new Pool set


BunnyAnomaly

 

Posted

Much like the leadership pool is, either as a new pool or more choices on that pool. It would be extremely nice to have a leadership toggle for regeneration like 50 or 75% base. Would also be nice for a resistance leadership toggle and maybe one for recharge and recovery as well.


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Posted

highly op'd. maybe 3% regen, 1.5% recov, 10% resist and 3.5-5% rech. that would make it attractive but not to attractive that you would have to skip powers from primary/secondary to get this.

i even think my numbers would be a bit to high.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint View Post
highly op'd. maybe 3% regen, 1.5% recov, 10% resist and 3.5-5% rech. that would make it attractive but not to attractive that you would have to skip powers from primary/secondary to get this.

i even think my numbers would be a bit to high.
3% regeneration? you're crazy or made a bad typo. 50-75% regeneration would not be OP'd. Health which is auto is 40%. For this being a toggle costing you endurance would have to at least be 50%. 10% base resistance, when the defense portion is 3-4%ish is way more than I'd expect too likewise. 1.5% recovery, woudln't even be near wroth picking up. I could see about 10% recovery for a toggle power like this, for defenders, about 7% for a blaster etc etc. Though the regen is static between ATs as it is for all other sets/powers likewise.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windenergy21 View Post
3% regeneration? you're crazy or made a bad typo. 50-75% regeneration would not be OP'd. Health which is auto is 40%. For this being a toggle costing you endurance would have to at least be 50%.
No.

Health only grants it to you. Your idea, at 50%, has the potential to grant 400% regen.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
No.

Health only grants it to you. Your idea, at 50%, has the potential to grant 400% regen.
On a full team with everyone taking it. Which is no different from all taking maneuvers and capping your defense (which is a lot more effective than the regeneration would be) They could also do it so the 50% base would be to yourself, but only 25% to the team etc


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windenergy21 View Post
On a full team with everyone taking it.
No, you're missing the point. Your toggle grants 400% total regen if ONE person takes it on a team of eight.

If everyone took it, that'd be 3200% regen.


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Posted

You can't balance a power around impossible variables like teammates you may or may not have and the ATs they may or may not be (that would effect what 50% regen means for them in terms of hp/s).

And as long as we're mentioning precedents there are plenty of team buff aura powers in the game that are stackable and far more game breaking than a regen toggle.

25% regen 10% recovery would probably be decent enough to be worth taking and low enough to not turn your team into god-mode when you stack it.

A power like that would be perfect for VEATs.


 

Posted

I dunno, I've been on teams with multiple trap and plant characters alternating who drops the +regen powers so they can keep them running 200-400% every fight. It's not all that impressive compared to the other overlapping buffs. Sure, it's nice to have to help support other buffs, but regen alone won't keep a team alive.


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Posted

Where is he getting "400 percent regen if one person takes it" from, when the idea given is at best 50-75%? With ED slotting, that comes out to 150%, tops.

Don't Pain Masterminds get a +Regen toggle that's like +200% out of the box?


Quote:
Originally Posted by reiella View Post
Until I see something that states to the contrary, going to assume VK is right .

 

Posted

Personally, I would be interested in a new Pool set that allows you to choose at least one or two powers of other archetype/powersets. The power "Lighting Rod" is only available to the more "physical" archetypes, which doesn't make sense when you have electricity in other archetype categories. This would give players more of a Champions Online-like feel. And if this powerset cannot be made available at the initial security level, then integrate it at some other point. Matter of fact, just revamp the entire Ancillary and Patron Pool lists, making it so that individuals can choose up to 4 or 5 additional powers.

Cloud-Dancyr


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Krieger View Post
Where is he getting "400 percent regen if one person takes it" from, when the idea given is at best 50-75%? With ED slotting, that comes out to 150%, tops.
He was comparing the proposed 50% in a leadership style power to Health, an auto power which grants 40%.

I'm saying it's not a fair comparison, because health only grants its bonus to one person. The 50% toggle could be granting 50% to eight players.

50% * 8 = 400%.


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Posted

Personally, one of the things I always found useful about the Fitness Pool was that the powers were all Auto. I did not have to place anything in my tray or click anything. As the removal of Fitness has left no other Pool Powers that are Auto, I'd like to see that added.

