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Contacting inactive players is a good marketing strategy in general, but this approach could be taken as holding a ray gun to the character names. A carrot-and-stick approach is defintely better, but the emphasis would be better on a free reactivation pass - especially coinciding with an anniversary, or a new issue, or an in-game event - with the warning that names will expire in X-months without a log-in. (And avoiding a "Great Name Rush" would make for fewer C/S headaches.)
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Originally Posted by Ascendant
Actually, now that I think about it, here's a better idea: same deal, but you individually get contacted two weeks (or whatever) before your second year anniversary of quitting the game, instead of an arbitrary purge date that applies to everyone out of the game for more than two (or whatever) years.. Two weeks after that, if you haven't indicated an interest in preserving your characters, your names become open. This keeps the opportunity for previously held names to become available, but also stops the "Great Name Rush" that would normally be associated with scheduled purges, and make names naturally recycled into the game.
Also, the "Hey, your names are about to go away" email is also an excellent opportunity for NCSoft to offer a player-only 7 or 14 day reactivation pass and make a case for rejoining the game to take advantage of the stuff that's been introduced in the past 2 years. |
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The reason I would be upset is not so much because I don't get the name I want. It's because the interests of someone who is not paying for the game gets placed ahead of the interests of someone who IS (me, in this case). In that sense, it is a matter of entitlement.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I have never understood this position. You're saying if you can't get the name you want you'd be upset, unless you knew for certain it was taken by an active player, in which case you don't care as much. In effect, this implies the issue is not a character naming issue at all, but an entitlement issue.
For me, this whole topic boils down to this: only one player can have a name. If you want it and an inactive player has it, the notion that freeing it will mean you can have it is spurious at best: most likely if it is a popularly sought name it only means someone else will get it, not you. Only if its a name that you and one other person, ever wanted is it likely you'd get it in a purge. Whether we purge names or not is not a question of choosing one player over another, one paying and one not. For every player that returns and finds all his characters names messed with, that one player is going to tell others, and others. I acknowledge that the same thing is true for players that can't get the names they want. But we can avoid the purge problem entirely by simply not doing it. We cannot avoid the name-frustration problem at all because purges don't solve it. The calculus of that tells me that purges are not a good idea for the game as a whole, and this is a decision that should be based on the game as a whole. |
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Have you cancelled your account/terminated renewal because you were unable to name your character along the lines you'd hoped for? That's the only kind of example of this game arguably putting the interests of a former subscriber over a current one. And affecting NC Soft's bottom line is the only surefire way to get their attention (admittedly, this will have to be from more than a handful of individuals).
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Originally Posted by Ultimo_
The reason I would be upset is not so much because I don't get the name I want. It's because the interests of someone who is not paying for the game gets placed ahead of the interests of someone who IS (me, in this case).
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
While I certainly understand that conclusion, I think it is based on the unfortunate hyperbolic argument that always accompanies these discussions.
It started with the O.P. citing the extreme difficulties of finding names. And continues with the responses to that notion. And a logical conclusion becomes that the issue is a matter of entitlement and brings potential negatives over any benefits. However, it is much more simple than that. This game has a unique/character naming system per server and names get tied up on long dormant accounts, some that are so long dormant they never had a global named attached to them. We are all familiar with the large amounts of players who come and go and never return in this industry. Your logical conclusion against a purge (due to its inherent sense of entitlement issue) is to account for the sense of entitlement of a hypothetical long inactive re-subscriber, who needs to rename one (or more) of their characters (because of their long 2+ years lapse in subscription [and possibly did not heed, see any information of such a thing happening to their account, so as to be prevent or be prepared for such an event]) who then spreads ill words about the game from that vantage point, which then results in negative publicity for the game overall. I am not convinced that is truly the greatest conclusion. It could be seen as a simple aspect of desired data for a trivial pastime that can be recycled based on subscription to the product. |
I've been here since practically release, and I've seen uncountable numbers of reactivation weekends bring back players, and players just plain come back. I know this number is non-trivial, especially because they are explicitly targeted by NCSoft.
