I played a Mind/Emp a long time ago and as far as soloing on "base" settings, Mind Control is pretty darn nice. The truth is that Controllers really don't start to "shine" solo until level 42+.
If I were to pick up a Mind/Emp again, I would be sure to take Hasten, pick up either Flurry or Air Superiority as an additional attack (depending on my travel choice), then either Fighting or Leadership (I prefer leadership) and finally choose Psionic Mastery and take : Indomitable Will, Mental Blast (probably respec out my pool attack at that point), Psy Tornado and Mind over Body.
IO for recharge, recharge, recharge in order to maximize the up-time of Indomitable Will and the Auras from Empathy.
But thats just me. 
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lacking an AoE immobolise to set up containment a Mindcontrollers best solo effort is to set yourself fighting plus level enemies but for one person.
against spawns with 2 or 3 enemies in Hold one and sleep the other(s) and go to town on the held one.
Consider using a second built which does not include Empathy's ST heals and buffs, but instead has attacks like Air Superiority. Pool attacks benefit from containment.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
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Its what I usually do but there are some I seem to have trouble putting to sleep/hold. Some Robots and Tank/Brutes (I guess thats what the Bronze Strongmen are) seem barely affected.
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Are you using Confuse like a Hold? My standard solo tactic is to Confuse the toughest (or most annoying member of a spawn and then hold the next (most annoying), and finally begin my single target routine of attacks to defeat each target in order. Once you have terrify, you should still open with either a Confuse or AoE sleep, then Terrify the whole group, and THEN start a single target attack routine.|
Originally Posted by Black Baron
Its what I usually do but there are some I seem to have trouble putting to sleep/hold. Some Robots and Tank/Brutes (I guess thats what the Bronze Strongmen are) seem barely affected.
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I apologize if this is not new info to you, since your tactics are known only to you at this time.
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No. You are really helpful Thank you. |
Originally Posted by Biospark
Are you using Confuse like a Hold? My standard solo tactic is to Confuse the toughest (or most annoying member of a spawn and then hold the next (most annoying), and finally begin my single target routine of attacks to defeat each target in order. Once you have terrify, you should still open with either a Confuse or AoE sleep, then Terrify the whole group, and THEN start a single target attack routine.
I apologize if this is not new info to you, since your tactics are known only to you at this time. |
No I use confuse rarely. I heard it was bad style, and Masshypnosis seems like it has only a very short duration ( and seems to miss often),
Terrify is next on my to learn list. (But I still consider TP-Friend)
It looks like I must assign more slots to the Group Attacks...
Mass Hypnosis actually has a higher accuracy rate (and double the chance for overpower) compared to most AoE Mezzes. I don't know why it would be missing. Do you not have it 5 or 6-slotted? Put 1 or 2 Sleep durations in there, an accuracy, anda recharge, or use an IO set... even the purple set is pretty cheap.
And using confuse is NOT bad style. There's an old myth hanging around saying it decreases your earned XP, but using confused enemies to beat each other up faster results in higher XP gain over time; Just don't let a confused foe do more than 80% damage to any given target, and you'll be fine.
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Confuse (and later Mass Confusion) are the first powers I use while solo.|
Originally Posted by Black Baron
No. You are really helpful Thank you.
No I use confuse rarely. I heard it was bad style, and Masshypnosis seems like it has only a very short duration ( and seems to miss often), Terrify is next on my to learn list. (But I still consider TP-Friend) It looks like I must assign more slots to the Group Attacks... |
On teams, I tend to use them less because they are less needed, but when some "big-ugly" decides to come over and mess with me, confuse is the first thing I click, because it will one shot "de-rail" a Boss, which is something my Hold will not do.
Mass Hypnosis is one of those powers that take some practice to get good with on a team, but once you know WHEN to use it, you should not hesitate to use it. Same goes for mass confusion. On teams, I actually alternate Mass Domination and Mass Confusion on spawns when I am not taking lead role, due to their very long recharges. If I am on a more cautious team and can get on a spawn before anyone charges into attack, I will fire off Mass Hypnosis followed immediately with Terrify to hold the majority of a spawn. These two powers can be made to recharge fast enough so that you can use them on every spawn.