Specifically, I would suggest something like Fighting. The last two powers could be a small Resistance, something like Body Armor (around 5-8%, depending on AT) and a Defense about 2/5 of Weave. (So slightly less than CJ or the like, or even equal, which I think would be fine since it is picked up later) Alternately, I have always thought it would be a good idea to have a Defense which is specifically against Ranged, to help out Blasters especially, and that could be higher since it's a more limited type of Defense.

The first power could be offensive, a small tohit bonus combined with a damage bonus. (An auto damage bonus would have to be combined with something else, since it couldn't be slotted) That just leaves the second, which if you split up a couple of Defense powers like I suggested, could be either Ranged and Melee, or Ranged and AoE.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
He was comparing the proposed 50% in a leadership style power to Health, an auto power which grants 40%.

I'm saying it's not a fair comparison, because health only grants its bonus to one person. The 50% toggle could be granting 50% to eight players.

50% * 8 = 400%.
You need to look at buffs on a per-player basis. When people talk about buffs like Speed Boost, they don't call that a 400% buff, they call it a 50% buff because they're looking at the effects on a single player. Similarly an FF Defender's bubble is 15% not 120%.

Yes, it is important to look at the effects of stacking and it's also important to talk about balancing benefit with appropriate End cost. But let's talk apples to apples and not multiply buff effects x8 when we're talking about a hypothetical case in which only a single teammate has the power (i.e. it's only appropriate to talk about x8 when looking at the edge case of everyone on a team having the power).


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by STORM1980 View Post
The power "Lighting Rod" is only available to the more "physical" archetypes, which doesn't make sense when you have electricity in other archetype categories. This would give players more of a Champions Online-like feel.
This is a bad thing. We don't want to be like LulzF2Pchampions.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos Creator View Post
This is a bad thing. We don't want to be like LulzF2Pchampions.
Actually, I'm not certain that everyone would agree with that statement. At this point, most vets are looking for variety, in addition to further character development. What I'm suggesting is that players be allowed to choose whether they want a "standard" mastery as their Ancillary/Patron Pool choice or, be able to select from a general pool of powers for the same number as permitted by level.

Yes, COH/COV is better by far than CO in a lot of ways, so it's only the selection of powers that I'm particularly concerned about.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by STORM1980 View Post
Actually, I'm not certain that everyone would agree with that statement. At this point, most vets are looking for variety, in addition to further character development. What I'm suggesting is that players be allowed to choose whether they want a "standard" mastery as their Ancillary/Patron Pool choice or, be able to select from a general pool of powers for the same number as permitted by level.

Yes, COH/COV is better by far than CO in a lot of ways, so it's only the selection of powers that I'm particularly concerned about.
i'm certain everyone would agree with chaos' statement, as shown in multiple threads around the boards. and it is not looked upon as a good thing around here to speak for other people unless you have undeniable proof that it is what people want. i honestly see no reason to give every power to every AT. and using your own example lightning rod, if you want the power, make a toon from an AT that has access to it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint View Post
i'm certain everyone would agree with chaos' statement, as shown in multiple threads around the boards. and it is not looked upon as a good thing around here to speak for other people unless you have undeniable proof that it is what people want. i honestly see no reason to give every power to every AT. and using your own example lightning rod, if you want the power, make a toon from an AT that has access to it.

Sharker, then I suggest you begin to post support for your statement, because what you have just done is spoke for other people without documenting the threads that you've referenced. And until you do so, you have only contradicted yourself. Furthermore, the forum is not the only means for communication and providing opinions, people do it all day long in-game. They don't go running to the boards to post their ideas. My idea is for the DEVs, and if they deemed it necessary to develop a Wedding Pack as a bonus to the game's character creation system, then surely there is nothing wrong with my mine.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint View Post
i'm certain everyone would agree with chaos' statement, as shown in multiple threads around the boards. and it is not looked upon as a good thing around here to speak for other people unless you have undeniable proof that it is what people want.
If this was meant as a joke, it's funny. If this wasn't, it's hilarious.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
No, you're missing the point. Your toggle grants 400% total regen if ONE person takes it on a team of eight.

If everyone took it, that'd be 3200% regen.
How on EARTH are you figuring that??? I said 50-75% base, what are you reading wrong???


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
He was comparing the proposed 50% in a leadership style power to Health, an auto power which grants 40%.

I'm saying it's not a fair comparison, because health only grants its bonus to one person. The 50% toggle could be granting 50% to eight players.

