it seems as though anything that comes from game lore: VEATS, HEATS, and Patron Powers, seems to be off limits for now in terms of power customization. bane maces, huntsman rifles and widow claws can be customized, but thats more weapon customization than power customization.
next up for customization is power pools and epic pools.
50: Ill/Kin(A+,R,J)-1047 badges RE/Dark(A) Fire/Elec Warshade BS/Regen Necro/Poison Ice/Fiery(A+) Son/Son Bane(A) FM/DA(A) DM/Nin Grav/Icy
lvling: Inv/EM DM/Sheild Arch/MM Bane NW Elec/Earth Grav/Elec Elec/FA Rad/Ice
Paragon Elite/Rogue Elite Joined Oct 2004
Yeah not tryin to sound like the souryuck. But like I said powers like dominate subdue are already in the powersets for another ATs so why not let us at least change the colors. It's not gonna kill me of course but just wanted to be allowed to finish my theme for my fort 
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You make it sound as if the Devs are protecting these aspects of the game for personal reasons. From what I can tell, this just isn't the case. Or rather... there are different reasons for it. |
Originally Posted by Soul_Stormer
it seems as though anything that comes from game lore: VEATS, HEATS, and Patron Powers, seems to be off limits for now in terms of power customization. bane maces, huntsman rifles and widow claws can be customized, but thats more weapon customization than power customization.
next up for customization is power pools and epic pools. |
VEATS are pretty much as customizable as they can get (for now). You can change their claws, rifles and maces. Since almost every power is an extension of those weapons... Boom. You have (partial) power customization. Granted... I would like to be able to customize things like Fortitude or Serum... but in this case... the work it would take to change them would out-weigh the satisfaction of completion.
HEATS, from what I understand, are just too difficult to change at the moment. Every power has their effects 'baked in' as it were and would almost certainly require a re-do just to be able to give us a minor perk. Not only that, but the models for their transformations would also have to be redone so that they can be changed as well... otherwise you'd have powers colored all kinds of different ways... but with a Warshade Lobster Mode that's still a dark purple.
Patron Powers... those are like all the other pool powers in the game. You can't customize those either. As for why... I have no clue. I can only imagine it has something to do with you're ability to respec out of them that would cause things to go haywire.
Essentially what Rock_Crag said. Although there have been a lot of claims from players that devs have refused to make Patron Pools or EAT Power Sets customizable because "they are part of the game lore and thus must be fixed to that in-game source", I don't believe I've ever actually seen any post from a REDNAME stating that specifically. There have been posts that that is ONE reason. But not the only reason or even the most important reason.
The simple truth is, EATs are only a small majority of the player base, they used to be only a subset of those players who had reached 50, now they are only a subset of those players who have reached 20. Not everyone who gets to 20 tries an EAT, and not everyone who tries them stays with them. So it's a great deal of work for a proportionally smaller group of the players.
Where SoA are concerned, the biggest problem is that you can't have Weapon Customization AND Power Customization. Claws does not allow you to alter the color of the blasts you fire with Shockwave and Focus. War Mace does not allow you to alter the color of the flashes when your mace hits someone. Assault Rifle does not allow you to alter the color of the bullets that are fired, or the color of the flames from your Flamethrower.
This actually came up when Spines was not originally included with Weapon Customization, while you are able to alter the appearance and color of the spines that appear on you when you attack, you cannot change the color of the EFFECTS. They still still spray green goo, even if the spines are not yellow bananas, but silver spikes instead. (And I'm not sure the spines actually change when they LEAVE YOUR BODY, they may still be the bananas)
So in short, if you were to gain the ability to color your Fortunata blasts, you would have to give up the ability to color your claws. Yes, there is only one style of Widow claws, and I think that's a shame, really. But you can tint them, and if you could tint your blasts you would not be able to tint your claws. You can choose to customize one or the other, but not both.