Given that I know it is a problem, the only question for me is whether its worth it to create a problem just to mitigate an existing problem by likely just a few percent. And if I was in charge, the answer would be an unambiguous "no." That's the default position: to change my mind you would have to convince me that the problem being created is definitely lower in magnitude than the small part of the problem being mitigated. And I don't see how that is likely, given what's been said in the past about the numbers of names freed in previous purges.
Basically, I can prove purges create a problem, and I can prove purges don't solve a problem. So that's a bad thing by default without proof the trade is a good one for the game which I cannot prove, nor have I seen a valid proof of.
I'm not saying I'm opposed to a purge because I don't believe people are entitled to those names. I'm opposed to a purge because I believe it creates image problems. I believe the entitlement argument has no value as counter to that.
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They were a paying customer when they got the name before you. That was the only moment their interests were considered. At this moment, its not your interests weighed against that of a non-playing player. Its your interests weighed against that of NCSoft wanting the option to reattract a prior player. And their interest in the name outweighs yours.
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Originally Posted by Ultimo_
The reason I would be upset is not so much because I don't get the name I want. It's because the interests of someone who is not paying for the game gets placed ahead of the interests of someone who IS (me, in this case). In that sense, it is a matter of entitlement.
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Especially from a business stand point, subscriptions take precedence... not cosmetics.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Whether we purge names or not is not a question of choosing one player over another, one paying and one not.
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But you see, this is my point. As was pointed out, they can't afford to lose customers over something like this. I'm paying for my subscription. KEEPING that income is more important than hoping someone that stopped paying might pay again at some point.|
Originally Posted by Stryph
Especially from a business stand point, subscriptions take precedence... not cosmetics.
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Granted, I'm unlikely to stop playing over this, but that doesn't guarantee no one will. A bird in the hand, and all that. You have to consider the interests of your PAYING customers before you consider the interests of anyone who MIGHT pay.
But then, that's just my opinion.
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Until NC Soft shells out for a proper focus group study that tells them they can expect a significant number of players leaving because of name issues, prudent business sense dictates that they shouldn't risk alienating potential returning customers - which, to reiterate, MMOs love - when they already have invested in the previously mentioned new features. It's a bottom line issue, nothing more or less.
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How about "If I jump to that new MMO that just came out I can grab the name I want." I mean, I've done it.
Anyway you're leaving out party #3. Players who are totally new, who come here to find a nearly 7 year old game where many desirable names are unavailable, where they aren't on the competitors product.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I've been here since practically release, and I've seen uncountable numbers of reactivation weekends bring back players, and players just plain come back. I know this number is non-trivial, especially because they are explicitly targeted by NCSoft.
Given that I know it is a problem, the only question for me is whether its worth it to create a problem just to mitigate an existing problem by likely just a few percent. And if I was in charge, the answer would be an unambiguous "no." That's the default position: to change my mind you would have to convince me that the problem being created is definitely lower in magnitude than the small part of the problem being mitigated. And I don't see how that is likely, given what's been said in the past about the numbers of names freed in previous purges. Basically, I can prove purges create a problem, and I can prove purges don't solve a problem. So that's a bad thing by default without proof the trade is a good one for the game which I cannot prove, nor have I seen a valid proof of. I'm not saying I'm opposed to a purge because I don't believe people are entitled to those names. I'm opposed to a purge because I believe it creates image problems. I believe the entitlement argument has no value as counter to that. |
Lots of other games have had purges of various sizes. There are pros and cons and ultimately no one really wins this argument. Of the characters I've left behind on various surviving MMOs, some still have their names, some don't, and some were wiped out completely. It's hard to be upset that a business I haven't sent money to in over two years, in some cases longer, wants to maintain its current players.
Obscure Fracas for a Dark/Super Reflexes, Troimille Ile for a Radation/Electricity, Secular Energy for an Energy/Enery, Tempered Energies for a Shield/Kinetic Melee, Erda (I was surprised to get this one), Hypothermie, an Invulnerability/Ice Melee tank, who will kill you so slowly that you'll be surprised that you died. You could have prevented it at any time, but by the time you realize what's going on, it's too late. I haven't decided if she has a French or a German accent. Maybe I should split the difference and go for Swiss or Belgian.