Mind Control is, by far, my favorite control set, due to the shear amount of control it has. Add to this fact that it does NOT lack a pet. Confusion means EVERYTHING is my pet. That annoying Tsoo Sorcerer that makes everyone else's life difficult is now healing ME. That FF generator is lending defense to ME, etc.... Who Needs a PET?! Muahuahuah !
PS: Mass Hypnosis followed by Terrify works really well solo too, because Sleep can set containment and thereby double your terrify damage.
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As I mentioned I have tried to build my Emp side up too. (In hopes of attracting some permanent group) so terrify is still out there for me.
I guess I will get it when I finally turn Lvl 32 in January when I return to my computer and can play again .
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With Inherent Stamina, it should be easy to fit in Terrify earlier, but then I don't use the Fighting Pool. But at level 32, definitely get Mass Confusion regardless.|
Originally Posted by Black Baron
As I mentioned I have tried to build my Emp side up too. (In hopes of attracting some permanent group) so terrify is still out there for me.
I guess I will get it when I finally turn Lvl 32 in January when I return to my computer and can play again . |
If you have questions about Confuse powers, my Illusion/Radiation guide has a section on the confusion (pun intended) and misconceptions about Confuse powers. Solo, you should be using Confuse a LOT.
As previously suggested, my strategy for playing my Mind Controllers solo generally starts with Confusing any tough foes. Then Mass Hypnosis (it draws no aggro, so if you stay out of aggro range, any foes missed shouldn't notice you), then Terrify. The I work on single foes with Dom-Mez-Lev. Refresh Terrify when needed. And I use Mass Confusion whenever it is up.
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mass hypnosis is your solo opener. it sets up containment for terrify, and sleeping a spawn reduces your exposure to retaliation when you use your total domination or mass confusion. anytime you use mass confusion to debuff a spawn, you should hit them with mass hypnosis to get containment and reduce the amount of damage the mobs do to each other, and then terrify to hurt them bad.
terrify is your number 1 dps power, it deserves 6 slots.
when you hit 32, get mass confusion. with hasten and some recharge bonus going, you can alternate using total domination and mass confusion on every other spawn. I have my purpled out controller down to 70s recharge on both of those, so every 35s i can make a whole mob spawn impotent. even without set bonuses though, you can get that under a minute.
for now, i'm afraid that you might have to level up using a lot of single target work. Terrify is wonderful, but it doesn't quite finish the mobs off by itself, and it has a cooldown timer...
for solo or small group play, when you get to your epic pools, make SURE you get a solid aoe dps attack. i use ice storm currently, since with my recharge i can have it up every battle. But any of the aoe dps attacks will do. Once you have this, then you can go to town with solo aoe work, bundling terrify with another aoe dps, and then using single target work to mop up the survivors.
note: bosses have mag 3 status protection, so you'll need 2 holds or 2 confuses stacked on them to hold them/confuse them. Usually I just worry about murdering the main bulk of the spawn first, then hold down the bosses. I realize that's backwards from how some play it. You can confuse a boss and then use mass confusion on the spawn, and then mass hypnosis, and then terrify... and not draw their notice until you terrify. with total domination, you can use dominate 'after' it reasonably safely, but i like to start dps'ing right away after the hold, and dominate the boss after i get those 2 aoe dps attacks off. also, rikti are kinda psi resistant, not your best mob choice. and Nemesis seem to have recently gained a tremendous resistance to confuse effects, so avoid them too.
you can also try stealthing really hard missions for xp, and with confuse & mass confusion there's very little you can't solo if you take your time and avoid direct confrontation until you've softened up your targets thoroughly. i solo'd the baby new year mission on invincible over & over with my mind/storm with no risk to speak of. though I did use a lot of storm's knockback on the elite boss, for extra dps, and just in case my levitate spam missed a shot. I didn't do it 'fast', but it wasn't dangerous if I took my time. Oh, be aware of levitate's knock up effect, it can be spammed to keep a boss permanently disabled, but you have to watch the timing of it. Don't hit it again until they're fully on their feet again, or they'll lift up & down without 'falling', thus being able to return fire.
