And what would you do with those people who are already using them for both PVP and PVE?
/unsigned.
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fixed that for you. Also only level 50's that have unlocked the alpha slot get a 3rd build. I've heard there are some PvPers who disable XP and stay in their 30's. |
Originally Posted by mintmiki
Since we have 3 builds available now, it'll be easy for a player to make a build exclusively for PvP (esp. since most pvpers do this anyways).
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| It would be nice to be able to IO a pvp toon for 100 mil. |
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They'll have to make a new build. That money they spent will be lost. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
And what would you do with those people who are already using them for both PVP and PVE?
/unsigned. |
PVPers have been complaining about the drop rates for PVP IOs for a long time. If you increase the drop rate to make them common, then inevitably they will lose out on the money they've already spent. But overall, it benefits the whole community.
You prob. spent at least 5 billion making that one build for both PVP and PVE.
IF you separate the bonuses, and increase the drop rate on PVPs, you can IO out 2 builds (PVP AND PVE) for the price you spend on ONE build. And you made PVP more accessible to the rest of the player population. AND you solve the AFK farming problem.
Triumph Lurker: mintmiki 50 emp/archer
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Huge thanks to cuppamanga and all the folks in the mac help forum for prolonging my borrowed time on this game.
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And thus not something that would be agreed with *at all.* Why screw over the customer?|
Originally Posted by mintmiki
They'll have to make a new build. That money they spent will be lost.
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| PVPers have been complaining about the drop rates for PVP IOs for a long time. If you increase the drop rate to make them common, then inevitably they will lose out on the money they've already spent. But overall, it benefits the whole community. |
Suddenly invalidating peoples builds does not benefit *anyone.* It would, frankly, be more likely to *shrink* the community. Someone works on a build, manages to get the money for those IOs (or the merits) and then a day, week, or month later it's invalid?
Go look at the reaction to ED and the GDN. People DO leave over these things.
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| You prob. spent at least 5 billion making that one build for both PVP and PVE. |
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| IF you separate the bonuses, and increase the drop rate on PVPs, you can IO out 2 builds (PVP AND PVE) for the price you spend on ONE build. And you made PVP more accessible to the rest of the player population. AND you solve the AFK farming problem. |
IMHO, you've got it backwards. PVP was more "accessible" before issue *9.* Yes, the issue inventions were introduced. Everyone had SOs or, at best, Hamis. If anything, the PVP builds should be - if you're trying to go for "accessibility to everyone" - restricted to non-set IOs. Just regular recipes, common IOs and your insp tray. Of course, then you irritate the... what, 20? remaining hardcore PVPers in the game and they leave because you've just invalidated the work and time THEY put into their builds.
Short form: You want a guaranteed PVP IO, stay on one "full" alignment and work on your merits, and spend the rest of the time PVPing. Merits = guaranteed PVP IO, PVPing = chance for one.
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You say that I'm dreaming? Those "hard core" pvpers have mostly resorted to afk farming for PVP Ios. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Short form: You want a guaranteed PVP IO, stay on one "full" alignment and work on your merits, and spend the rest of the time PVPing. Merits = guaranteed PVP IO, PVPing = chance for one. |
They have been complaining about drop rates for months now. My solution? Give them what they want. End of story.
Triumph Lurker: mintmiki 50 emp/archer
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Huge thanks to cuppamanga and all the folks in the mac help forum for prolonging my borrowed time on this game.
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That only works in a dream world. PvP io's were meant to be ultra rare. They have the same exemplar rules as purples. Your idea would do nothing but screw people over.
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Originally Posted by mintmiki
You say that I'm dreaming? Those "hard core" pvpers have mostly resorted to afk farming for PVP Ios.
They have been complaining about drop rates for months now. My solution? Give them what they want. End of story. |
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You do realize that by taking away the PvE aspect the PvEers will lose interest in aquiring a useless IO and the market will become even more barren as the PvEer's that want them will stop going into PvP to get them. Yes, there are PvEer's that participate in PvP solely to get those drops and not because they enjoy PvP.|
Originally Posted by mintmiki
You say that I'm dreaming? Those "hard core" pvpers have mostly resorted to afk farming for PVP Ios.
They have been complaining about drop rates for months now. My solution? Give them what they want. End of story. |
Way to kick the already miniscule PvP population in the teeth.
What about uniques? That function both in PvP and PvE? (3% def, 3% res anyone?) and then you factor in DR.. so not just are you screwing over the PvE bonuses, but then your dimishing the value of the PvP bonuses by forcing players to only use them in a setting where they are dimished.
/unsigned
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Only one *tiny* part of your suggestion "gives them what they want," namely increasing the drop rate. (And, again, while it takes time, Alignment merits give a guaranteed result - no getting an IO you have no use for.) |
Originally Posted by mintmiki
You say that I'm dreaming? Those "hard core" pvpers have mostly resorted to afk farming for PVP Ios.
They have been complaining about drop rates for months now. My solution? Give them what they want. End of story. |
The rest pretty much screws over them *and everyone else,* lowering interest in PVP and one of the rewards *even farther,* if it doesn't just drive some people out of the game wholesale for what would be one of the most poorly considered nerfs ever.
