Legality and Age for Media
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2011-01-06 20:06 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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Most times this is on tact with media storage, such as blank media (CD-R's, DVD+R, etc). While this is not the best tact in some cases it does circumvent the issues of record labels not getting their money for an album.|
Originally Posted by GibsonMcCoy
True, those would help a lot. So would people just buying stuff to begin with or leaving it be.
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Originally Posted by GibsonMcCoy
Ironically, the RIAA doesn't have a problem with me making a copy of a DVD I own and loaning it to friends.
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Link
Another article from a couuple years back stating new changes they wanted to make
Link, it has the PDF of what they imposed to the gov't to change on this.
Also the RIAA is trying to take down the Radiohead album "In Rainbows" even though it was release online for any cost you wanted. Link
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Originally Posted by GibsonMcCoy
It has a problem with me making 50 copies of a DVD I own & selling it, or giving it away to 100 people I don't know.
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Still thanks to these new media streams (digital downloads, youtube, etc) they have brought in new fans, and more ticket sales to their shows. I know I have found tonnes of new bands thanks to the digital age with sampling and testing out new music.
Also just to clarify a few points also...I do buy albums at concerts from the band themselves, and support them in any way possible (outside of Record label.) I have a large library of movies I have bought from wherever since I felt they were worth the purchase. Then my book library is ever increasing. While I do not buy like I did when I was a teen only a few years ago, my tastes have refined to spend my money more wisely and get something that I will enjoy as a whole, rather than only a small slice.
If some person downloaded a certain file, then there is a good chance that they wouldn't have even paid a cent to the company if it was only available for purchase. Therefore, the whole idea of companies losing money because of piracy is flawed since they would only lose some business due to piracy. There is also the issue of reselling. If I purchase a new car, then I can sell it to someone else. With downloads and computer games there is no value to the product. I can sell or give away old games to a friend, but some of the more recent ones I can't since they are attached to my account. Which is why I prefer businesses like Netflicks and official Online comics where you can watch or read as much as you want for a monthly fee.
The first step in being sane is to admit that you are insane.
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If you wanted it, and the only way to get it was to buy it, you would either buy it or do without.|
Originally Posted by starphoenix
If some person downloaded a certain file, then there is a good chance that they wouldn't have even paid a cent to the company if it was only available for purchase. Therefore, the whole idea of companies losing money because of piracy is flawed since they would only lose some business due to piracy. There is also the issue of reselling. If I purchase a new car, then I can sell it to someone else. With downloads and computer games there is no value to the product. I can sell or give away old games to a friend, but some of the more recent ones I can't since they are attached to my account. Which is why I prefer businesses like Netflicks and official Online comics where you can watch or read as much as you want for a monthly fee.
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******** argument is ********.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
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Interesting. I didn't know that. Thanks for the link.|
Originally Posted by Mylia
While this article is a few years old, I did find that the RIAA is not a fan of you cpoying it either for personal use:
[url=http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2007/12/riaa-those-cd-rips-of-yours-are-still-unauthorized.ars]Link[/link] |
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Still thanks to these new media streams (digital downloads, youtube, etc) they have brought in new fans, and more ticket sales to their shows. I know I have found tonnes of new bands thanks to the digital age with sampling and testing out new music. Also just to clarify a few points also...I do buy albums at concerts from the band themselves, and support them in any way possible (outside of Record label.) I have a large library of movies I have bought from wherever since I felt they were worth the purchase. Then my book library is ever increasing. While I do not buy like I did when I was a teen only a few years ago, my tastes have refined to spend my money more wisely and get something that I will enjoy as a whole, rather than only a small slice. |
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Wrong.|
Originally Posted by NinjaPirate
Incorrect.
Used Games purchased at stores such as GameStop are legal due to the First Sale Doctrine. This doctrine allows you to transfer the physical media you purchased legally to another person, so long as you transfer ALL materials associated with that media and do not keep a copy for yourself. Getting a torrented version of a video game is Copyright Violation, and illegal, because a COPY was made and distributed. There is a key difference there. -k |
He wasn't referring to the legality of it. He was saying that game makers don't make a dime from used games sold at game stop, and there for, as far as the developing companies is concerned, there is no difference between you buying from game stop, and downloading a torrent.