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I'd greatly advise against this approach. A single boss can often deal upward of 400 damage in one attack. If that's coupled with a few enemies that slipped past the AoE mezzes, you can quickly see yourself in the red. That even discounts the presence of mezzing bosses like Master Illusionist and Vampyri. Mez those bosses first, I say, especially with a secondary that will offer you little means to mitigate that damage.|
Originally Posted by Katerinae
note: bosses have mag 3 status protection, so you'll need 2 holds or 2 confuses stacked on them to hold them/confuse them. Usually I just worry about murdering the main bulk of the spawn first, then hold down the bosses. I realize that's backwards from how some play it. You can confuse a boss and then use mass confusion on the spawn, and then mass hypnosis, and then terrify... and not draw their notice until you terrify. with total domination, you can use dominate 'after' it reasonably safely, but i like to start dps'ing right away after the hold, and dominate the boss after i get those 2 aoe dps attacks off. also, rikti are kinda psi resistant, not your best mob choice. and Nemesis seem to have recently gained a tremendous resistance to confuse effects, so avoid them too.
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As for trouble mobs, Carnies spring to mind. They've got a bit of psi defense that will throw off your ability to mez most of the group in a single shot. Master Illusionist should be your primary target for confuse. When they summon their Dark Servant, it will debuff the rest of the crowd making survival easier. Nemesis have confuse protection (they always have), which means double stacking confuses before it will kick in to effect. Some of their mobs also have protection from Fear. Part of excelling with Mind control is really knowing the enemy. Leverage things to your advantage by mezzing mobs that will debuff their allies or buff you, Rikti guardians, for example.
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Originally Posted by ketch
I'd greatly advise against this approach. A single boss can often deal upward of 400 damage in one attack. If that's coupled with a few enemies that slipped past the AoE mezzes, you can quickly see yourself in the red. That even discounts the presence of mezzing bosses like Master Illusionist and Vampyri. Mez those bosses first, I say, especially with a secondary that will offer you little means to mitigate that damage.
As for trouble mobs, Carnies spring to mind. They've got a bit of psi defense that will throw off your ability to mez most of the group in a single shot. Master Illusionist should be your primary target for confuse. When they summon their Dark Servant, it will debuff the rest of the crowd making survival easier. Nemesis have confuse protection (they always have), which means double stacking confuses before it will kick in to effect. Some of their mobs also have protection from Fear. Part of excelling with Mind control is really knowing the enemy. Leverage things to your advantage by mezzing mobs that will debuff their allies or buff you, Rikti guardians, for example. |
I agree with you on this.
I have a lvl 50 Mind/Emp. Controller and although I don't remember solo'ing him too much when getting him to 50 I just solo'ed the Incarnate/Alpha slot unlock story arc.
I almost always confuse the boss(es) first and then worry about the others...sometimes (especially now that I'm 50 and don't care about XP) I just let the boss kill the minions.
For the incarnate unlock arc, I just confused Holtz the EB and let him kill Hero-1 and the other Rikti/portals
Sure it may have taken longer but I never got hit hehe....mmm...confuse, use it and love it!Also like others have said, Terrify is your "damage" power in the Mind Control set....use the AoE sleep then Terrify....work with it and have fun!
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I'm concerned by the fact that you say you have the full Fighting pool by level 30. I think this is the bulk of your issue, especially since you've said you've not neglected your Empathy side. You can get the full Fighting pool, but it's much more worth it in a final build than a leveling up one in my experience.
Mind/Empathy is going to be a somewhat tight build. What I'd recommend is focusing more on the Mind side than the Empathy. Specifically the power I'd consider passing over is Resurrect.
For most of the Mind powers, I would take them at the lowest level they become available.
For someone who teams occasionally, the power order I'd recommend is as follows (note that it does get the full Fighting pool by 30, but drops Resurrect and picks up Hasten. Super Speed is there for the Stealth.):
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Level 48 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Mind Control
Secondary Power Set: Empathy
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Levitate -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Healing Aura -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Dominate -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Heal Other -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Confuse -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Mass Hypnosis -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Mesmerize -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Clear Mind -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Total Domination -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Fortitude -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Super Speed -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Terrify -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Recovery Aura -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Weave -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Mass Confusion -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Regeneration Aura -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Adrenalin Boost -- Empty(A)
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Empty(A)
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Set Bonus Totals:
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Mind should really only ever have to personally defeat one enemy...the last one standing after they kill each other off.
