Get both. There's no need to 6-slot either of them. Both Tough and Weave are important for an Ice tanker, as Weave lets you get to the softcap without Energy Absorption, and Tough gives you some much needed resistance.
Edit: I'll even say that ALL tankers should get Tough and Weave. There is literally no exception.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Im a sucker for both even sacrifice a power to at least 5 slot both, if you had to choose on I would pick weave for Def against all as the tank.
Global@SteelDominator
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What Auroxis said isn't entirely correct... |
Originally Posted by Icesphere
So I made my ice/ice tank and he is doing very well. But looking at other forums people say tough and weave are important. I have room to 6 slot one or I can even them both out. But should I? Will I notice a major difference or should I even bother? Any advice would be great, thanks!
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If you are running on purely SO's / Crafted IO's, and you have Frozen Armor, Glacial Armor, Weave, Maneuvers, and Combat Jumping, and you have each of them maxed with 4 level 50 crafted defense enhancements... you still won't be at soft cap. You'll be .5% off.
With just basic SO slotting, Frozen Armor, Glacial Armor, Weave, and Energy Absorption will put you up and over the 45% soft-capped defense to Smashing, Lethal, Energy, and Negative energy attacks.
So yes, you likely will notice an improvement in survivability with Weave.
Tough's improvements are not as noticable as Ice has next to no damage resistance to begin with.
Personally I would slot the powers:
Tough:
Steadfast Resistance +Def
Titanium Coating Resist / Endurance
Titanium Coating Resistance
Weave:
LoTG 7.5%
LoTG Defense / Endurance
LoTG Defense
Read up on Enhancement Diversification. With the invention system, it is rarely necessary to 6-slot any power just to get a good amount of defense out of it. With 3-4 slots, you can usually get full defense and endurance reduction bonuses. The only thing to consider after that is what set bonuses you want, which depends more on your overall build than the power you are slotting.
You just said tough isn't as important as weave, but suggest I should split my slots evenly between them? Wouldn't it be smarter just to go with weave? Because I have all the powers+energy absorption; wouldn't that in itself be enough?
Quote:
Syntax42 answered this in his post. There's a limit to how much you can buff any one particular power. |
Originally Posted by Icesphere
You just said tough isn't as important as weave, but suggest I should split my slots evenly between them? Wouldn't it be smarter just to go with weave? Because I have all the powers+energy absorption; wouldn't that in itself be enough?
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You can use Tough as a platform to boost your base defense with the Steadfast Protection Resistance / +Defense enhancement: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Steadfas...stance/Defense
As to whether or not that, in and of itself, will be enough?
Well, only you can judge that.
I was in the middle of typing(internet phone takes longer for me) when syntax posted, sorry about that. I still have a lot more to learn from this game and the site helped answer a lot.
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Keep in mind that you have to take two powers in the Fighting Pool as prerequisites to Weave. So you'll end up taking two essentially throw-away attacks, Boxing and Kick, or just one of the attacks and Tough. Even for an Ice Tank with no other S/L resistance, IMO Tough is a far better choice than a second attack that you don't need and probably won't use.
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Originally Posted by Icesphere
You just said tough isn't as important as weave, but suggest I should split my slots evenly between them? Wouldn't it be smarter just to go with weave? Because I have all the powers+energy absorption; wouldn't that in itself be enough?
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My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Quote:
*This* I completely disagree with. Tough and Weave are always useful, and I do recommend them in most cases, but you can build a tank that's plenty sturdy enough for most content without them.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Edit: I'll even say that ALL tankers should get Tough and Weave. There is literally no exception.
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The Fighting Pool isn't even essential for defense sets like Shields and Ice. In those sets you can reach the soft-cap without Weave by slotting for defense set bonuses if you're willing to spend the influence to do so.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Both always.. I take them on every single tank... without fail... More resistance and more defense is always a plus.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Quote:
For me this is almost as silly as when all tankers had to dip into the Presence pool. Defense/resistance is supposed to be what tankers do best so why do they need a pool power to do what they do best?|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Edit: I'll even say that ALL tankers should get Tough and Weave. There is literally no exception.
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^
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
Quote:
Because a tanker's job is to survive anything, and they get the best numbers out of these powers anyway.|
Originally Posted by McBoo
For me this is almost as silly as when all tankers had to dip into the Presence pool. Defense/resistance is supposed to be what tankers do best so why do they need a pool power to do what they do best?
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Defenders usually take leadership powers, but why would they if buffing the team is what they do best? It's because defenders get the most out of these type of powers. That's also why tankers should take tough/weave. They get the more benefit from these powers than anyone else does.
Keep in mind, every % of resist/defense you add does more for you than the % before it.
I don't agree that every tank needs tough/weave, but you'd have to be daft to suggest that just because "they're the best at it" they shouldn't get even more.
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I've built resistance tankers who are not going for defense and chosen to take Tough but not Weave (since they are not trying to stack defense). I recognize that defense would make them stronger, but I have plenty of defense builds and resistance builds with defense, so sometimes I go another way. They still seem pretty nice.
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Quote:
Hence why I said should and not have to.