Might as well just save the time and convert the PVP zones over to PVE instead of implementing this. The arenas can be... I don't know. Stores or something.
Want to simplify it? Bump the drop rate up slightly for PVP. Then *halve* it (appropriately, given how powers work differently in the zones) and apply it to PVE mobs in the PVP zones.
This retains their rare value, leaves some risk for the alternate (going for PVE mobs, which you tend to kill off anyway as a matter of course,) retains their use in the PVE game (you know, the *majority* of it,) and increases supply. WITHOUT screwing anyone over.
The whole point of this thread was to alleviate the problem that PVP IOs are not just rare, they are pretty much impossible to get with regular gameplay in a reasonable amount of time.
1. Droprates in regular PVP play are such that you have to kill another player for hours in order to get a drop. Hence the birth of afk farming.
2. The cost of PVP IOs have often gone over the inf. cap, with players selling a single proc for 4-5 billion in some cases through the forums. They are way too expensive. Hence the birth of afk farming.
3. To buy a pvpio using merits, you'd have to tf every day to get at least 50 merits, then do 5 tip mishes. Do that every day for 20 days and you get ONE pvpio. So to get a single set of pvpios will take 5 months of playing and converting every single day. Hence again the birth of afk farming.
So unless you've been playing for 6 years and have lots of loot stored up, or two accounts for afk farming, you're up a creek.
My point is to make the IOs so that farming is not the only reasonable means of acquiring them. They don't have to be worthless, nor do they have to cost more than a billion a piece.
Triumph Lurker: mintmiki 50 emp/archer
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Huge thanks to cuppamanga and all the folks in the mac help forum for prolonging my borrowed time on this game.
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And this is why the devs call them ULTRA RARE. They are designed to be harder to get than normal rare drops. The fact that you are having a hard time getting them is proof that the drop rate and the RNG are working as intended.|
Originally Posted by mintmiki
The whole point of this thread was to alleviate the problem that PVP IOs are not just rare, they are pretty much impossible to get with regular gameplay in a reasonable amount of time.
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/unsigned
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Sooo...screw over the PvE builds that bought the PvP IOs with Hero Merits, sounds like a good thing?|
Originally Posted by mintmiki
They'll have to make a new build. That money they spent will be lost.
PVPers have been complaining about the drop rates for PVP IOs for a long time. If you increase the drop rate to make them common, then inevitably they will lose out on the money they've already spent. But overall, it benefits the whole community. You prob. spent at least 5 billion making that one build for both PVP and PVE. IF you separate the bonuses, and increase the drop rate on PVPs, you can IO out 2 builds (PVP AND PVE) for the price you spend on ONE build. And you made PVP more accessible to the rest of the player population. AND you solve the AFK farming problem. |
I'd rather not lose the use of 3% Defense IO and my -Resist Proc IO because they went to work in PvP zones only.
/unsign (is also 4 hero merits away from second +Defense IO! so REALLY /UNSIGNED)
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
There's some HUGE problems with your thought process. You're assuming that people only use these sets for PvP for one thing. I personally do not PvP very much but I choose to put at least a couple of PvP IOs in every build I make. The first toon that comes to mind is my main. I have a panacea proc in health and a glad's armor proc in tough. I saved for months to get them and I'm really proud of my build. I consider him to be one of the best corruptors on Freedom and I'm not alone. If those IOs were to suddenly become useless for PvE then I would have wasted all that time and investment. I would have to rebuild my toon all over again. Secondly, why fix what isn't broken? The reason PvP sets are so hard to get is because they are supposed to be. Get over it.
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Oh child, do you have any idea how much of a shitstorm that would kick up?
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Originally Posted by mintmiki
They'll have to make a new build. That money they spent will be lost.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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"Ultra" rare. By design. And there are alternate ways of getting them. |
Originally Posted by mintmiki
The whole point of this thread was to alleviate the problem that PVP IOs are not just rare, they are pretty much impossible to get with regular gameplay in a reasonable amount of time.
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| 1. Droprates in regular PVP play are such that you have to kill another player for hours in order to get a drop. Hence the birth of afk farming. |
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| 2. The cost of PVP IOs have often gone over the inf. cap, with players selling a single proc for 4-5 billion in some cases through the forums. They are way too expensive. Hence the birth of afk farming. |
Looking at what's available on one set:
Panacea, End/Rech, level 50 recipe: 55 million
Panacea, Heal/Rech, 220 million (similar to many purples)
Panacea, End/heal, 100 million
Panacea End/Heal/Rech - 1 bill (none for sale, had to go look.)
Panacea, Heal, 1 bill.
Yes, some are expensive. Others are, for an ultra rare recipe, dirt cheap. (And none are required.) Much like purples - some are far, far cheaper than others. Given these are (a) meant to be *ultra* rare, and (b) drop from an activity that very little of the playerbase engages in (and fewer enjoy,) this is not a surprise.
