the badges are collected in a set, while its possible to do them all in one run, you can quite easily do them across 2/3 without issue.
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It is better to think of the Master of Apex/Tin Mage Badges as accolades. It doesn't matter if it takes years to get it or in one run.
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Multiple runs. It doesn't matter how many runs it takes you. You can get them 1 at a time if you desire (or by "accident"). As long as you eventually get them all, you'll get the accolade.
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Originally Posted by Maniac_Raid
Does anyone know if the qualifications for this badge must be made in a single run, or if the three badges can be obtained through multiple runs to get the Master of badge?
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Huzzah! Got this one last night. We didn't think we were gonna be able to defeat Battle Maiden in the 15 min. window. I think we got her at like, 14 mins. 58 seconds. 
Muh first MO Badge! 
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Congrats, Khel! |
Originally Posted by Kheldarn
Muh first MO Badge!
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Gratz! Were you counting the time since she spawned, or just the time she was on the map? The time she is gone does not count. You may have had more time than you thought. |
Originally Posted by Kheldarn
Huzzah! Got this one last night. We didn't think we were gonna be able to defeat Battle Maiden in the 15 min. window. I think we got her at like, 14 mins. 58 seconds.
Muh first MO Badge! |
Everything I've read and heard is that you have 15 mins. total. Including the time when she's gone.
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Except I've seen several accounts of people getting the badge after 20 minutes or so as well, and the only way to account for that is that the time she is not on the map does not count. Considering she doesn't seem to regen or anything while she is gone, it seems that her "state" is simply saved until she returns. It's not far fetched to think that the timer is part of that.|
Originally Posted by Kheldarn
Everything I've read and heard is that you have 15 mins. total. Including the time when she's gone.
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I've ran this several times myself and kept track of the timer that way, and in all cases so far, it seemed to have been an accurate measure. I don't know for sure if I've gone over the 15 minutes total and still earned the badge because I didn't measure it, but in at least one case it took us about 13 minutes of time she was on the map and were still awarded the badge. With that team, I'm pretty sure she was gone for more than just 120s... but I really can't say for sure.
I guess more testing is still necessary... but Paragon Wiki already says "Timer only counts while she is on the map", so that's what I've gone by.
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Definitely can't be true, I got the badge on a team that took close to 25 minutes total on the final mission.|
Originally Posted by Kheldarn
Everything I've read and heard is that you have 15 mins. total. Including the time when she's gone.
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That said, I still can't be sure of when it starts counting. However, I'm beginning to suspect the timer only starts upon her *return* - in that fight, we took about 8 minutes to take down her initial 50% of HP (no tanker, sloppy pull), maybe 2-3 minutes to take down the ambush waves of champions, and than about 12 minutes to take down her second 50%. I was genuinely surprised when we got Already Dead at the end.
(As you might imagine, testing this is difficult.)
Well I got a support ticket that says otherwise.
Now, not saying the GMs know everything, but I was told that even when Battle Maiden retreats from the map, the timer is still counting.
The first time I did this, I sent in a support ticket as we defeated Battle Maiden in less than 15 minutes, counting only the time she was on the map, and I did not get the badge, I sent in a support ticket and was told when Battle Maiden has retreated from the map, the timer still counts down.
So take that as you may, but this is what was told to me in a support ticket.
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That matches what I've observed, so I'm going to have to confirm it. |
Originally Posted by Beef_Cake
Well I got a support ticket that says otherwise.
Now, not saying the GMs know everything, but I was told that even when Battle Maiden retreats from the map, the timer is still counting. The first time I did this, I sent in a support ticket as we defeated Battle Maiden in less than 15 minutes, counting only the time she was on the map, and I did not get the badge, I sent in a support ticket and was told when Battle Maiden has retreated from the map, the timer still counts down. So take that as you may, but this is what was told to me in a support ticket. |
From all appearances, it is 15 minutes total including time spent off the map. A couple of times we defeated her within 15 minutes only counting the time she spent on the map, but didn't get the badge.
