Wait... What Carnival of Light?
By
Arilou,
Posted on: 2010-12-06 13:49 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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That's not what was said, though, at least not in general. Praetoria is a STRUCTURED place, one built on order, obedience and peace, where entertainment is state-controlled and programming is screened before airing. This isn't the kind of atmosphere where a free-spirited travelling circus would fit in. It's less a question of Praetoria being too dark for a carnival and more a question of it being too SERIOUS for a carnival, especially when Cole wouldn't really let free agents provide uncontrolled entertainment.
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Originally Posted by Ice_Wall
The point of my statement was, some one was mentioning how out of place something like the "Carnival of Light" would be in a place that is completely "McGrimDark". This doesn't hold up since Praetoria isn't all "McGrimDark", it's a lot of things, and it's complicated, painting it with one color or brush is an overly simplified way of looking at things, and in such a complicated place, in a superheroic setting, carnival themed pshychics wouldn't be all that out of place, certainly not any more so than yellow skinned super steroided gangsters and mindless zombiefied lab experiments.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Personally I can see the Carnival of Light as a travelling circus moving between settlements carrying news and information and boosting morale. Perhaps they decide to dress and act flamboyant as a camouflage. After all, they are psychically protected by Vanessa so nobody will detect any wrongdoing from them. The "Real" Resistance wouldn't act and dress like that, so clearly they are just a harmless bunch of buffoons. No need to stomp on them for putting on shows.
People keep saying that Praetoria is rigidly controlled but except for the "neatness" of Nova Praetoria I don't see it. Corporations still exist and aren't directly controlled by the government as far as I can tell, people have ordinary jobs to go to and aren't forced to work on farms or in factories churning out warmachines. Heck, even in Nova Praetoria the government can't keep the Destroyers off the street or the Resistance out of the sewers. That's in the very heart of the nation! And yes, I know about the conspiracy which allows the Destroyers to exist, but that's not the point. Such a conspiracy proves my point even clearer, since it means that Cole can't even control or trust his Praetors to do what he wants.
Praetoria is still a chaotic jumble of opportunities for the Resistance and others to take advantage of. If it wasn't we wouldn't have a game. So the Carnival of Light would be perfect for hiding in plain sight. Act and look outrageous, nobody is going to think that you are really the secretive and mysterious Resistance, especially after going to a show and getting subtly brainwashed to dislike the government while watching the jugglers and fire-breathers, etc.
If I was in charge I would put up impromptu Carnie shows in the streets and parks in Imperial City. Just performers juggling or performing acrobatics or whatever, with a small crowd watching. After a while the cops would show up and the Carnies would move on. I would also introduce a new global event: a Carnie parade! Have Carnies walk en masse through the streets and gather at a circus tent where they are protected by lots of brainwashed "protesters". The government decide to disperse the unsanctioned gathering and so players must decide on whether to fight the Carnies or help them.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
Consider something like Circus de Soleil, a very visually stimulative form of entertainment that could exist in Praetoria. Anything that requires the audience to sit in one place would be a form of entertainment that the state should love. Instead of having street carnivals and big top circuses Preatoria has awesome stage productions that blend magic, style and dance into such a compelling performance that the unemployed masses keep coming back each week. Sitting in a large auditorium, but unallowed to speak to strangers and move about freely, since there is a performance going on. Now the style of circus de soleil is mostly burlesque (If i had to choose one word) but if the popular style of stage performers in Praetoria is of a more venetian blend we could come up with a reason for Pranessa and her carnival to dress that way.
The Resistance could have something like Burning Man. Possibly to get new recruits. A series of underground raves were the young and impressionable go to hang out and be cool, too young and navie to realize how corrupt their society is. This kids could be dressing in odd and fanical coustumes (stylish, goth and venetian at the same time).
I just read Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle within the last year. His portrayal of the French Court (those who clung about the French King) was of a bunch of decandent, sloths concerned with nothing but the most outlandish fashions. Venetian style could have been in fashion recently on Praetoria.