The statement wasn't that there was no difference in the eyes of the law, just in the eyes of the company. And there isn't, If I buy Red Dead Redemption used from Gamestop, Rockstar doesn't see a cent.
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker
I think the law ought to be changed to say that if an IP hasn't been used for profit in 10 years, it's no longer protected and be surrendered to public domain. For example, if I owned the rights to Windows 95, but I wasn't capitalizing on ownership by selling it, after 10 years they'd become unprotected and released to the public
I see an analogy in this system to our monopoly laws - Horizontal monopolies are illegal because they allow a company to inflate prices due to an artificial demand that they can create.
Of course, you could argue that Windows 95 has competitors in Linux or OSX or even later versions of Windows that destroy the analogy to a traditional monopoly (There's no real competitor to coal, for example) but I feel like the line we draw between what's competition and what isn't is pretty blurred.
There is a law like that Gorndt, but it was written well before the modern age of digital media and such AND also the laws as they are right now are more to keep all those mega corps entertainment industries from collapsing due to being unnecessary in the modern age. They have billions/trillions of dollars and can lobby to get their way...and the only thing we can do is what is morally right in our eyes and hope that we will be upheld in a court...even though though judges subvert juries and do not inform them of their proper rights and duties as a juror.
I believe things go into public domain 15 years after the owner dies or something like that. Obviously there are company issues and such that make those types of laws kinda dumb. Which speaking of... is why the Superman lawsuits are ridiculous... If Superman was/is still own by Siegal and Schuster the point at which it would have gone into public domain is long past...lost past even by the time of the original Superman movie if i remember right, and as such not only does DC not owe them anything, we as the public can make our own Superman stuff and sell it perfectly legally.
Btw... this is also why Disney has the "Disney Vault" BS... releasing it every 10 years keeps your copyright and keeps the value up, plus with our formats quickly changing they figure they can make a fortune...but we'll not be changing formats much more in the future so they sorta kicked themselves in the foot there...
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Durraken.... this is one of those places where you really need to say 'in my opinion.' You state it as a fact and are as wrong as wrong can be.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
I believe things go into public domain 15 years after the owner dies or something like that.
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The law is factual, it is not a matter of opinion.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade! Funny thing about this issue is that every single person arguing they should be allowed to download stuff for free would be screaming bloody murder if they were the writer who wasn't getting paid for the stuff they wrote/created.
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From Wiki:|
Originally Posted by Durakken
I believe things go into public domain 15 years after the owner dies or something like that. Obviously there are company issues and such that make those types of laws kinda dumb. Which speaking of... is why the Superman lawsuits are ridiculous... If Superman was/is still own by Siegal and Schuster the point at which it would have gone into public domain is long past...lost past even by the time of the original Superman movie if i remember right, and as such not only does DC not owe them anything, we as the public can make our own Superman stuff and sell it perfectly legally. |
"Expiration of copyright
The expiration of a copyright is more complex than that of a patent. Historically the United States has specified terms of a number of years following creation or publication; this number has been increased several times. Most other countries specify terms of a number of years following the death of the last surviving creator; this number varies from one country to another (50 years and 70 years are the most common), and has also been increased in many of them. See List of countries' copyright length. Legal traditions differ on whether a work in the public domain can have its copyright restored. Term extensions by the U.S. and Australia generally have not removed works from the public domain, but merely delayed the addition of works to it. By contrast, a European Union directive harmonizing the term of copyright protection was applied retroactively, restoring and extending the terms of copyright on material previously in the public domain."
Superman has been in constant publication since creation, afaik.
Also, the who owns Superman case isn't as cut and dried as that.
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
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"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
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Actually, this is one of those areas that you and whoever read it as this is 100% factual need to learn english.|
Originally Posted by Smersh
Durraken.... this is one of those places where you really need to say 'in my opinion.' You state it as a fact and are as wrong as wrong can be.