Okay, so Dark Knight is taken. Maybe Der Dunkle Ritter would work. Or Ritter ohne Furcht, Fürchterlich Ritter. You could go to "The Somber Cavalier" or "The Sombre Chevalier".
Cavalier Obscura, Cavalier d'nuit... I don't know. There are options here. Mix and match languages, that's the way english works anyway.
I have honestly never had a name that I wanted and not gotten. There have been times I've been lazy and didn't want to spend time on a name, and when I try things like Marcus or Bob, they're taken, but just about everything else, I get on the first try.
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If NC Soft were to fund a CoH focus group of new players, I'd wager that it would discover the 7-year-old tutorial and starting zones present more of a stumbling block than choosing the right name among a dozen servers. (It's worth noting that although several servers have name exchange threads on their subforums, not all seem to need them.) That said, we can't discuss the assorted ways competitors approach the issue of character names because of the ill-advised new forum rules, which leaves that debate even more abstract than the name purge one underway.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Anyway you're leaving out party #3. Players who are totally new, who come here to find a nearly 7 year old game where many desirable names are unavailable, where they aren't on the competitors product.
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Originally Posted by Ultimo_
Granted, I'm unlikely to stop playing over this, but that doesn't guarantee no one will.
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That's right, and no one has demonstrated to me that subscriptions would be helped in net by a purge. You're going to lose customers either way. You're going to gain customers either way. My position on the default action to take in that situation remains the same.|
Originally Posted by Stryph
Especially from a business stand point, subscriptions take precedence... not cosmetics.
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Its easy to speak theoretically, when the responsibility for success or failure is not singularly yours, with customers and jobs on the line. I'm saying if it was my decision to make, with customers and jobs on the line, I would choose not to purge. That's a calculated business decision given the facts currently at my disposal.
NCSoft may have other facts at their disposal. They may have a better idea of the percentage of players they can eventually hook back after an extended leave. They may have a better idea of how many of them complain about having names purged or reassigned, relative to the number of customers they retained immediately following a purge relative to the average. My guess is that if the numbers were strongly favorable, they would maintain the purge. That they do not suggests to me that no such evidence exists. So if past purges did help subscription numbers, it must be by an amount too small to statistically measure.
In any case, what I'm asserting is that given the information I have, I would not only not support a purge, I would actively decide not to purge. That decision is based primarily on the presumption that a purge will not positively increase subscriptions. If someone can demonstrate that it will with a high degree of certainty, I would likely change my mind. If someone wants to say that decision is unfair, I'm prepared to concede that its unfair right now and say its irrelevant to my position. For me fairness is only relevant when it involves things players have a reasonable expectation of having. There is no reasonable expectation of having a previously taken name. *Why* its not available to them is no longer a question of fairness to me. Remember: non-paying customers do not have those names. NCSoft has those names.
Keep in mind also that I'm not saying this is NCSoft's position or line of thought. I'm saying its mine: this is what I would do if it was my decision to make, and I would be making it purely on the basis of what is best for the long-term future of the game.
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This "problem" is based on a set of preconceived notions: that character names must be distinct. Given the global @names now available, I don't see why that needs to be true any longer.
There's some code that'll need to be done (so if you '/tell FiveGuys, Hey' it sends you back a list of the globals the 5 different toons named FiveGuys are). Ditto for mail, though I don't know that much anyone uses it other than to mail themselves or their friends cash/IOs/recipies. Possibly an option to display the global name under a character's name.
None of said code is particularly difficult to implement.
Poof, problem solved!
It does mean you're potentially less anonymous than before (people can track you across characters) but given the amount of globals running around chat channels, I ask 'so what?'
It also just shifts the contention to "I can't get a good global name" but since that's basically a 1 or 2-shot pick to get yours and since it doesn't need to "fit the character" that seems fairly reasonable. Also, the contention is a lot less -- you don't have people with 36 accounts like you do with character slots. Nor do you have people making alts on other servers to reserve 'their name' just in case.
Side-benefit: there's now no "political" hurdle with combining servers and/or going serverless.
Signed,
Someone annoyed he lost the name he got on Pinnacle when his friends group largely moved their play time to Liberty and he tried to transfer his main.
PS: I'm part of the problem: I recaptured the name on Pinnacle. Thanks for asking.