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I dunno. See, 'cause while Destroyers and Resistance members can run around the streets of Praetoria with little molestation, they're running around as small groups, and they aren't really carrying anything the can't be taken with them. A carnival, despite being created for travel, doesn't actually move all the easily, especially not once it's been set up.|
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
People keep saying that Praetoria is rigidly controlled but except for the "neatness" of Nova Praetoria I don't see it. Corporations still exist and aren't directly controlled by the government as far as I can tell, people have ordinary jobs to go to and aren't forced to work on farms or in factories churning out warmachines. Heck, even in Nova Praetoria the government can't keep the Destroyers off the street or the Resistance out of the sewers. That's in the very heart of the nation! And yes, I know about the conspiracy which allows the Destroyers to exist, but that's not the point. Such a conspiracy proves my point even clearer, since it means that Cole can't even control or trust his Praetors to do what he wants. Praetoria is still a chaotic jumble of opportunities for the Resistance and others to take advantage of. If it wasn't we wouldn't have a game. So the Carnival of Light would be perfect for hiding in plain sight. Act and look outrageous, nobody is going to think that you are really the secretive and mysterious Resistance, especially after going to a show and getting subtly brainwashed to dislike the government while watching the jugglers and fire-breathers, etc. |
Disclaimer: I'm speaking in time-frames of hours/days. A resistance cell could pack up and jump down a sewer to vanish. Time elapsed? Fifteen minutes. A circus? You're gonna need most of a day to get everything ready to go.
And, while I could see the existence of a carnival or a circus in Praetoria, as an independently contracted entertainment group, or a corporation, or something, I just don't see it successfully working against Cole without the secret getting out. Praetoria might have psychics actively looking to stop things like that, but they simply aren't good enough at their job for me to consider it a possible outcome.
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This seems to ignore that there is no transportation between settlements, ESPECIALLY not for a travelling circus. Remember - the world outside the Sonic Barriers is completely ruled by the Devouring Earth creatures. Yes, perhaps a whole troupe of psychics could protect themselves and survive, but how much attention do you draw on yourself when you take a bunch of circus performers out in the middle of monster-infested nowhere and return unscathed? These things kill people.|
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
Personally I can see the Carnival of Light as a travelling circus moving between settlements carrying news and information and boosting morale. Perhaps they decide to dress and act flamboyant as a camouflage. After all, they are psychically protected by Vanessa so nobody will detect any wrongdoing from them. The "Real" Resistance wouldn't act and dress like that, so clearly they are just a harmless bunch of buffoons. No need to stomp on them for putting on shows.
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You could have a permanent circus, I suppose, but all that does is draw attention, ESPECIALLY if the Clockwork already know all about the Carnival of Light and seem to be programmed to shoot them on sight. That's all I'm saying - you need to run a carnival like an establishment, and you can't when you stand out and when you're apparently marked for death.
And if Vanessa can't run her carnival as an establishment, then that just reduces the whole faction to Resistance members in funny hats. When you consider what this is replicating - that being a genuine, believable, official carnival on Primal Earth - it begins to seem like something that needs to be re-addressed in a whole different way.