Now, one thing that I haven't heard mention is that you can customize your Primary and Secondary separately. It should be possible to have the Widow Claws or Soldier Rifle be customizable, but the glow from Fortification or Mind Link have a customizable color as well. Also, I'm hoping that this restriction isn't permanent, in time I'd like to see both the ability to customize a weapon AND the animation that goes with it. Since Spines IS customizable now, when it WASN'T with Weapon Customization, this might suggest a way to reach a compromise.
The limited number of weapons customization options is a different issue. As I said, I think one set of Claws is too limited, and Widows should be given the complete selection from the Claws set, especially since Claws ATs get Widow Claws. Soldiers should get standard selections for machine guns and maces IN ADDITION to their unique options, so they can use those choices for their "civilian" costumes. At least, I don't think it's possible to make it so only the unique options are available for the first costume, and the others for the rest of the costumes, so I would rather have the more options even if that is out of concept for the first costume slot.
The Crab Backpack is yet another complication, as it is not a weapon or effect, but a costume piece which is added to your character. It would be nice if the backpack didn't appear if you didn't take any Crab powers on that build, but apparently the engine doesn't support it. Still, if you have Crab powers, the backpack is the emination point for the attacks, and saying that you don't want the backpack while being a Crab is a little like saying you don't want the mace while being a Bane.
More choices for the backpack wouldn't be bad, though. Perhaps a smaller option for civilian outfits, I think I heard that being talked during testing for the SoAs, although they could have been talking about using a different backpack for females. One without all the Arachnos ornamentation might be appropriate for a Crab "Gone Rogue", though. Or, even an organic option, like Lord Recluse's own arms.
One interesting thing is that since the backpack isn't a "weapon", it should be possible to customize its blasts, although Crab Soldiers still have to have Weapon Customization for the gun.
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Just to say it, IMHO the reason HEATs are not customizable is that the Forms cannot be customized, and if the blasts were customizable, the players would insist the Forms be as well. This is a technical issue, Granite Armor cannot be customized either, and AFAIK every attempt Back Alley Brawler made to get around the problem failed. Rather than give the players half the job, the devs have decided -- thus far -- that Kheldian powers cannot be customized.|
Originally Posted by Rock_Crag
HEATS, from what I understand, are just too difficult to change at the moment. Every power has their effects 'baked in' as it were and would almost certainly require a re-do just to be able to give us a minor perk. Not only that, but the models for their transformations would also have to be redone so that they can be changed as well... otherwise you'd have powers colored all kinds of different ways... but with a Warshade Lobster Mode that's still a dark purple.
Patron Powers... those are like all the other pool powers in the game. You can't customize those either. As for why... I have no clue. I can only imagine it has something to do with you're ability to respec out of them that would cause things to go haywire. |
As for Pool Powers, Ancillary Powers, and Patron Powers, the primary issue seems to be the interface. It's complicated enough with one Primary and one Secondary, imagine if you had to specify colors for EVERY SINGLE POOL YOU HAVE TO POTENTIAL TO TAKE. A less daunting solution would be to only provide customization for the Pools you have taken, but then you get into respec issues, as you said. Plus, you cannot customize your powers until you reach a level where you can take them.
The devs have generally said what they have said about "the powers are connected to the game lore, and thus have very unique looks" are in regards to the Patron Pools. Honestly, I think I would not mind if Patron Pools could not be customized but Ancillary Pools could, since Heroes and Villains are able to access both now. You would basically choose an Ancillary Pool if you want your own power that you can customize, or a Patron Pool if you want a power that, you know, comes from your Patron.
However, I can see why players would want to be able to customize Patron Powers, particularly when there isn't an equivalent Ancillary choice. Perhaps some of the powers could be customizable, with the "signature" powers, like Soul Storm, keeping the Patron look.
Shrug,
Seems simple enough to color the forms, if they can do it with Power Surge and such.. I don't see how the leap is that difficult to coloring Kheld forms.
I really want to be able to color the SoA lazers. The red inner core and red beams really restrict color choices in the costumes if you wish to coordinate a decent look.
Weapon customization shouldn't be that big of a deal, it's on the costume portion, not the power portion. Claws already have their animations etc.. pretty much everything in HEAT or VEAT has an animation somewhere in the base AT's... so why coloring it is such a big deal is beyond me.