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FWIW, I was once told in a support ticket that all Monsters (including Deathsurge and Caleb) "spawn at random intervals"... which (after some calm debate) was eventually followed up by another GM verifying that player-intervention is required... so support tickets shouldn't always be taken as gospel either.
I'm not saying that you or the report is wrong, only that I have yet to personally notice that it's working any differently than as advertised on the wiki. I didn't take part in the beta testing for this, so I'm curious how the badge was officially advertised to us originally. Maybe it's not even really 15 minutes, or it was changed when it went Live, or maybe it's actually broken. I think I'm going to try to use fraps on any future encounters so I can compare results.
It would be a nice QoL feature to display the timer as an optional objective of the mission. That would certainly clear things up.
Well, my direct experience (and what I've heard from a number of other players) agrees with M-B -- "Master of" badges have been earned when that mission alone has taken over 20 minutes of total time elapsed (I was paying close attention the last time I did it, when I finally earned the badge, because I also assumed it was 15 minutes TOTAL, and so wasn't expecting the "Master of" badge to award, because we had taken around 22:00 total to defeat her).
And I don't think GM support tickets should ever be taken as gospel, with as many basic misunderstandings and outright errors many of us have observed in them over the years.
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Also to clarify what the support ticket GM had mentioned to me.
The timer starts from the first punch you land on Battle Maiden and the timer ends when you defeat her. The timer doesn't start when you enter the mission, nor does it start when you enter the lower floor, it only starts once you land the first punch.
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What if I use a gun instead of a punch? lol j.k|
Originally Posted by Beef_Cake
Also to clarify what the support ticket GM had mentioned to me.
The timer starts from the first punch you land on Battle Maiden and the timer ends when you defeat her. The timer doesn't start when you enter the mission, nor does it start when you enter the lower floor, it only starts once you land the first punch. |
That'll be pretty useful for future testing though, (and to buff up the team before the fight in a more organized way). It does kinda make sense too... It counts only the time it actually takes you to defeat her (from first loss of HP.. to the "last").
But the way people commonly rush her as soon as they can, I doubt it significantly changes the numbers people have already reported. If the Devs thought ahead and decided not to count the time she is spawned and waiting for the fight to begin, it's possible they wouldn't count the time she disappears too. (You can't defeat her if she isn't there.) haha
For now, I'm going to stick with what I said before. The timer may start when she is first hit, and end when she dies, but I believe it is part of BM's "state" that is on pause while she is not on the map.
Believe what you will, but I've timed (using a stopwatch on my G15 Keyboard) the battle, and have failed to get the badge after 18 minutes from the time we started hitting Battle Maiden. This attempt was made between the 17th and the 21st.
Stopping the clock when she leaves and only starting the clock when she gets attacked are two different things. I'm sure developer or even Arcanaville would say the same thing about these routines as stopping the clock being a waste of program cycles.
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Can you say with certainty that it took your team more than 3 minutes to deal with the "intermission"? If not, then you wouldn't necessarily have met the 15 minute requirement anyway.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Believe what you will, but I've timed (using a stopwatch on my G15 Keyboard) the battle, and have failed to get the badge after 18 minutes from the time we started hitting Battle Maiden. This attempt was made between the 17th and the 21st.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Stopping the clock when she leaves and only starting the clock when she gets attacked are two different things. I'm sure developer or even Arcanaville would say the same thing about these routines as stopping the clock being a waste of program cycles.
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Fact is, you have your data sets, and we have ours. There is no point arguing that it works a specific way or not because there is apparently something broken about it. The only thing to figure out now is "what is it's specific intended mechanic?", and "what is causing it to not work that way for some people?".
For now, I have my opinion about it, and you have yours. I'm not trying trying to change anybody's opinion. I'm simply stating my experience in hopes that it eventually leads to the "problem" being resolved, either by the mechanic being specifically explained to us completely, and/or by it being fixed and explaining why we're having mixed results right now.