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People keep saying that Praetoria is rigidly controlled but except for the "neatness" of Nova Praetoria I don't see it. Corporations still exist and aren't directly controlled by the government as far as I can tell, people have ordinary jobs to go to and aren't forced to work on farms or in factories churning out warmachines. Heck, even in Nova Praetoria the government can't keep the Destroyers off the street or the Resistance out of the sewers. That's in the very heart of the nation! And yes, I know about the conspiracy which allows the Destroyers to exist, but that's not the point. Such a conspiracy proves my point even clearer, since it means that Cole can't even control or trust his Praetors to do what he wants. Praetoria is still a chaotic jumble of opportunities for the Resistance and others to take advantage of. If it wasn't we wouldn't have a game. So the Carnival of Light would be perfect for hiding in plain sight. Act and look outrageous, nobody is going to think that you are really the secretive and mysterious Resistance, especially after going to a show and getting subtly brainwashed to dislike the government while watching the jugglers and fire-breathers, etc. |
The notion of "hiding in plain sight" by being so obvious no-one would suspect you is, sadly, not realistic in any way, shape or form, as former intelligence agents will tell you. The best way to remain undetected is to convince the totalitarian government that you're just a grey nobody who's living a boring life and isn't at all out of the ordinary. Because if you stand out, no matter how "absurd" it might seem that someone would be "stupid" enough to do that, just gets you arrested and beaten into a pulp.
If Vanessa took her Carnival on the road, the VERY FIRST thing authorities would do is check the thing from top to bottom, looking for Resistance, Syndicate or any other reason to shut it down. If something new shows up, especially a form of entertainment that can influence people, you DO NOT shrug your shoulders and go "oh, it's too obvious to be a trick." Nothing is too obvious to be a trick. The more obvious it is, the more you want to check it out. That's the defining characteristic of a totalitarian regime, and I know a thing or two about that. I live in one of the former Soviet republics. My grandfather was sent to prison for not a whole lot just like that.
Besides, we know the Carnival of Light is a known entity because the Clockwork are instructed to shoot them on sight, which is why they get into a fight with the Carnival of Shadows.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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It's not just "too obvious to be a trick". The carnies are actively fooling everyone they come in contact with through psychic trickery. The PPD who are sent to stomp them? Charmed, enjoying the show thank you very much. So Clockwork would be the best weapon, being robots and hard to influence with psychic powers, but they can be tricked in other ways and they aren't all that smart to begin with.
What I'm talking about is the general direction I would take the Carnival of Light if I was the dev in charge of making them work. I could always make up some reason for why they aren't instantly crushed and why their hiding-in-plain-sight tactic works, for now, and how they can travel between settlements without getting eaten by the DE.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
The Carnival of Light is a stupid idea, and it really should have been dropped as soon as Praetoria became something other than goatee-universe.
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Here's the thing - yes, you probably could. Proper RP excuses can explain everything. The question, to quote Jurassic Park - is if you SHOULD. Literally the only reference to a Carnival of Light that I can think of is that one mission... Well, those two missions, anyway... And that's a relic from a previous design for Praetorian Earth. You know, back when it was called Praetorian Earth, not the "Praetoria" that my spell checker refuses to recognise.|
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
It's not just "too obvious to be a trick". The carnies are actively fooling everyone they come in contact with through psychic trickery. The PPD who are sent to stomp them? Charmed, enjoying the show thank you very much. So Clockwork would be the best weapon, being robots and hard to influence with psychic powers, but they can be tricked in other ways and they aren't all that smart to begin with.
What I'm talking about is the general direction I would take the Carnival of Light if I was the dev in charge of making them work. I could always make up some reason for why they aren't instantly crushed and why their hiding-in-plain-sight tactic works, for now, and how they can travel between settlements without getting eaten by the DE. |
The existence of a carnival of obvious psychics who can travel through Devouring-Earth-infested broken wilderness and who always seem to avoid forces sent against them and yet can still maintain a cover of believability is just too unreal a concept to really be WORTH explaining, unless someone had a brainwave that even I can't fathom, and then managed to write an entire story around that, which I just don't see happening.
And then we're back to square one: The Carnival of Light is a known faction of Resistance operatives that the Clockwork are ordered to murder on sight, which leaves them as just Resistance members in ugly outfits, thus robbing this "Carnival" of any really compelling storyline elements to it. Especially when you can alter so much and make the faction significantly more interesting, if indeed one needs to exist, without being hamstrung by this one throwaway mission which accomplishes nothing, explains nothing and collapses into a singularity to return to nothing.