Just as a small, small anecdotal point, I only recently came back to the game after two years. I resubbed for a month a couple of times in that period, but I could just as easily not have. I've got a few neat names on some lowbies I hadn't had the motivation to level two years ago but couldn't bear to delete, and finding them purged would have been seriously disappointing. Maybe not disappointing enough to leave again, but everyone's situation is different.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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There's lots of reasons why Global@Local isn't a magic solution to the problem. Noteworthy among them is that not everyone likes that naming convention: there's every reason to believe at least as many people dislike that convention than dislike having to hunt for a unique local name.|
Originally Posted by Rhysem
This "problem" is based on a set of preconceived notions: that character names must be distinct. Given the global @names now available, I don't see why that needs to be true any longer.
There's some code that'll need to be done (so if you '/tell FiveGuys, Hey' it sends you back a list of the globals the 5 different toons named FiveGuys are). Ditto for mail, though I don't know that much anyone uses it other than to mail themselves or their friends cash/IOs/recipies. Possibly an option to display the global name under a character's name. None of said code is particularly difficult to implement. Poof, problem solved! It does mean you're potentially less anonymous than before (people can track you across characters) but given the amount of globals running around chat channels, I ask 'so what?' It also just shifts the contention to "I can't get a good global name" but since that's basically a 1 or 2-shot pick to get yours and since it doesn't need to "fit the character" that seems fairly reasonable. Also, the contention is a lot less -- you don't have people with 36 accounts like you do with character slots. Nor do you have people making alts on other servers to reserve 'their name' just in case. Side-benefit: there's now no "political" hurdle with combining servers and/or going serverless. Signed, Someone annoyed he lost the name he got on Pinnacle when his friends group largely moved their play time to Liberty and he tried to transfer his main. PS: I'm part of the problem: I recaptured the name on Pinnacle. Thanks for asking. |
Separate from the technical and economic issues, I personally find that solution sufficiently ugly that I would consider striking someone that suggested it on my development team.
If someone really likes that solution, they are free to *name* their characters that. I would be more than happy to go to bat to get the name field lengthened to make that possible.
And on a separate, personal level, although its not difficult to figure out who I am in-game when I'm playing, its still the case that I would rather not go around playing as Arcanaville@Character. I would change globals instead, and with that eliminate the ability for people to PM me in-game unless they knew me personally. Not might: would. As it is I sometimes log into a second account and play just so I can turn off chat completely. I was strongly opposed to the devs adding global transparency in the first place.
In any case, except for length issues, since people can put prefixes on their names now, anyone who thinks this is a good idea can do it already. There's nothing at all gained by making everyone do it.
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
If NC Soft were to fund a CoH focus group of new players, I'd wager that it would discover the 7-year-old tutorial and starting zones present more of a stumbling block than choosing the right name among a dozen servers. (It's worth noting that although several servers have name exchange threads on their subforums, not all seem to need them.) That said, we can't discuss the assorted ways competitors approach the issue of character names because of the ill-advised new forum rules, which leaves that debate even more abstract than the name purge one underway.
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This isn't a factor in whether a name purge is a good or bad idea, its just something that "is." (Except it "isn't," because the tutorial was redone for GR, but nevermind that). It would be like arguing that adding new powersets isn't a good idea because the new player might pick an old ugly one. Or that new arcs shouldn't be created because the player might end up experiencing one of the sucky ones.
While we can't provide specifics of how each individual MMO has handled this question, the fact is that this game is not the first to wrestle with this question. Various games have come to various conclusions and ultimately the most anyone can say about it is there are good and bad things about name wipe policies. The only thing about this game that might give it a slight bit of breathing room is that a name like Pizza Guy Doug is totally acceptable here but wouldn't be in most fantasy games, where the name-crush can be a lot more extreme.
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I agree, I made a post like this once before, I still think they should do something, there many people coming up with crap like XxxNight ManxxX or something. I mean it time they do something about, but my guess they won't sigh.
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Originally Posted by GreySquirrel
Its getting harder and harder to get names that don't require odd punctuation or deliberate misspellings and the like. I know in one channel I'm in I've heard no less than twenty people complaining about it this week alone. The game has been around for 6 years now. Thing is, the vast majority of the good names were taken within the first two. Now, of course, first come, first serve is fair, but I think its about time to release some of the older names that aren't played anymore.