I posted in the request thread, but I really don't expect to see this happen any time soon. I'm sure they are more focused on tweaking the upcoming Incarnate content.
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Kheld forms are separate models in themselves. You'll have to look at BaB's posts about Granite Armor as to why things are the way they are.
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Originally Posted by Securitron XI
Shrug,
Seems simple enough to color the forms, if they can do it with Power Surge and such.. I don't see how the leap is that difficult to coloring Kheld forms. I really want to be able to color the SoA lazers. The red inner core and red beams really restrict color choices in the costumes if you wish to coordinate a decent look. Weapon customization shouldn't be that big of a deal, it's on the costume portion, not the power portion. Claws already have their animations etc.. pretty much everything in HEAT or VEAT has an animation somewhere in the base AT's... so why coloring it is such a big deal is beyond me. I posted in the request thread, but I really don't expect to see this happen any time soon. I'm sure they are more focused on tweaking the upcoming Incarnate content. |
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Here's the thing... Unless you're some kind of insider and used to work with NCSoft on the game... you have no real knowledge as to how these things are set up. So... making an assumption based on outside observations doesn't hold up all that well.|
Originally Posted by Securitron XI
Shrug,
Seems simple enough to color the forms, if they can do it with Power Surge and such.. I don't see how the leap is that difficult to coloring Kheld forms. |
Don't feel bad, it happens to everyone. It's so easy to watch things from a distance and make judgments as to how things can be done. However... speaking from personal experience... 99% of the time you won't have all the information. It's entirely possible that, because the effects from the Kheldian class were done differently... that they aren't as easy to convert into dynamically colored powers.
Sorry if it seems like I'm going on a bit of a rant here. I'm a graphic artist... and I can't tell you how irritated I get when people try to tell me how to use Photoshop.
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Not sure what I am doing wrong but I cannot customize the claws of my widow |
Originally Posted by Soul_Stormer
it seems as though anything that comes from game lore: VEATS, HEATS, and Patron Powers, seems to be off limits for now in terms of power customization. bane maces, huntsman rifles and widow claws can be customized, but thats more weapon customization than power customization.
next up for customization is power pools and epic pools. |
Originally Posted by Megajoule
We're being invaded. Again. This time, instead of aliens, zombies, or eyeballs with teeth, it's the marching band.
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Well for starters, 2 assumptions don't make a right!|
Originally Posted by Rock_Crag
Here's the thing... Unless you're some kind of insider and used to work with NCSoft on the game... you have no real knowledge as to how these things are set up. So... making an assumption based on outside observations doesn't hold up all that well.
Don't feel bad, it happens to everyone. It's so easy to watch things from a distance and make judgments as to how things can be done. However... speaking from personal experience... 99% of the time you won't have all the information. It's entirely possible that, because the effects from the Kheldian class were done differently... that they aren't as easy to convert into dynamically colored powers. Sorry if it seems like I'm going on a bit of a rant here. I'm a graphic artist... and I can't tell you how irritated I get when people try to tell me how to use Photoshop. |
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| Unless you're some kind of insider and used to work with NCSoft on the game. |
Relax, you're mostly right, and I'm just messing around with you. I do know someone at NCSoft, but his involvement with this game ended several years ago.
I understand what you're saying, and both of you took my very non-chalante comments about the subject abit too seriously I think.
Simple observation and assumptions are rarely the reality of the situation. Which is why my post was very off the cuff and included words like "seems" and "shouldn't" - Nothing was chiseled in 2 stone slabs and brought down from a mountain or anything.
That being said, your graphic work/photoshop analogy is apples and oranges. I'm friends with two programmers, one of which works on MMO's the other works on bug fixes for a large OS (saying which will likely get him in trouble, and I like his employee discount). I ask them silly things like this all the time. They say, if the assets exsist in the game in another form (I don't recall seeing diffrent colored granite or shade forms anywhere, but I could be mistaken) - it's really a simple matter of compotency, time, and effort, to translate it to an already coded function else-where. Could they be wrong about this specificlly in reguards to CoX? Sure, unlikely but sure. More likely, the skeleton crew that still works on the game has bigger fish to fry.