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Originally Posted by McBoo
For me this is almost as silly as when all tankers had to dip into the Presence pool. Defense/resistance is supposed to be what tankers do best so why do they need a pool power to do what they do best?
^ |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
While this may be true, it is much more efficient to add Tough and Weave to a build than it is to add in ~7.5% defense to all, using sets instead. Tough adds a lot of survivability to any build that isn't capped to S/L already.
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Originally Posted by Finduilas
*This* I completely disagree with. Tough and Weave are always useful, and I do recommend them in most cases, but you can build a tank that's plenty sturdy enough for most content without them.
The Fighting Pool isn't even essential for defense sets like Shields and Ice. In those sets you can reach the soft-cap without Weave by slotting for defense set bonuses if you're willing to spend the influence to do so. |
Quote:
I added Tough to a blaster once... it stopped ten points of damage from attacks. Hardly worth the slotting and a complete waste.|
Originally Posted by McBoo
For me this is almost as silly as when all tankers had to dip into the Presence pool. Defense/resistance is supposed to be what tankers do best so why do they need a pool power to do what they do best?
^ |
I have Tough and Weave on all my tanks to get closer to the cap for defense.
I do have and use Tough/Weave on my stone tank as well. I do not always use Granite and sitting at 39% S/L/E/N is all that is needed sometimes.
For Ice and SD I highly recommend it. Getting closer to the cap and being able to use IO bonuses for other things is nice. Slotting for recharge really helps both.
YMMV---IMO
Ice Ember
Quote:
On an Ice tank, taking and slotting Tough will increase your S/L resistance from 0% to 23%; whether that represents a significant increase in survivability is highly debatable. It will definitely be more valuable to a Shield tanker, since it will double the native S/L resistance to 46%.|
Originally Posted by Syntax42
While this may be true, it is much more efficient to add Tough and Weave to a build than it is to add in ~7.5% defense to all, using sets instead. Tough adds a lot of survivability to any build that isn't capped to S/L already.
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Taking Weave is certainly more efficient in terms of reaching the defense soft-cap with minimal set bonuses, which will allow a player to slot for other set bonuses. However, if the player's priority is flexibility in power selection, then achieving the soft-cap with set bonuses and skipping the Fighting pool might be the better option.
On my pre-I19 Ice/Axe I skipped Weave because it was a choice between Weave and Icicles. Inherent Stamina made that no longer an issue, and that tank now has Weave. However, I can definitely conceive of conditions where it might be desirable to skip it.
I also want to note in response to another post that unlike /SR, Ice and SD do NOT need to take Tough to slot the Steadfast +Def. Ice can slot it in Hoarfrost or Permafrost, and SD can slot it in Deflection or True Grit.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
I have tough and weave on my Ice tank. I don't think it is needed to tank. I have them not because they can be beneficial by making you more flexible in how you can tank for different team make ups but in picking all my powers in order of what I wanted to do now fitness isn't something you have to pick, I have plenty of room for it.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Persons with resistance tanks such as Electric/ or Fire/, who have no built in defense and are also not building for defense, really have no use for Weave. I'd say at least Tough every tank should take.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
Get both. There's no need to 6-slot either of them. Both Tough and Weave are important for an Ice tanker, as Weave lets you get to the softcap without Energy Absorption, and Tough gives you some much needed resistance.
Edit: I'll even say that ALL tankers should get Tough and Weave. There is literally no exception. |
Quote:
Why would you not build for defense? And even if you aren't, Weave is useful.
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Originally Posted by Hatred666
Persons with resistance tanks such as Electric/ or Fire/, who have no built in defense and are also not building for defense, really have no use for Weave. I'd say at least Tough every tank should take.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
People who have a few tanks might like to have each one survive by different means. I know I do.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
Why would you not build for defense? And even if you aren't, Weave is useful.
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I personally didn't think I would need tough or weave on my tank... until I did the Apex / Tin Mage, and started doing +4 TFs. After Bobcat slashes you for 5000 damage, you'll want to have hard-capped slashing resistance if your anywhere near her pointy frontside.
The cool thing about the fighting pool on, well, pretty much any melee AT is that the bonuses from tough and weave become more potent the more Resistance/Defense you have. I.E. my Willpower tank can get his S/L resistance up to the low 80's without the fighting pool. Tough lets him beef up to 90. Doesn't sound like much at first, until you notice that I am taking 10% of damage instead of 20%; cutting the incoming damage by half!
If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing. My motto for tanking.
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Quote:
Aside from concept I see no reasoning. Surviving is a total package, with each layer of mitigation multiplying the other.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
People who have a few tanks might like to have each one survive by different means. I know I do.
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Stone tanks aren't the most survivable just because of their capped resistances. They are the most survivable because of their capped resistances and defense, very high HP, DDR, and Regen.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Adding in Tough and Weave on a tank is like getting a second scoop of ice cream, with whipped cream. It's not "necessary", but I generally won't turn down the extras. 
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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So I made my ice/ice tank and he is doing very well. But looking at other forums people say tough and weave are important. I have room to 6 slot one or I can even them both out. But should I? Will I notice a major difference or should I even bother? Any advice would be great, thanks!