Right now the policy is: "Names for characters below level 6 on game retail accounts that were inactive* for over 90 days were changed to unreserved status. This means that those names became available for new character names if picked by an active (subscribed) player." We've had two rounds of temporary availability (if I recall correctly) and the last one was just shortly after I started playing, about 3 years ago. EDIT: Apparently the forums have informed me that I joined in October of 2006, so it was about a year after I joined. I hate time. So I'm just interested in what others think on this subject. Personally, I'd like to see all names inactive for 2 years or more, regardless of the level, become available for current subscribers. Two years is more than enough time, I think for someone to decide to come back, and if they haven't, I think that's a good indication that NCSoft should be catering to current subscribers rather than past ones. |
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Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
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This would factor in whatever decision NCSoft makes, however, when it comes time to devote their resources to improving the game for beginning players. The name purge, whether bad idea or good in the abstract, seems like a minor request in a practical context, especially when there are bigger challenges to address. (And GR's truly superb new tutorial and starting missions make the old Outbreak and Atlas Park/Galaxy City missions look that much creakier.) NCSoft has to make a business decision, one that balances their interests with their customers', both current and past, when deciding whether to implement a name purge or assign their staff to projects elsewhere.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
This isn't a factor in whether a name purge is a good or bad idea, its just something that "is." (Except it "isn't," because the tutorial was redone for GR, but nevermind that). It would be like arguing that adding new powersets isn't a good idea because the new player might pick an old ugly one. Or that new arcs shouldn't be created because the player might end up experiencing one of the sucky ones.
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Incidentally, as long as there's speculation about stealth name purges going on behind the scenes (a debatable proposition, but one thing at a time), could it be perchance that CoH allows "good names" to be held indefinitely in order to surreptitiously promote more even server population distributions? If someone has really, really set their heart on being "Night Man", surely they will first consider heading to another, less populated server to secure it rather than pick up a thesaurus (or use an online superhero name generator) and try something different?
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Ohh, conspiracy theory.... nice! Where is Championess when you need her?
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Incidentally, as long as there's speculation about stealth name purges going on behind the scenes (a debatable proposition, but one thing at a time), could it be perchance that CoH allows "good names" to be held indefinitely in order to surreptitiously promote more even server population distributions? If someone has really, really set their heart on being "Night Man", surely they will first consider heading to another, less populated server to secure it rather than pick up a thesaurus (or use an online superhero name generator) and try something different?
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GR's tutorial is shinier, but the mechanics are exactly the same as the older two. I haven't heard of anyone who's had a problem with a tutorial in a long while; they're extremely simple, and as long as you actually read the tutorial, they tell you everything you need.|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
This would factor in whatever decision NCSoft makes, however, when it comes time to devote their resources to improving the game for beginning players. The name purge, whether bad idea or good in the abstract, seems like a minor request in a practical context, especially when there are bigger challenges to address. (And GR's truly superb new tutorial and starting missions make the old Outbreak and Atlas Park/Galaxy City missions look that much creakier.) NCSoft has to make a business decision, one that balances their interests with their customers', both current and past, when deciding whether to implement a name purge or assign their staff to projects elsewhere.
Incidentally, as long as there's speculation about stealth name purges going on behind the scenes (a debatable proposition, but one thing at a time), could it be perchance that CoH allows "good names" to be held indefinitely in order to surreptitiously promote more even server population distributions? If someone has really, really set their heart on being "Night Man", surely they will first consider heading to another, less populated server to secure it rather than pick up a thesaurus (or use an online superhero name generator) and try something different? |
If they are doing a stealth purge, which I doubt, they have very very odd criteria for it, since many names taken very early are not purged and many names selected later have come free. More likely, those players just deleted their characters, either to start over, or to quit cleanly.
As for the matter of a superhero name generator (even though its completely off topic), since its been suggested a few times, I went to test it out. I have an idea for a character who manipulates time around herself (I have a name already, its Chronoflect). So I went and let the generator run off some names.