50% * 8 = 400%.
wow fail. So I suppose in the same way the 4% a blaster gets from manuevers "meaning" 32% to the "team" is overpowered then? You REALLY look at that wrong. You are forgetting that it would be a toggle, that costs endurance for one. After just teaming with 3 traps each with triage, using the combat attributes to check at the just under 900% regen, can tell you it does not make quite the impact you'd think. And as mentioned, you can't count on the entire team to be picking this up either. There are far more "game breaking" things in the game if you plan a team specifically.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windenergy21 View Post
How on EARTH are you figuring that??? I said 50-75% base, what are you reading wrong???
He already explained....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
I'm saying it's not a fair comparison, because health only grants its bonus to one person. The 50% toggle could be granting 50% to eight players.

50% * 8 = 400%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon View Post
Personally, one of the things I always found useful about the Fitness Pool was that the powers were all Auto. I did not have to place anything in my tray or click anything. As the removal of Fitness has left no other Pool Powers that are Auto, I'd like to see that added.

Specifically, I would suggest something like Fighting. The last two powers could be a small Resistance, something like Body Armor (around 5-8%, depending on AT) and a Defense about 2/5 of Weave. (So slightly less than CJ or the like, or even equal, which I think would be fine since it is picked up later) Alternately, I have always thought it would be a good idea to have a Defense which is specifically against Ranged, to help out Blasters especially, and that could be higher since it's a more limited type of Defense.
I really like this idea. They could be based around the Combat Training/passive powers that VEATS get. Reverse engineered, they'd be nothing spectacular, but might come in handy if you have specific goals for your build or would prefer to have a few more autos. The lack of 3-4 autos in my power pick ups, although welcome, is something that kind of nags at me as well.

Rename them and change the values to be appropriate, but it could just be:
CT: Offensive
Auto +Res (like you said, the mez prot in VEAT's auto+res's would not be welcome)
Mental Training
CT: Defensive


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windenergy21 View Post
wow fail. So I suppose in the same way the 4% a blaster gets from manuevers "meaning" 32% to the "team" is overpowered then?
No.

Go back and read my posts. Bonus points if you find the word "overpowered" in any of them.

I was merely calling out a flawed comparison. One poster here told me to compare apples to apples. I'm not trying to compare anything.

All I'm saying is that comparing your idea to Health is not apples to apples. You cannot say "Heath has no cost and grants 40% regen, this should grant 50%." That's not a valid logical leap.

Weave grants more defense than Maneuvers. Maneuvers even has a higher endurance cost. Maneuvers benefits a whole team, thus why the benefit is smaller. Using that logic, your toggle should be less than Health. Try 15-25% and I'll go for it.


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Posted

Compare it to Physical Perfection too.


 

Posted

I don't really have anything pertinent to the subject to add here, but I think it's time for a math-learning break

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
He was comparing the proposed 50% in a leadership style power to Health, an auto power which grants 40%.

I'm saying it's not a fair comparison, because health only grants its bonus to one person. The 50% toggle could be granting 50% to eight players.

50% * 8 = 400%.
When dealing with percentages, it doesn't matter how many people the buff is applied to, the percentage value remains the same. For example, if a MM takes Assault, the +Dam it gives is 11.3%. When he runs this toggle in battle with all pets summoned, he's not giving a (11.3% * 7 = ) 79.1% +Dam buff; it's still an 11.3% damage buff, but the same buff is just applied to a larger number. Say the MM and the pets dealt a total 100 DPS without Assault, running Assault would boost this value to 111.3 DPS, not 173 DPS.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeh_Masteh View Post
When dealing with percentages, it doesn't matter how many people the buff is applied to, the percentage value remains the same.
I'm well aware of that. The point is, it gives the entire team that benefit.

The entire team does 11.3% extra damage. I realize each player is not getting 90.4% damage buff, but there has to be a way to account for additional benefit given to teammates. A total of 90.4% in damage bonuses has been applied to the team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeh_Masteh View Post
Say the MM and the pets dealt a total 100 DPS without Assault, running Assault would boost this value to 111.3 DPS, not 173 DPS.
Just to be nitpicky, Assault doesn't actually work like that. It boosts the base damage, not enhanced damage. So unless you were talking about a mastermind without enhancements, 11.3% damage bonus will only bring it up to about 105.7 DPS. Even less when you account for the inherent damage bonus as well. Again, just to be nitpicky.


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don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.