Ultimately that is neither here nor there. If you fellas wanna jump off the deep end about something one of the mouthpieces posted here, be my guest. I learned a long long time ago, that when it comes to games (hell this can be applied to life as well) the reality often is very different from what we are told. And there's never any harm in asking! I've seen a few situations where the Devs of a game said XYZ would never happen, and eventually it did. Honestly I think you can find a better cause to defend the devs on than this, and much better content to rant about elsewhere.
Sorry if it seems like im going on sort of a rant here, I do actually know people in this industry and I hate it when someone thinks they have a little tiny bit of insider info about something unrelated to the topic entirely.
Heh, fair enough. At least you're being civil about it. And thanks for pointing out the hypocrisy in my argument.
However, I feel like I have to take issue with you saying this and my experiences are like apples and oranges. Yes, they aren't exactly the same... but both are round... and I was really only making that comparison with one aspect in mind: The fact that both are visual effects.
The problem with you bringing up your buddies is that very few things are set in stone in programming. All they have to do to change something is go into the text, change or add a few parts of code (granted, it's not a simple process... I've worked with programmers and I know how utterly insane it can get) and re-save.
Okay so... what am I trying to get at? Well... It's not always that easy when it comes to visual effects. And since I'm fairly certain the game isn't completely done in code... I'm pretty sure I can go with my experience on this one. For example: In Photoshop there are aspects that can be changed freely/dynamically... and things that are set in stone once completed and saved. Lets say you apply a filter to an image you created. Once you save it and close out of that file, you can't un-filter it. Doesn't matter if it still has layers, it doesn't matter what format you save it as. Once it's done... it's done. You'd have to recreate the image all over again. I imagine the devs ran into something similar with Kheldians. Or, hell, that may even be the case for all the powers... it's just that the others were much easier to re-do.
Anyway... I do tend to agree that it doesn't hurt to ask. Unfortunately, that really only applies to individuals. Since so many people have asked about this... over... and over again... it does tend to get rather annoying and, thus, results in an onslaught of negativity and wall-o-text responses.
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Actually, Power Surge does provide a possible way to make form changing power customization work.|
Originally Posted by Bringer_NA
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Power Surge essentially makes your character completely invisible with an aura of electricity that is attached to the body like any other aura so that it moves with the body.
At least for humanoid form changes, they could just convert the form to an aura in some way and make the character invisible like Power Surge. The size change that comes with those form changes comes easily enough through relatively simple code.
This idea wouldn't really work for Nova form with its non-humanoid shape and animations, but maybe Nova form should be re-imagined and redone anyway considering how ugly the squid is.
The Power Surge example was actually a good idea.
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Actually, the form change customization is most likely only a coding issue, not graphics.|
Originally Posted by Rock_Crag
However, I feel like I have to take issue with you saying this and my experiences are like apples and oranges. Yes, they aren't exactly the same... but both are round... and I was really only making that comparison with one aspect in mind: The fact that both are visual effects.
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It's easy enough to change which graphical file is referenced in code to completely change the graphic players see, but the problem occurs when the code itself doesn't allow that very easily if at all.
They can change our costumes very easily, powers are now easily altered as long as there are options and eventually there will likely be an easy way to customize form powers.
It's just going to take time thinking of a way to do it either with the existing code or by redoing the necessary code.
It doesn't actually seem that hard to change the form power graphics from the position of someone open-minded and untainted by years of education and training to do things a certain way and no other way.
Just look at my idea above for an example.
They could just replace the form power with a new power that accomplishes the same thing in a different more flexible way, unless the power sets themselves are locked which would need fixing itself.
Edit:
Replacing the power could even be handled similar to how Inherent Fitness is handled. People would be grandfathered in until they respec.
color change for fortunatas and SoA is kind of meh, it wont happen(anytime soon) because they want them to at least LOOK like the characters they ARE. An NPC arachnos wont be shooting yellow or green beams from their mace, you shouldn't be able to either.(in their logic)
I do, however, feel that we should have access to the alternate animations...Considering most of the Fortunata's skills are dominator/controller/psi blast skills anyways.