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Yes, it took just over 5 minutes. We held the nukes/shivans/heavies for when she came back.|
Originally Posted by Master-Blade
Can you say with certainty that it took your team more than 3 minutes to deal with the "intermission"? If not, then you wouldn't necessarily have met the 15 minute requirement anyway.
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Originally Posted by Master-Blade
I'm not going to pretend that I know how the game deals with it's timers, or how this specific timer works behind the scenes, or how much of a "waste" it would be one way or another. If somebody wanted to program it to work a certain way, they'd do what they had to do.
Fact is, you have your data sets, and we have ours. There is no point arguing that it works a specific way or not because there is apparently something broken about it. The only thing to figure out now is "what is it's specific intended mechanic?", and "what is causing it to not work that way for some people?". For now, I have my opinion about it, and you have yours. I'm not trying trying to change anybody's opinion. I'm simply stating my experience in hopes that it eventually leads to the "problem" being resolved, either by the mechanic being specifically explained to us completely, and/or by it being fixed and explaining why we're having mixed results right now. |
I will also say that the time I got the Already Dead badge we took out Battle Maiden in 11 minutes from starting her to the time she was finally defeated.
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The whole time, I've been following what the Wiki said. "Timer only counts while she is on the map."|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
As of right now, I'm going to have to say the official line is what we should be measuring against. At that point I have to ask how some people are tracking the time.
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I didn't participate in Beta and kinda got a late start on i19, as well as an even later start on the Alpha Slot and TFs. I didn't really keep track of the threads going on at the time, and the ones I did see happened to mention the same thing, so that's what I trusted. Where did they originally get that information from anyway? Let's be clear that this isn't my theory and I didn't make it up. I'm not trying to be right either. I really thought that was the way it worked based on what I've read and experienced, and didn't know any better. All I did was make a silly comment saying that maybe he had more time than he thought, and all this debate suddenly happened. lol
So far, it hasn't steered me wrong, but I guess it's possible that all of my personal encounters could have been in a "butter zone" that fits each of our possible requirements (except maybe one of them that I mentioned before). It wouldn't explain some of the other reports either unless they were also including the sword ambush at the beginning for some reason.
I'll try to run Fraps on any of my future encounters so they can be re-timed after-the-fact for comparison. It might be a little tricky trying to get people to sandbag to the 15 minute limit just to experiment though, especially since they are trying to actually earn the badge, and the last run we did took her down in all of 3 minutes (absent time not included). lol
Looking at the history of that page, it was started a week after Issue 19 went live. I was in Beta but didn't really try for this badge. BlazingTiger made the "I19 Badge Guide", and that is likely where the information started at. However, that badge wasn't working in the early stages of the Beta. By the time the badges were complete set, BlazingTiger and the people that were regularly doing it had got the whole Apex Task Force to under 40 minutes.
It was, to my knowledge, never revealed by the developers as to what exactly were the mechanics of the badge were/are until the GM response via Beef Cake.
A lot of people set the TF timer, and try to go by that instead of a separate (and more accurate) timer. Heck, you've done the ski runs, you should know how accurate the displayed timer is. The display timer is different than the actual timer.
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I went through my log files, so anytime I was getting Already Dead badge, total time figting BM (including retreat) was in 6-12 minutes range.
I timed it on a run in the overnight period last night/this morning. She spawned, and we started hitting her at 2:42 AM, and she was off the map at 2:44 AM. Adding in stray seconds, we'll call that two and a half minutes. We then dealt with the interim spawns, and it took us until 2:56 AM until she returned. We finished her and the TF at 3:02 AM.
Total time from her initial hit to her defeat: 20 Minutes.
Total time that she was on the map: 9 minutes on the long end.
Members who got the badge: 0.
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Does anyone know if the qualifications for this badge must be made in a single run, or if the three badges can be obtained through multiple runs to get the Master of badge?