Confused about Arachnos.

Hi all. I'm confused about the Epic Arachnos Archetypes. Here's why I'm confused about them and hope someone can unconfuse me.

I unlocked them a few days ago and from what I see, they look like a regular archetype that you could probably come close to duplicating on some standard Archetypes. For example the Widows look like you would use the Stalker Archetype with Claws and Ninjitsu to make something kinda similar. Granted it wouldn't be a carbon copy, but close enough to play and have fun with it.

The real confusing thing though is how the Villain contact Kalinda has dialogue that talks about being handpicked to be a destined one or a chosen one. With that in mind, why are the Arachnos Archetypes considered an Epic Archetype and not a specialized career path through Kalinda?

This being an MMORPG in a sense, has me looking at it in a way the Dev's probably didn't. The way Kalinda talks and how the Arachnos contact puts it, has me thinking players who choose her ,were hand picked to join Arachnos. Meaning simply that. The players who choose her would be given tests on Mercy Island as a sort of "Basic Training" styled thing to get into Arachnos. Then at a certain lvl you would choose a career path that would best suit the Archetype you picked. Like Stalkers for the Blood widows with claws, or Brutes for the Crab and Bane spiders as examples.

Anyone able to give me a better idea on why they went the Epic route, instead of a specialized career path route with those? Personally I'd rather break outta the prison and talk to kalinda about joining Arachnos. Then do missions and unlock the costumes for them that way ,but that's just me.

Which i'm actually gonna try and do once i get a Wolf Spider costume I like for an Assault Rifle corrupter. I'll just need to look at a good secondary for it.

As I understand it, "Destined Ones" are not arachnos soldiers. In fact, Arachnos Soldiers by definition cannot be "destined ones" and must therefor fiddle with fate to get on the "list."

The first mission from the Arachnos Soldier/Widow contact has ou screwing with some files to get your name on a list. You aren't supposed to be on it.

The main difference between them and other ATs is the availability of ranged attacks and significant built-in defense on the same character. (in other words, you can attack at range and don't have to dip into IOs and Pool Powers to get defense)

Yes, you can have a Claws/Ninjitsu stalker that is sort of similar, but when have you ever seen one that has a full attack chain of ranged Psionic attacks?

The "base" of those ATs is not all they do. You get 2 more paths with each that you can go down to become more than a stalker or AR blaster could ever be.

Bane Spiders have an Arachnos Mace that gives them a number of mace attacks and can be used to fire ranged blasts.

Fortunatas have Psionic powers and usually fight mostly at range, but still have all the defenses they had before.

Arachnos ATs combine high defense, toxic damage (for some branches), Psi damage (for Widows), a mix of ranged and melee capabilities, a mix of control and damage dealing, all while providing strong buffs to the team. While the features available in the ATs are available in other ATs, they are available in mixes that cannot be replicated by any other AT. You can build a VEAT that looks like a Stalker or Dominator, for example, but you cannot build a Stalker to buff teammates the way a VEAT can, a Dominator to have the defenses a Fortunata has, etc.

Crab spiders cab be built to be all kinds of things. They are the Tank Mages or melee or MM's with 6 pets while at the same time providing team buffs and good damage.

My badger/main character these days is my Crab Spider. I have her set up with a series of ranged/AoE attacks along with a few melee but basically I have set her up as a Blaster. Okay so you ask what is the difference?

1. Between her own natural abilities coupled with the accolades I have earned she has about the same amount of hit points as a Scrapper. So unlike any Blaster in game she can take more damage without dying

2. DE----- FENSE! (lol) The armor I have along with the Tactical auras I have provide me, along with team mates that are close enough, with defense against almost every known type of attack including holds, immobs, fears, etc. There isn't a Blaster, Defender, Corruptor or Dominator alive that has this much defense and now that I have my Alpha Slot filled she's added another 20% which gives her defense some tanks would envy (NO not STONE tanks ).

3. Pets.. I can summon 3 spiderlings, 2 Arachnobot Disruptors and 1 Arachnobot Blaster. Granted each only lasts about 4 minutes but with all three available there is never a time when I can't have out at least one set adding to my damage output. So along with the ability to do damage and buff I am also a wanna-be Master mind with an array of minions.

4. DAMAGE ... Okay unlike the classic blaster I don't have a Long Range Sniper attack but I have a ton of others that allow me to put out close to 1200 HP on damage just running through my attack chain once and that doesn't include the damage my pets may be causing. Add in several immobs (Web grenades and Wide Area Wen Grenades) for some lockdown and my Venom Grenades which debuff and the overall effect can be devastating.

As mentioned we do get our own storyline and don't even have to process through the "Breakout" tutorial at level one. The Contacts provide short arcs that aid in leveling and even provide you with the chance to get a 2nd outfit as early as level 10 (Since you get only limited options on your first).. Don't get too excited. Yes overall we can have 6 costumes with the addition of halloween salvage but the 6th ends up being a mirrior or the 1st and you have almost no way to access it. Once you hit level 45 and complete all the story arcs from you Patron ( including defeating Recluse) you get one more mission as a "Destined One" and find yourself in Atlas Park where you get to defeat Statesman. NO other AT gets that opportunity one on one.... well at least not SO FAR

Personally, because I have the option for both, I think the VEATS were better designed and much more fun to play than the HEATS. Regardless of what path you chose you have plenty of options.. You can easily have a dual build with one Bane Spider and one Crab or one Fortunata and one Night Widow. Even inside those choices you get more. I set up my crab as a Blaster with a few melee attacks for anything close but you could set up a crab as a melee character just as easily with a few long ranged attacks to either pull mobs to you OR take out that one mob member running away (without having a foot race).