Get the mobs confused (starting with the most powerful), ping the group with Terrify to get credit, lock down anything troubling you, and defeat the last mob.
The best part is, the stronger the opponents are, the faster you can go since you are using the game against itself.
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Mind Control is a very strange beast. I kind of like that about it. Different combinations of your mezzes create different effects, and if you're sly, you can work that to your advantage.
The essentials are:
Hold: Enemy cannot not move, does not fight back, drops toggles
Confuse: Enemy can move, uses buffs on you and attacks/debuffs on enemies, does not alert to your presence
Sleep: Enemy cannot move, does not fight back, drops toggles, effect disappears if Hp change or if knocked down/back/repelled, if Mass Hypnosis does not alert
Afraid: Enemy cannot move, has a chance to shoot back one time or run when attacked
But when you layer the effects you get interesting combos:
Mass Hypnosis (sleep) + Total Domination (hold) = Anything Total Dom misses stays asleep and won't attack you just then
Mass Confuse (confuse) + Terrify (afraid)= Everything takes one last swing at each other and stops attacking. Each time you hit them after this they attack each other exactly once or try run away.
Terrify (Afraid) + AoE knockdown blast = Everything that falls over misses its chance to shoot back or run
Mass Hypnosis (sleep) + Confusion (confuse) = Ability to confuse each enemy individually before waking them all up at once, so they don't kill each other in the meantime
Mass Hypnosis (sleep) + Mass Hypnosis (sleep) = Slept bosses before you even start the fight. More viable solo than on teams. Much more powerful on Dominators but still useful on Controllers. A much more viable tactic on massive Recharge builds. But as long as you keep spamming Mass Hypnosis there's no reason you can't take each boss out 1 by 1.
Mass Hypnosis (sleep) + Terrify (afraid) + AoE Blast = (If both Blasts are in quick succession of each other) Double damage from BOTH blasts. This is a critical skill to master at higher levels for maximum damage.
Mass Hypnosis (sleep) = Ability to tell if the enemy you've got selected is centered enough in the mob that Mass Confusion or Total Dom will hit all/most of their allies.
Mass Confusion (confuse) + Confusion (confuse) = Same as acting as if your Confuse is in Domination mode (mag 6 instead of mag 3). Useful against enemies like Malta that have mag 3 Confuse protection, so that 1 cast of Confusion catches them. Also works on bosses.
Dominate + Levitate + Dominate = Way to juggle a boss so it stays out of the fight while you stack mezzes. Also works well with Confusion.
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Well Full Fighting Pool is a bit overblown. I have Kick,Tough and Weave inn a attempt to be a bit less squishy.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I'm concerned by the fact that you say you have the full Fighting pool by level 30. I think this is the bulk of your issue, especially since you've said you've not neglected your Empathy side. You can get the full Fighting pool, but it's much more worth it in a final build than a leveling up one in my experience.
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As a guy who has been playing a Mind/Emp since the BETA (think about that), I can say that soloing has gone from "not possible" to "doable, but real slow compared to a scrapper or blaster". Before they added dbl damage to held opponents, soloing was simply not an option. Now, with that and other attacks (sands of mu, nemesis staff, etc) it can be done.
As someone pointed out, picking up a travel attack power (I used jump kick till I got into the high 40's) helps out. I also recommend getting acrobatics, it's worth it.
I've been thinking about doing up a guide for Mind/Emp... now that I see Im not the only one playing the class I may do it.
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I have a Mind/Emp Controller I like and I am very good at Teams (well supportive) but I have no fixed group (I was introduced to two but lets just say it didn`t work out.). I dislike standing around bleating for Teams..
Is there any way I can make the Character better at solo play?
So far I got lvl 3o ish and have tough, kick and weave the rest is just regular powers.... (I have a respec)