact the number of viable choices I have in the game and I would rather that the AT's were, in their own ways, equally desirable (although not equal in function). Realizing that this isn't possible, I'm happy to settle for "roughly equal".
AT's that are infrequently played should be reviewed to determine why people don't want to play them and "fixed" to make them more desireable, hence increasing the number of viable options people have while playing. Playing an AT you don't find desirable should not be considered a "viable" option. |
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I understand that you "consider" what we've been talking about here as a problem to be fixed. Points of view are funny like that.|
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Dude, if you don't know what the problem is after it's been explained to you time and again just in this thread alone, then that's clear evidence that you're just completely unwilling to even listen in the first place.
I'm sorry we're disturbing your wonderful utopia here, but seeing as both me and Jophiel have been playing this game for nearly as long as you have, I say that should give our observations a little weight. In the meantime, I've totally stopped taking you seriously. Well, maybe I never did. |
I have simply being trying to get you to understand that if you seriously want to get the Devs to listen to you you're going to have to do a whole lot better job stating your case. You can barely get past me by being semi-insulting to me personally as someone you don't want to take "seriously" anymore. If you can't even get past me and my mediocre defense of the Devs' system how would you ever convince a Dev?
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Excellent. I'm... umm... glad to hear it?|
Originally Posted by Lothic
I find the fact that the alignment spread in the game is 77/23 as a mere bit in interesting trivia.
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| I don't see it as a "problem" to be solved and I dare say the Devs are busy enough with other things that they aren't going to be treating as a game-breaking problem either. |
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Your persistently condescending attitude is legend. Don't think that I haven't noticed it over the years.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
I understand that you "consider" what we've been talking about here as a problem to be fixed. Points of view are funny like that.
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Quote:
| I have simply being trying to get you to understand that if you seriously want to get the Devs to listen to you you're going to have to do a whole lot better job stating your case. You can barely get past me by being semi-insulting to me personally as someone you don't want to take "seriously" anymore. If you can't even get past me and my mediocre defense of the Devs' system how would you ever convince a Dev? |
So please stop doing them a favor, and start speaking for yourself. I hear that you're quite good at that.
The reasons why we think it's imbalanced are already in this thread (which you've cleverly derailed, congrats!). I'm not going to waste my time repeating them over and over again just so you can continue to keep your fingers in your ears while screaming very loud.
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Your position on this subject doesn't upset me. I don't really care if you think there's a problem to be fixed here or not. My main concern is the potential waste of Dev time to "tweak" a situation that has no game effect on you, me or the moon just to get an abstract playerbase ratio from something like 70/30 to 60/40. If you can honestly tell me how that much of a slight change would radically improve anyone's personal enjoyment of this game I'd be more that perfectly willing to hear it and even lead the charge to suggest to the Devs that they waste valuable time on it.|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
Entirely possible. Luckily, I haven't put any more effort into worrying about it than typing some forum postings. Given that this is a thread titled "First Impressions of the 'Gray' Alignments", it seemed kind of apropos to talk about it here even if it upset you to read about it.
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Those numbers do show an unequal distribution of players relative to alignments. That much is true. What you've failed to do so far is explain to me why that is a problem to be solved. Why must it be more equal? What benefit as a player would you directly gain from that? Please, all joking aside, I want you to explain it to me. I really do. Because if you can actually explain it to me then you might have a snowball's chance in hell of explaining it to the Devs.
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If you say so.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Your position on this subject doesn't upset me.
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Funny how now, she's suddenly playing "dev's advocate". And apparently has always been!
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Originally Posted by Jophiel
If you say so.
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I think it's perfectly balanced right now. My Heroes and Villains earn A merits, which grant better rewards. My Rogues and Vigilantes have the ability to run any Task/Strike Force on either side, which means they are earning Shards much faster.
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I never claimed to be a Dev (and as you say thank god for that).|
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Your persistently condescending attitude is legend. Don't think that I haven't noticed it over the years.