Shoehorning the Carnival of Light into that one mission for no reason other than... Well, they were there before, and we wouldn't want to change all that much... That's just hamstringing your writing staff into now having to account for that little useless trivia detail with far broader consequences than it deserves or, as I'm sure will happen, IGNORING it and creating still more inconsistencies.
I respect our developers for creating a great and very entertaining game. But there are things they do well and things they don't do well, and keeping their continuity continuous and avoiding snarls is NOT one of the things they have ever done very well.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Naturally I wouldn't go through all that trouble to just explain away one mission from 6 years ago. It would go along with expanding it, of course. Since we knew nothing about the Carnival of Light before, I would be free to make up all kinds of interesting stuff. And frankly all of the things you seem to have a problem with already apply to the regular Resistance - their rag-tag uniforms aren't exactly inconspicous, even if they aren't colorful. Hiding in plain sight seems to be the standard method for ALL enemies of Cole's Praetoria, the Resistance and the Syndicate alike. Heck, one of its greatest enemies "hides" in plain sight as a crazy and highly excentric seer imprisoned in the BAF. Either they are all very good at this or Cole and the Praetors are very bad at figuring it out. My personal theory is that all the Praetors are incompetent idiots or otherwise impaired and Cole is denied vital information which would let him rule his dimension efficiently.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
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True, but that doesn't tell us when that arc happens, in relation to when the events of the praetorian arcs take place.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
At the end of the "Carnival of Light" mission, Calvin Scott contacts Tina and tells her that the Carnival of Light is working for the Resistance, and she asserts that this is why they were attacked. We are out-and-out told this. This, then, makes me wonder why a paramilitary underground resistance movement would host a Venetian carnival, but we've been over this already. |
If Praetorian events occur in April, and the Tina arc occurs in September, then there is a gap of time where that Carnival could have been formed, that a character that came from praetoria, wouldn't have seen it, since it would have been formed after they came to Primal Earth.
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker
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Well, if that's what was meant, that's not what was said. The statement was that Praetoria was too "McGrimDark" for the Carnival. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
That's not what was said, though, at least not in general. Praetoria is a STRUCTURED place, one built on order, obedience and peace, where entertainment is state-controlled and programming is screened before airing. This isn't the kind of atmosphere where a free-spirited travelling circus would fit in. It's less a question of Praetoria being too dark for a carnival and more a question of it being too SERIOUS for a carnival, especially when Cole wouldn't really let free agents provide uncontrolled entertainment.
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However, saying it's too "serious" for a Carnival.... I think that's a stretch too. We've seen only a portion of Praetorian Earth. And while The portion we've seen is very serious in many ways, the people there have to have entertainment of some sort. Even if Cole controls the planet, he obviously can't control every single person and place. Even right under his nose in the area around his capitol, he can't control everything. So to say that there couldn't be an underground Carnival running around having fun without Cole's approval, I think that's a stretch.
Besides, saying Praetoria is too serious for a carnival makes the assumption that Carnival wouldn't be serious, or would be "fun" and all that. I don't think it would have to be a fun carnival. The Carnival of Light could be a group of people who dress in a Carnival like fashion to spite Cole, or make themselves look fun so as to distract or disarm their opponents who wouldn't take a carnival clown seriously until it was too late. Or they could just be a bunch of psychic psychos who like dressing up in Carnival themed clothes.
If it's a resistance group, they might run around spreading merry making just to spite cole, they could have little under ground circuses and raves, shielded by Devore and her psychics as a way of recruiting people or thumbing their noses at Cole.
Look the bottom line is this, you can't say the Carnival of Light wouldn't fit into Praetoria some where. Praetoria is a big place and it's got a lot going on both on and under the surface. If the Devs want to, they could find a way to put the Carnival into Praetoria and make it make sense, nothing about Praetoria makes the two mutually exclusive. You can't say it's too dark, or too serious or too, what ever, because Praetoria isn't just one thing, it was designed to be complex and have a lot going on, and the Carnival of Light could add well to that if they did it right.