The law is factual, it is not a matter of opinion. |
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| I believe things go into public domain 15 years after the owner dies or something like that. |
I know there is a law like that. I don't know how it is stated exactly, or the time periods involved.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
Actually, this is one of those areas that you and whoever read it as this is 100% factual need to learn english.
Notice the bolded? Yeah... See I don't know what it is exactly any more because the law changes every now and then and I really don't care as other copyright laws, pretty much say, Bigger entity (company or individual) wins, regardless of any other law out there. I know there is a law like that. I don't know how it is stated exactly, or the time periods involved. |
My post took me all of 5 seconds to *research* before I posted.
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
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That's nice. Research wasn't necessary.
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Originally Posted by Furio
My post took me all of 5 seconds to *research* before I posted.
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Obviously it was, since you were wrong, and based your belief that the Superman lawsuit was ridiculous on that incorrect understanding of how public domain works in the US.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
That's nice. Research wasn't necessary.
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Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
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Disney doesnt really need the "Vault" to keep their IPs, by nature of just their theme parks and that pretty much every disney character or atleast pretty much one from every movie is marketed and walks around in the parks keeps the IPs as a for profit status. |
Originally Posted by Durakken
There is a law like that Gorndt, but it was written well before the modern age of digital media and such AND also the laws as they are right now are more to keep all those mega corps entertainment industries from collapsing due to being unnecessary in the modern age. They have billions/trillions of dollars and can lobby to get their way...and the only thing we can do is what is morally right in our eyes and hope that we will be upheld in a court...even though though judges subvert juries and do not inform them of their proper rights and duties as a juror.
I believe things go into public domain 15 years after the owner dies or something like that. Obviously there are company issues and such that make those types of laws kinda dumb. Which speaking of... is why the Superman lawsuits are ridiculous... If Superman was/is still own by Siegal and Schuster the point at which it would have gone into public domain is long past...lost past even by the time of the original Superman movie if i remember right, and as such not only does DC not owe them anything, we as the public can make our own Superman stuff and sell it perfectly legally. Btw... this is also why Disney has the "Disney Vault" BS... releasing it every 10 years keeps your copyright and keeps the value up, plus with our formats quickly changing they figure they can make a fortune...but we'll not be changing formats much more in the future so they sorta kicked themselves in the foot there... |
What the vault really does for Disney is keeps an item in a constant state of demand. Its pulled from the market, over those 10 years the demand goes back up as tapes wear out, discs get damaged etc. Disney's motives for agressive copyright control is because if the market was flooded with disney products on free download the re-issueing of the product is not going to be worth as much.
I know its kinda anti-internet, but frankly i dont really want the things i enjoy to go into public domain. I dont want any Tom, Dick, or Harry with investors to be able to make a star wars movie, or use Disney characters or superman comics etc. All that would happen is every popular character that goes into public domain is gonna be flooded with source materials of questionable quality until the market for that character is dead and even the original Copyright holders give up on making a profit from it anylonger. I really dont want 5 different Boba Fett movies released in 2 years from 4 different production companies, which is exactly what we know would happen.
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The Superman lawsuit IS ridiculous.|
Originally Posted by Furio
Obviously it was, since you were wrong, and based your belief that the Superman lawsuit was ridiculous on that incorrect understanding of how public domain works in the US.
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Your usage of the word "understanding" is wrong.
I was wrong about what the current time period before a copyright goes to public domain is, which it is clear I'm not certain of. I also mention before you replied (though it is posted right after) that the law has changed and I don't care to keep tabs on it with how much it changes around copyright.
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There hasn't been a copyright term in the US anywhere close to 15 years since before your great-grandmother was born; this is not a case of the law getting updated on you.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
The Superman lawsuit IS ridiculous.
Your usage of the word "understanding" is wrong. I was wrong about what the current time period before a copyright goes to public domain is, which it is clear I'm not certain of. I also mention before you replied (though it is posted right after) that the law has changed and I don't care to keep tabs on it with how much it changes around copyright. |
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!