Thank you for the feed back. It looks like I need to go read about Arachnos to find the answer on why they couldn't have been a specialized career choice. Like i was saying how Kalinda could be an Arachnos Recruiter and then at a certain lvl you would "choose to join Arachnos". Which would put you with the Arachnos power sets as a Specialized Career path.

The initial contact mission could have been done like I was suggesting. Instead of already being in Arachnos. They would be recruiting from all the folks breaking outta the Zig.

With how they have to respec anyways at a certain lvl as an Epic. You would still do that as a "Specialized Career" because you joined them. That's when the costume and other stuff would unlock.

Does that make any sense as having it more as a story based thing, instead of already being in Arachnos? So basically there is no moving up with in the Organization. Llike how the real world military is where you get recruited and then have to work your way up.

But hey thanks for all the info. Now when can we get the Longbow version?

It's been a while since I did the initial content for my VEATs but I never got the impression that Kalinda was treating me the same way. As I recall I had a totally different initial contact who provided the story that I was very miffed at all these upstart punks just waltzing in to Arachnos territory as favourites of Recluse, and I wanted to get in on that action. The early missions had me running around trying to get my name on the Destined One list, and this all seemed reasonable enough to me, and provides for a mechanism to fit me in to all the other content in the game without having to rewrite all the dialogue trees.

Then again, I have noticed that Kalinda is a bit bugged in other respects. Maybe you talked to her when you weren't supposed to and she gave you her initial contact speech? She gave me that when I came across with a Praetorian and wanted to do my cape mission. Before I could do my cape mission I had to do the "Take out Operative Burch" mission. Very surreal having level 20+ longbow in there, but Burch and his contact were still level 4.

Just saying, there's no way a Stalker can offer a team 22% DEF and ToHit with 30% DMG.

Each VEAT also buffs the team. That means widows are Stalkers + Corruptors. And Fortunatas are Dominators + Corruptors with defense. And Crabs are Blasters + Corruptors with Invuln-ish defenses. Of course, all the things they have are weakened and inbetween those roles. Fortunatas don't have as many or as powerful mezzes as a real Mind Dom, and a Crab's defenses aren't as potent as an actual Invuln. But they're still hybrid ATs with bonuses like range while having defense and still getting team buffs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

Also worth noting with VEAT's damage modifiers and the Brute Patron Pools any VEAT can be made into an AoE powerhouse just by taking the Levithan Mastery Pool.

My Crabbie is a little Spidermind Blaster.

Good point on what to give the others. I just see the Arachnos and the Longbow's as a specialized career and not a special archetype. The HEATS I can see as a special Archetype from the get go. They have everything at the front end that definitely backs it up. Whereas everything at the start of the VEATS doesn't really hint at that epic-ness.

It is very true a Villian is out to rule the world. He also would have to start somewhere. So by joining Arachnos on a special Career path , he/she/it/ would be biding there time and getting the training from Arachnos to do just that. So when they are ready they launch a takeover of Arachnos and kill Recluse and then move on to take down Statesman. All with smart planning and being a common thug soldier to start. Regardless if they are a metahuman or not. They would figure out a way to do it.

But this thread has cleared up some of the questions I had and thank's to all for clearing it up. But i'll say it's lame to put Warshade in as a HEAT when it could have been a VEAT, and be like how a Tank = Brute on the Red side. It would be the opposite basically of a Peace Bringer is what i'm referring to.
So it woulda been Peacebringer = Blue Side, Warshade = Red side, Arachnos (both that they have now)= Red side , Longbow = Blue side ( 2 Versions just like Arachnos).

That's how i'd have done it. Since you all cleared things up and made me realize it was a balance issue with all the other classes, as to why it's not a special career path.

Basically the way I see it is, your Arachnos troops are like front line troops. They do all the work, they're down in the trenches, they're the cannon fodder who are the first to be sacrificed. They're not particularly well trained or well armed, but they've got numbers.

The superheroes/villains in this game, though, they're the Green Berets. They're the superstars, they get their names up in lights and parades in their honor. Maybe they go in alone and get the hard jobs done, or maybe it's all just flash and good PR, but the thing is everybody loves them. Lord Recluse and his cronies (as they are, after all Green Berets themselves, just at the top of their game) are on the lookout for them and give them all their benefits and favors.

Well, some of the front line grunts get a little ticked about this. They say, "Hey, I could take that hill single handedly, if they just gave me a chance." So, they go out, and take the hill, and all of a sudden they're the ones that their leaders are noticing and they're the ones getting the ticker tape parades.

That's in effect what you as the player of an Arachnos Soldier are. You get tired of being a grunt and put your name on the Destined One list, and in so doing find out that you've actually become a Destined One. By virtue of being arrogant enough to think that you could be more than just a front line grunt, you made yourself into more than just a front line grunt. (Although honestly, I sometimes think Kalinda is no smarter than Azuria on the hero side, if you can fool her so completely into thinking she put you on the list )

And yeah, the Destined Ones are being recruited to join Arachnos. Or killed if they don't. But in the end you show Lord Recluse you're not to be messed with, and he leaves you alone. So again, you can interpret that as joining Arachnos if you want to, but it's really up to you. (And even if you join Arachnos, you're not an Arachnos Soldier, any more than Ghost Widow or Black Scorpion is an Arachnos Soldier. Again, there's grunts and then there's Green Berets. )