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker
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Actually, it makes perfect sense for the revamped Praetoria - there's already the evil uber-psychic and her army of psychics slave drones, so having the good uber-psychic leading a force of liberated Seers and psychics who managed to escape being enslaved would be a nice idea - plus, Mother Mayhem has already tried to capture Vanessa, while Vanessa's daughter has infiltrated the Seer network, so there are some personal connections between the two as well.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
The Carnival of Light is a stupid idea, and it really should have been dropped as soon as Praetoria became something other than goatee-universe.
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And all freedom fighters need some girl power to help them tear down an evil empire - so Vanessa and her Carnival are a perfect fit
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Trying to put together a timeline for the in-game content is difficult.|
Originally Posted by Ice_Wall
True, but that doesn't tell us when that arc happens, in relation to when the events of the praetorian arcs take place.
If Praetorian events occur in April, and the Tina arc occurs in September, then there is a gap of time where that Carnival could have been formed, that a character that came from praetoria, wouldn't have seen it, since it would have been formed after they came to Primal Earth. |
The new Paretorian content does at least give a very clear marker at level 20, when players escape from Praetoria - so for Praetorian players, I think that any pre-20 Primal Earth content would count as happening during their time in Praetoria, as the only way they can access it once they're in Primal Earth is to travel back in time via Ouroboros.
The newest content timeline wise would have to be the 2 new TFs, as they're focusing on the newest developments in the meta-story - and the new Maria Jenkins arc would come quite soon before them, as it's tied in with the invasion, with Ramiel's Alpha slot arc possibly set between the new MJ arc and the new TFs.
For some of the older content like Faultline, if you go by the levels as the progress of time, then the events there happen before, during and after the escape from Praetoria, with Jimmy and Penny's arcs happening before the escape, and Doc Delilah and Agent G's arcs happening during or just after the escape.
The new Positron TF would take place roughly at the time Praetorian players were active in Imperial City, or werre just starting to check out Neutropolis.
But it's still very hard to actually pin down any firm dates in a content timeline - for example, the RWZ content happens sometime after the events in Praetoria at 1-20, going by levels = progress of time - but in the out-of-game timeline, the 2nd Rikti invasion happens before Primal Earth is aware of the new threat from Praetoria - so the 35-50 RWZ content surely has to happen before the 1-20 Praetorian content.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
The one thing that bugs me about that new mission...
Is Vanessa pulling the whole "I am using my mind powers to lock you down from attacking me" excuse.
I mean, for one thing, it brings the question: "Why not just kill the player if you really have that much power over them?" and it also becomes another thing that kind of shoehorns the player characters as just observers who can never hope to stand out from the canon NPCs.
The simple way around this would just be fore her to say "I am astrally projecting myself, so there's no real reason for you to try to attack me since I would just go away and you'd be left with no answers."
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Simple: She doesn't want to.
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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
The one thing that bugs me about that new mission...