Color change, however...will not happen anytime soon, just as it wont for peacebringers and warshades.
Patron powers won't ever be customizable by color because unlike ancillary, they're skills that are directly attached tot he NPCs you get it from. Mako's sharks and Ghost's soul tentacles wouldn't just...change colors all willy-nilly, IMO.
Magisterum- 50+3 Fortunata--Virtue
Lukerion- 33 Emp/Rad Defender--Virtue
Noah Heartily- 34 SS/SD brute- Virtue
Mika Heartily- 50+1 Fire/MM blaster-Virtue
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I agree. I actually like the purple mental powers look of them, but I would like the Aim animation they added for Radiation Blast and possibly others.
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Originally Posted by Rintera
I do, however, feel that we should have access to the alternate animations...Considering most of the Fortunata's skills are dominator/controller/psi blast skills anyways.
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Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
Actually, the form change customization is most likely only a coding issue, not graphics.
It's easy enough to change which graphical file is referenced in code to completely change the graphic players see, but the problem occurs when the code itself doesn't allow that very easily if at all. They can change our costumes very easily, powers are now easily altered as long as there are options and eventually there will likely be an easy way to customize form powers. It's just going to take time thinking of a way to do it either with the existing code or by redoing the necessary code. It doesn't actually seem that hard to change the form power graphics from the position of someone open-minded and untainted by years of education and training to do things a certain way and no other way. Just look at my idea above for an example. They could just replace the form power with a new power that accomplishes the same thing in a different more flexible way, unless the power sets themselves are locked which would need fixing itself. Edit: Replacing the power could even be handled similar to how Inherent Fitness is handled. People would be grandfathered in until they respec. |
Interesting.... but your idea still presents the original problem: Having to recreate quite a few aspects of the models, animations, and effects. If not all of them.
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Well, you wouldn't have to change the power animations and none of the numbers will change.|
Originally Posted by Rock_Crag
Interesting.... but your idea still presents the original problem: Having to recreate quite a few aspects of the models, animations, and effects.
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Change always requires effort anyway, and I think it is simple enough for those professionals to do a lot quicker than other more complicated things, like what they may have tried to solve the problem before.
This is all assuming that the power sets aren't locked as they are though. I can't think of any time a power set had a power completely removed and replaced since I started playing, so it is a possible limitation.
Edit:
My idea could also allow for forms to have that cool "Kameo: Elements of Power" "person inside a spirit" look.
This, along with General Pool and HEAT Powers Customization has been covered a bit more in detail in the past.
I don't have the links to some of the info that was passed on, back when Power Customization was first coming, but the main reason they stopped at the Primary and Secondary powers was because they need to design the User Interface for such customization.
Then they need to code and create that User Interface.
Plus, there is a lot of work to do to each and every power in order to make them customizable (I am not sure if they started going into those files to make them customizable while doing all of the others or not... But it's just part of the process and will be done when they focus on it).
The focusing on it thing is the big sticking point now.
Many of us were hoping they'd get to it during or soon after Issue 16 (When the initial wave was implemented).
Instead, Going Rogue became the focus and they said it'd have to wait.
More recently, they talked about how it was "on their radar", but well down on the list.
Many of us have been trying to suggest for them to bump it up on that list and make it somewhat of a priority.
I've gotten a good amount of responses and opinions in this thread.
Feel free to offer your thoughts, if you wish! 
Also, so far, if a powerset uses a weapon and has weapon customization, they do not get any other form of customization.
Whether or not they can and/or will overcome that, I am not sure about at all.
I'm not sure if that would interfere with VEATs.
VEATs are a bit unique, with their alternate paths. So, I expect that they will take a little (or possibly a lot) more work.
Power Pools and Epic Pools will likely be next... but I don't say that with much knowledge or authority whatsoever, hehe.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Oh... Double post just to add an aside...