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Originally Posted by Durakken
The Superman lawsuit IS ridiculous.
Your usage of the word "understanding" is wrong. I was wrong about what the current time period before a copyright goes to public domain is, which it is clear I'm not certain of. I also mention before you replied (though it is posted right after) that the law has changed and I don't care to keep tabs on it with how much it changes around copyright. |
Oh? You put forth an incorrect idea (or understanding) of how copyright/public domain works in the US, followed by a statement that the Superman lawsuit is ridiculous because you believe it would have entered public domain by now. Since that's the only justification you give, any reader would believe that you're basically saying "The lawsuit is ridiculous because the character should already be public domain"
Since things do not enter public domain in the US they way you thought, your stated reason (the only one I can go on) that the lawsuit is ridiculous is not based in any kind of fact, so you can't just say "is so!" as a justification.
What I don't understand is why you would put forth an opinion and then in the same breath say you're not interested enough in the details surrounding it to bother looking things up....especially when you're already at a computer.
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Funny thing about this issue is that every single person arguing they should be allowed to download stuff for free would be screaming bloody murder if they were the writer who wasn't getting paid for the stuff they wrote/created.
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This exactly. Well said, Forbin!
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It's 2011. You should automatically assume your work will be shared on the internet. If it's not, it's because no one likes it.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Funny thing about this issue is that every single person arguing they should be allowed to download stuff for free would be screaming bloody murder if they were the writer who wasn't getting paid for the stuff they wrote/created.
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The best thing you can do is give it to them direct from the source, your own website. That allows you to connect to the fans without any middlemen and maybe actually make some money.
You do not deserve to get paid for making something, you deserve to get paid if you can get someone to pay you for making something.
If you cannot make money making something because of piracy, you do not deserve to make money.
You will inevitably get what you deserve, because you deserve what you get.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Funny thing about this issue is that every single person arguing they should be allowed to download stuff for free would be screaming bloody murder if they were the writer who wasn't getting paid for the stuff they wrote/created.
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Originally Posted by Vox Populi
It's 2011. You should automatically assume your work will be shared on the internet. If it's not, it's because no one likes it.
The best thing you can do is give it to them direct from the source, your own website. That allows you to connect to the fans without any middlemen and maybe actually make some money. |
Link
It is your choice on what you do in your life, but there is positives and negative to everything in life. Also I still will stand by my point is that the entire copyright laws need to be overhauled.
Also this interesting study that was done by Industry Canada:
Link
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You deserve not to have your work stolen because some spoiled brat doesn't want to pay for it instead of saving their pennies to buy it.|
Originally Posted by ShadeovBlack
You do not deserve to get paid for making something, you deserve to get paid if you can get someone to pay you for making something.
If you cannot make money making something because of piracy, you do not deserve to make money. You will inevitably get what you deserve, because you deserve what you get. |
*You* do not deserve free stuff.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!
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No. Anyone who read what I said and wasn't trying to pick a fight would know that I disagree with the entirety of copyright law and that there are many things wrong with it that lead to ridiculous law suits. You must forgive me for expecting people to read and understand based on the full context of what I wrote and not pick at little things that are not relevant to the topic. |
Originally Posted by Furio
Oh? You put forth an incorrect idea (or understanding) of how copyright/public domain works in the US, followed by a statement that the Superman lawsuit is ridiculous because you believe it would have entered public domain by now. Since that's the only justification you give, any reader would believe that you're basically saying "The lawsuit is ridiculous because the character should already be public domain"
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| Since things do not enter public domain in the US they way you thought, your stated reason (the only one I can go on) that the lawsuit is ridiculous is not based in any kind of fact, so you can't just say "is so!" as a justification. |
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| What I don't understand is why you would put forth an opinion and then in the same breath say you're not interested enough in the details surrounding it to bother looking things up....especially when you're already at a computer. |
Ironically, the RIAA doesn't have a problem with me making a copy of a DVD I own and loaning it to friends. It has a problem with me making 50 copies of a DVD I own & selling it, or giving it away to 100 people I don't know.