Is Vanessa pulling the whole "I am using my mind powers to lock you down from attacking me" excuse. I mean, for one thing, it brings the question: "Why not just kill the player if you really have that much power over them?" and it also becomes another thing that kind of shoehorns the player characters as just observers who can never hope to stand out from the canon NPCs. |
Unai Kemen's "Save Carnies from Paretorians" mission has been rewritten - here' the old version of the text:
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And here's the new version:| "We just got a call for help from the strangest of sources: the Carnival of Shadows! Well, actually, the Carnival of Light. It seems that on Praetorian Earth, Vanessa DeVore is actually one of the good guys. She's claiming that Neuron, one of the Praetorian supervillains, has hatched a plan to open up dimensional ruptures all over Paragon City. If they manage it, it'll be a madhouse: strange creatures and crazed villains wandering around every city block. Vanessa's willing to help us, but we have to help her first. You have to save some of her carnies from the Praetorians. It's the only way to get the information we need" |
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"Golden Girl, what do you know about the Carnival of Light? They are the Praetorian version of our very own Carnival of Shadows, and they are major players to the Resistance against Marcus Cole in Upsilon Beta 9-6, the Praetorian Earth. Vanguard got a plea from their version of Vanessa DeVore to help out. It seems that many of her 'sisters' have been captured by Clockworks from that world, and she is asking for our help in rescuing the Mistresses that have been kidnapped. I can give you exact coordinates to put you in the building they are being held, and I need you to rescue the kidnapped Carnival of Light members before something horrible happens to them. The Carnival of Light have shown us they can be trusted in the past, unlike their Carnival of Shadows counterparts." |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Agreed, but this only serves to prove my point. It's not possible to entirely lockdown a time frame for the current Praetorian Content, so it's impossible to rule the Carnival of Light out of the time frame Between leaving Praetoria at level 20 and getting to Tina's arc at levle 20.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Actually, it makes perfect sense for the revamped Praetoria - there's already the evil uber-psychic and her army of psychics slave drones, so having the good uber-psychic leading a force of liberated Seers and psychics who managed to escape being enslaved would be a nice idea - plus, Mother Mayhem has already tried to capture Vanessa, while Vanessa's daughter has infiltrated the Seer network, so there are some personal connections between the two as well.
And all freedom fighters need some girl power to help them tear down an evil empire - so Vanessa and her Carnival are a perfect fit |
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Actually, it makes perfect sense for the revamped Praetoria - there's already the evil uber-psychic and her army of psychics slave drones, so having the good uber-psychic leading a force of liberated Seers and psychics who managed to escape being enslaved would be a nice idea - plus, Mother Mayhem has already tried to capture Vanessa, while Vanessa's daughter has infiltrated the Seer network, so there are some personal connections between the two as well.
And all freedom fighters need some girl power to help them tear down an evil empire - so Vanessa and her Carnival are a perfect fit |
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker
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I'd rate that answer as more "simplistic," myself. If she can destroy my character but doesn't want to, how is my character able to destroy her even though she clearly doesn't want that in Harvey Maylor's arc?|
Originally Posted by Scythus
Simple: She doesn't want to.
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Furthermore, it's just another example of developer godmodding. "Har har har! I'm NPC! I'm stronger than you'll ever be!" We get enough of that crap from Statesman and his overpoweredness. The Incarnate arcs seem to be going the right way, but poo that Vanessa has to do THAT. And again - it isn't necessary. As was said before - why not just say she's an illusion and you can't attack her anyway? What does it accomplish, other than to show us that NPCs are still stronger than us even at close to the end game?
And again, WHY VANESSA?!? Why not just keep the regular Ring Mistress of that mission? What does this cameo accomplish?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Sadly, I have to play devil's advocate here...
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My thoughts exactly. Though as some people have pointed out, this is probably an example of Continuity Drift.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I'd rate that answer as more "simplistic," myself. If she can destroy my character but doesn't want to, how is my character able to destroy her even though she clearly doesn't want that in Harvey Maylor's arc?
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Furthermore, it's just another example of developer godmodding. "Har har har! I'm NPC! I'm stronger than you'll ever be!" We get enough of that crap from Statesman and his overpoweredness. The Incarnate arcs seem to be going the right way, but poo that Vanessa has to do THAT. And again - it isn't necessary. As was said before - why not just say she's an illusion and you can't attack her anyway? What does it accomplish, other than to show us that NPCs are still stronger than us even at close to the end game?
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
And again, WHY VANESSA?!? Why not just keep the regular Ring Mistress of that mission? What does this cameo accomplish?
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Nevermind that, as Techbot and I have been saying for awhile now; UPDATE THE OLD LEGACY ARCS, EVEN IF THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH PRAETORIA!
tl;dr No, Sir, I don't like it.