The idea that VEATs, HEATs and possibly Patron Pools would not be customizable mostly stems from a somewhat casual list, that Back Alley Brawler (I believe) shared with the community, of the reasons why the developers might not include customization for those powers initially or ever.
Basically the list of reasons that the developers had on the table after discussions and work and such.
He stated it was in no way a definitive answer to anything... just simply the thoughts tossed around.
One of the reasons was that they might want to keep the lore-specific powers as they are.
There was no firm decision nor stance on that. It was just one of those things that he was saying could lead to it never happening.
Not sure this vague aside really helps anything, but I thought I'd mention where that concept of them not wanting to allow customization of lore-specific powers comes from.
It's just important to note that they've never stated that they are taking this stance. They just kindly raised it as a consideration within the team.
For now, these powers just simply require more work (mostly due to UI) and they've had to wait.
That's all there is to it thus far.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Here's a VEAT Power Customization which I suspect that we can ALL agree on with respect to Soldiers. I'm talking about weapon redraw, and being given the option to avoid it.
It would be NICE if it were possible to specify in the Costume Editor if we wanted to keep our pre-24 branch Arachnos Weapon drawn while using post-24 branch Powers ... for those which ARE NOT built specifically around using the Mace (for animations and conceptualization). This would mean alternates of almost all the Crab Soldier Powers being given the option to keep the Arachnos Weapon Drawn while animating (almost all of) the Crab Primary Powers (Channelgun, Suppression, Aim, etc.) and Secondary Powers (Fortification, Serum). Likewise with some of the Bane Soldier Powers (Build Up, Placate, Cloaking Device, Surveillance), there would be the option to use either the Mace animation or the Arachnos Weapon Draw(n) animation.
Theoretically, it should be "not difficult" to create alternate weapon animation choices for the Post-24 Branch Bane/Crab Powers. Note that in the case of the Crab attacks, the animation of the attack from the Crab Legs wouldn't be altered at all ... just the (optional) presence of (keeping) your Gun in your hand while doing the Crab attacks, so that you avoid the need to (re)draw your Gun if mixing Soldier attacks with Crab attacks.
I'm thinking this would be some really easy, low hanging fruit, which the Devs could turn around and make available in a remarkably short amount of time ... and be able to push it out with Issue 20 (if they wanted to).
I'm not familiar enough though with the Widow side of things to know if they also have any sort of Weapon Draw issues of any kind when mixing and matching their pre-24 and post-24 branch powers.
So ... does anyone here think this might NOT be doable?
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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Forts have redraw issues when using the claw attacks mixed with other ones, NWs don't.|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
I'm not familiar enough though with the Widow side of things to know if they also have any sort of Weapon Draw issues of any kind when mixing and matching their pre-24 and post-24 branch powers.
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And I would definitely love this to be fixed.
When it comes to actual customisation, I'm not that bothered with regards to recolouring and so on, I just want to be able to use all the claw options that other ATs get on my Fort.
Just wanted to post up about Power customizing for a SOA. This is not a rant or flame post, just wanted to see if anyone feels the same way or has any suggestions. Don't know if anyone has posted up about this either due to my weak search fu. Basically I have a Fortunata that I have finally rolled over to the hero side. So while taking care of one of my tip missions I was thinking that I would go to the tailor and change the colors and animations of my powers. I also have a mind/psi dom and liked how the hand animations look. So I get there and go to the powers tab and find out that I can't do anything to it at all. grrrr This really confuses me considering some of the powers are the same animations as my dom and to not be able to even change the colors is frustrating. Just figured it wouldnt be that much of a problem to fix considering SOAs are the elite picks after hitting 50 (or use to be). Is this the same way for the maces for banes? Can the maces be switched to the alt maces they have for brutes or tanks and such? And I guess this can tie in with the crab pack as well. I mean I have a crab build myself and have heard alot of people say they dont take it due to the arms on it. Anywho just wanted to see if anyone feels the same way or if any ideas have been pushed up to the big red names. Thanks and hope to get some replies