Now, let me repeat something for you: *Screwing over people who use these for PVE - which includes some people that PVP - would not improve the situation.*
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| 3. To buy a pvpio using merits, you'd have to tf every day to get at least 50 merits, then do 5 tip mishes. Do that every day for 20 days and you get ONE pvpio. So to get a single set of pvpios will take 5 months of playing and converting every single day. Hence again the birth of afk farming. |
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| My point is to make the IOs so that farming is not the only reasonable means of acquiring them. They don't have to be worthless, nor do they have to cost more than a billion a piece. |
Now, repeat after me:
"You do not need PVP IOs. They are not required - not even to PVP."
They are a luxury item. Just like not everyone drives a top of the line Rolls Royce or Lamborghini, not everyone is going to have PVP IOs. They're not needed. And you CERTAINLY shouldn't be screwing over people using them outside of PVP zones.
This has to be one of the worst suggestions ever, for obvious reasons mentioned in this thread.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
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Ah, I see. Thank you very much everyone. You are all great.
Triumph Lurker: mintmiki 50 emp/archer
basically, if you see a miki on Triumph, it's probably cute and it's probably me.
Huge thanks to cuppamanga and all the folks in the mac help forum for prolonging my borrowed time on this game.
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You probably could have gotten better reception with a slightly modified suggestion: Adding PvP Exclusive IOs. Sets that only have PvP bonuses, can only be obtained through PvP, but due to these limits drop more often then corresponding PvE IOs. The numbers wouldn't have to be exceptionally better (or better at all) then other sets or set bonuses to make them valuable. Just having them drop more often due to limited use would drive their market in the PvP circles (in theory).
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Originally Posted by mintmiki
Ah, I see. Thank you very much everyone. You are all great.
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Purely by looking at the thread title alone, I believe the answer to your question is no.
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Well, obviously I don't know what I'm doing and there isn't a problem. So the point is moot.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Right
You probably could have gotten better reception with a slightly modified suggestion: Adding PvP Exclusive IOs. Sets that only have PvP bonuses, can only be obtained through PvP, but due to these limits drop more often then corresponding PvE IOs. The numbers wouldn't have to be exceptionally better (or better at all) then other sets or set bonuses to make them valuable. Just having them drop more often due to limited use would drive their market in the PvP circles (in theory).
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Triumph Lurker: mintmiki 50 emp/archer
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Huge thanks to cuppamanga and all the folks in the mac help forum for prolonging my borrowed time on this game.
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Not really. Asking to have currently Ultra Rare IOs suddenly not preform half of their function is obviously bad. It would be comparable to asking that PvP IOs no longer give PvP bonuses and instead be converted into PvE IOs on the reasoning that "most people who use them don't PvP anyway". It's bad logic and a bad idea.|
Originally Posted by mintmiki
Well, obviously I don't know what I'm doing and there isn't a problem. So the point is moot.
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Asking to have NEW sets added, avoiding the whole "invalidate entire sets of IOs" issue is probably a bit better.
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Thank you for that. |
Originally Posted by Mr_Right
Not really. Asking to have currently Ultra Rare IOs suddenly not preform half of their function is obviously bad. It would be comparable to asking that PvP IOs no longer give PvP bonuses and instead be converted into PvE IOs on the reasoning that "most people who use them don't PvP anyway". It's bad logic and a bad idea.
Asking to have NEW sets added, avoiding the whole "invalidate entire sets of IOs" issue is probably a bit better. |
But from now on, I'll just stick to costume suggestions and interior design suggestions for bases. I don't know what I'm talking abut with the whole IO stuff. I'll leave it to the experts.
Triumph Lurker: mintmiki 50 emp/archer
basically, if you see a miki on Triumph, it's probably cute and it's probably me.
Huge thanks to cuppamanga and all the folks in the mac help forum for prolonging my borrowed time on this game.
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Please don't let this one thread stop you from making other suggestions. So this one idea didn't go over well. Big deal. Your next one, or the one after that could be a huge hit.|
Originally Posted by mintmiki
Thank you for that.
But from now on, I'll just stick to costume suggestions and interior design suggestions for bases. I don't know what I'm talking abut with the whole IO stuff. I'll leave it to the experts. |
Don't walk away thinking people hate your idea, but rather that you found a topic people care a great deal about.
I know this topic has been argued to death, but...
Reading a thread in the market gave me an idea.
Why not get rid of the PvE bonuses on PVP IOs and make them exclusively for PVP play. Then make the drop rate on them simliar to that of normal IO recipes. So you reclassify them with varying lvls of rarity (like pool A, B, and C). Likewise, you change the number of merits needed to purchase these recipes according to rarity making lesser rares like Panacea available for 2 merits and more prized Ios like the Teleportation Proc still worth 35. That way, the pricing becomes like PvE recipes.
Since we have 3 builds available now, it'll be easy for a player to make a build exclusively for PvP (esp. since everyone does this anyways).
One major reason Pvp is so awful on this game is because building a toon costs more than a lot of players can pull together.
It would be nice to be able to IO a pvp toon for 100 mil.
Triumph Lurker: mintmiki 50 emp/archer
basically, if you see a miki on Triumph, it's probably cute and it's probably me.
Huge thanks to cuppamanga and all the folks in the mac help forum for prolonging my borrowed time on this game.