But that's how it is, plus, RPers can always handwave these things away and just say "she was an illusion all along"
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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I firmly believe that they need to just hire someone to do that full time. Hell, hire ME! I'd do it for free. There are so many text errors, minor inconsistencies and just questionable characterisation that it would make for one person's full-time job for quite a while.
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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
Nevermind that, as Techbot and I have been saying for awhile now; UPDATE THE OLD LEGACY ARCS, EVEN IF THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH PRAETORIA!
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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All right. I could see that, and it does sound like it makes sense. Why couldn't this have been explained? I could condense this down to two sentences and stuff it in the middle of Tina's debriefing. After all, she is so curt she can't even be scratching 500 symbols. Crimson says at least three times more in EVERY TEXT SCREEN.|
Originally Posted by Ice_Wall
Besides, saying Praetoria is too serious for a carnival makes the assumption that Carnival wouldn't be serious, or would be "fun" and all that. I don't think it would have to be a fun carnival. The Carnival of Light could be a group of people who dress in a Carnival like fashion to spite Cole, or make themselves look fun so as to distract or disarm their opponents who wouldn't take a carnival clown seriously until it was too late. Or they could just be a bunch of psychic psychos who like dressing up in Carnival themed clothes.
If it's a resistance group, they might run around spreading merry making just to spite cole, they could have little under ground circuses and raves, shielded by Devore and her psychics as a way of recruiting people or thumbing their noses at Cole. |
A lot of my complaints actually stem from the quality of writing in Tina's arc. It just shows no characterisation or personality, nothing but just dry statement of fact, one fact after the next. In fact, it's on the same level as Montague's AWFUL writing. Tina doesn't sound like a human being, much less like a scientist. She sounds like an automated mission delivery system like you'd find in a mission terminal.
Part of that, I suppose, is because she wasn't supposed to know about any of this in her old arc. She acts now as she did back then, but before she didn't know. Now it seems like she just doesn't care. And that's not good writing. At least Maria Jenkins shows SOME personality.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Oranbega is introduced now in 3 arcs
The original level 30 arc (I couldn't hunt down the name of the contact)
Talshak the Mystic at level 12
New Positron TF at level 10
Now I don't have access to the datamining tools the Devs have, but I would assume the New Posi TF is going to have a greater number of old and new players running that content then the other arcs mentioned.
The Rikti secert is handed out from
Steven Sheridan (35-39) according to paragonwiki. I thought Angus in FF give the Omega clearance secert.
Timothy Raymond level 30-34 redside
Levantera level 35+, in Levantera's second mission arc
I don't have the facts to prove more people are learning the Rikti secret from Levantera but the fact you don't have to unlock this contact, and you can't outlevel this contact makes me believe Levantera is introducing more people to the Rikti secert then the other contacts.
Vanessa Devore was first introduced by
Harvey Maylor (45+)
Kahn TF (45+)
Tina Macintyre (40-45)
If we leave the TF out and compare Tina and Havey's arcs. One of these arcs is being run more then the other. One of these arcs I see advertised in PI Broadcast, Global Channels and SG chat. Can you guess which one? I'm gonna guess its the arc that is part of an accolade.
Now the reason I bring this up is this game has a lot of important story elements and facts that are buried in the old legacy contacts and large parts of the player population are not coming across these story elements in organic gameplay. The Devs have moved these elements into more accessible arcs or TFs in an effort to keep the playerbase aware of what the overall storyline is in CoX.
Moving Primal Devore into Tina's arc, requiring the player to talk to her (while storywise Vanessa exerts physical and mental control over the player) raises both Vanessa's profiles in the eyes of the player base. I don't think we should view this event (and the others pointed out) as examples of the storyline tripping all over itself. I think this should be viewed as the story evolving to fit within the confines of player behavior.
I should add the disclaimer these are just assumptions I have.