Well thank the gods that you're not a dev. I think if you were, I'd have stopped playing this game a long time ago. Thankfully, the devs have much cooler heads and actually listen to what the players actually have to say. So please stop doing them a favor, and start speaking for yourself. I hear that you're quite good at that. The reasons why we think it's imbalanced are already in this thread (which you've cleverly derailed, congrats!). I'm not going to waste my time repeating them over and over again just so you can continue to keep your fingers in your ears while screaming very loud. |
But I'm willing to consider myself self-important enough to speculate that since you've failed to convince me of the necessity of your suggestions here I'm more than positive you will fail to convince any Dev either. If anything please grant my many years of "persistently condescending attitude" on these forums that much respect.
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Yes I actually have been playing Devs' Devil's Advocate in this thread to encourage you to come up with better ways to support your relatively flimsy position. I'm glad you finally realized that. |
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Funny how now, she's suddenly playing "dev's advocate". And apparently has always been!
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And you guys have been accusing ME of not having a valid defense for my position here. Sorry I upset you. Take care. |
Originally Posted by Jophiel
If you say so.
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And with that I'll say BINGO! and bid you all a fond farewell. |
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
I think it's perfectly balanced right now. My Heroes and Villains earn A merits, which grant better rewards. My Rogues and Vigilantes have the ability to run any Task/Strike Force on either side, which means they are earning Shards much faster.
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Wait! This is where I insist I'm not upset and then type another paragraph after it showing how not upset I am, right??? |
Originally Posted by Lothic
Sorry I upset you.
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I keep reading this thread title with one letter missing.
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What's a "ray alignment"? Sounds scientific!
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Well that's good, because I never said that you claimed to be a dev. So... yay?|
Originally Posted by Lothic
I never claimed to be a Dev (and as you say thank god for that).
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But I'm willing to consider myself self-important enough to speculate that since you've failed to convince me of the necessity of your suggestions here I'm more than positive you will fail to convince any Dev either. If anything please grant my many years of "persistently condescending attitude" on these forums that much respect.
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Quite frankly, it boggles my mind that you can't see that there's anything wrong. Especially after I explained earlier why it was imbalanced; you pretty much went out of your way to evade that explanation, after I thwarted your previous attempt to deflect the issue. You preferred to spend your time miring Jophiel in mindless minutia that was, at best, only tangentially related to the problem we all have been trying to talk about.
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Read: "I shall now retreat and declare victory!"|
Originally Posted by Lothic
And with that I'll say BINGO! and bid you all a fond farewell.
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Not very convincing, no.
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C'mon now. When someone's arguments are "You're claiming the game is ruined because you'll only be happy with 50/50 and you'd throw out every underperforming archetype, you big whiner! Convince me otherwise or you'll never convince a dev!", it's hardly work to respond |
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
miring Jophiel in mindless minutia
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I was seriously rolling my eyes at all that. I mean, seriously! Like the devs are gonna throw demographic data at us, the players, if we're clamoring for a change?|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
C'mon now. When someone's arguments are "You're claiming the game is ruined because you'll only be happy with 50/50 and you'd throw out every underperforming archetype, you big whiner! Convince me otherwise or you'll never convince a dev!", it's hardly work to respond
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I liked this thread better when I was making suggestions about Rogue and Vigilante content.
Wow...um
Ok. Why were A-merits added? Supposedly because the advangage of being gray was greater than the advantage of being pure. The fix was the addition of A-merits for the pure Alignments.
Personally I don't care if, or even think it would be a good idea if, the gray alignments get their own A-merits.
Before when A-merits didn't exist, there was no reason to stay pure because the gray alignments had everything the pure ones did and more. The method to add incentive to the pure alignments was, in my opinion, too much. I believe that something should be added to what is currently there to bring the total package of incentives for gray alignments, to the same level as the pure alignments.
As to using other characters to gain the item a person might need. When I want to play, say, Test and Faith or Nagoh Shan. I want to play that character. I dont mind spending more time getting stuff, so long as there's equal benefit to the choice of having them rogue. Equal benefit doesn't mean exactly the same, it means if you dont have as much of this, you get some of this added until it becomes a viable option, gameplay-wise.
Concept-wise, I love the idea of a rogue or vigilane alignment. I don't have any Vigilane characters, but I do have a rogue. I wan't my time spent as a rogue to be as valuable as time spent as a hero, villain, or vigilante.
BTW, Did GG hack your account Lothic?
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More balanced rewards would benefit me and make it a "better" game and be reflected in the more balanced population. The population is a signal that there's a problem, not the problem itself.
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