First 25: Affection Freeze / Androcrucifixion / Bash Crucifix / Cleric Wrestler / Clonetrickster / Cobalt Crucifixion / Decay Spinner / Extracker / Fatal Rot / Flymorph / Hex Fissure / Interfacevore / Judge Detonation / Machinery Rubber / Matter Counter / Menaceflora / Mind Voice / Mineral Jewel / Minister Photoeta / Mister Deathflora / Saint Heaven / Scimtar Tracker / Silicon Dirt / Sunbot / Ultrasearcher
Second 25: Amethystelectrocutioner / Android Program / Bloody Cutter / Breath Mineral / Burner-slayer / Chrome Howl / Crow Walker / Emperor Hookfatality / Find Electrocutioner / Funerarydove / Game Guard / General Eat / Highwayhero / King Destroyer / Knucklebull / Lockshivering / Metasentry / Obsidian Rain / Rawhideess / Rippereta / Sanctum Punch / Sherriff Dart / Sister Six / Slayer-hero / Small Axe
(I did 8 more lists, but I don't want to spam an entire wall of text, and there wasn't much deviation from the theme.)
One name out of 50 is even -usuable- for the concept (Sister Six), and it comes nowhere close to being relevant (and its taken anyway!). Most of the others are at best joke names (and I'm not big on making joke characters, although I do enjoy seeing them). A couple won't fit in the space available for names. Some of them don't even make sense, such as Find Electrocutioner. Really? I've always wanted to play a hero who's super-power was finding State Prison employees. -__- This generator also has a bit of a fixation of crucifixes and electrocution, which leads me to wonder if the creator of it isn't slightly more death-happy than is quite normal. Having investigated, I can only conclude that name generators aren't going to give you a good name, except possibly on accident. Not that that should be a surprise.
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Who said anything about conspiracy theorizing? I'm merely proposing an entirely unsupported hypothesis.|
Originally Posted by Diggis
Ohh, conspiracy theory.... nice! Where is Championess when you need her?
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/doffs tinfoil top hat
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And I can 'prove' just the opposite. Its all a matter of which numbers you want to invent in order to use as a base for your maths. There is no database to pull real numbers from. So until NCSoft releases that information, we'd all be better off staying away from this area. There's no way to prove or disprove that something would or wouldn't be a good decision based on business principles without having a valid basis with which to calculate from. I'm perfectly happy to debate the subject of the thread, though.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Basically, I can prove purges create a problem, and I can prove purges don't solve a problem. So that's a bad thing by default without proof the trade is a good one for the game which I cannot prove, nor have I seen a valid proof of.
I'm not saying I'm opposed to a purge because I don't believe people are entitled to those names. I'm opposed to a purge because I believe it creates image problems. I believe the entitlement argument has no value as counter to that. |
As for the second part of that, I'm intrigued as to what type of image problem would be inherent to a name release. As stated before, from the sample evidence we have of gamers who have left for a long while and come back, they simply wouldn't care if their names were released. Players currently playing seem to be for it in a firm majority (again a majority of a small sample, but it is what we have). Future players would certainly not mind having more names, I would think. I've certainly never heard any complaints in any MMO I've played in regards to new players having too many names to choose from.
Its sounds like possibly I'm missing something there related to a possible effect to image, though, so I'll await enlightenment.
P.S. I may have failed in making that last line not snarky. So in advance, my apologies; its not indended that way. Its late in the day though, and my brain is shot.
The world is crazy. I offer this as proof; found on a butane lighter: Warning: Flame may cause fire.
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I believe that squirrels are taking up many older names as well. Don't tell anyone.
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Who said anything about conspiracy theorizing? I'm merely proposing an entirely unsupported hypothesis.
/doffs tinfoil top hat |
The world is crazy. I offer this as proof; found on a butane lighter: Warning: Flame may cause fire.
You can sleep when you die.
I am not convinced that is truly the greatest conclusion.
Until NC Soft shells out for a proper focus group study that tells them they can expect a significant number of players leaving because of name issues, prudent business sense dictates that they shouldn't risk alienating potential returning customers - which, to reiterate, MMOs love - when they already have invested in the previously mentioned new features. It's a bottom line issue, nothing more or less.
* I am unconvinced by the implicit quantity theory of superhero naming.