Giving everyone everything - a good idea?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-11-12 10:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I'm actually unsubscribing because of this. Being able to actually take powers I want?! This is just terrible, it totally killed my interest in the game. I want to have to not get all the fun stuff I want!|
Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
- Everyone that took the Fitness pool before now can choose one of the power pools and three of the few powers he had to opt out of before, meaning everyone is closer to being able to take every power they find interesting.
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WHERE'S OUR OPTION TO NEVER BE HAPPY, DEVS? HUH?
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That is true, but I am concerned about the future.|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
well, everyone doesnt have everything,
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NOW it's not ALL bad yet. But free stuff and eases keep coming and coming. Giving this temp power, making this inherent, making that mostly obsolete, making this easier, removing the need to have that. Will it still be fun when every power is either inherent or obsolete or can be replaced by a combination form a ridiculous amount of thousands of temp powers? And if not, when will the giving and for-free spree stop?
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Originally Posted by Noxilicious
You know, I honestly think giving everyone free and instant access to every travel power is not a half-bad idea, either.
Would that make the game boring? That's kind of a loaded question, isn't it? As Techbot Alpha already implied, the Rest power is not exciting. Downtime between fights isn't exciting because the part that excites us the most is the fights. Similarly travel powers aren't something necessarily meant for fights themselves, but to cut the downtime between missions and therefore the downtime between fights. So the question is then, would less time spent on getting from door to door but more time spent in missions fighting dudes make the game boring? Admittedly my question is loaded much in the same way but in the opposite direction, but the point I'm trying to make here is that travel time is not an exciting part of the game. How many times did you roll a new villain only to let out a sight when you remembered just how far away the mission doors for Kalinda and Burke were prior to I17? Now before anyone is getting the wrong impression here, I am not saying that exploration is bad or wrong or tedius, far from it. Exploration can be very fun, actually. It's just that traveling and exploring are not the same thing. I can have fun seeing new things and places in the game (to this day I cannot help but love Grandville's underground for some reason), but at the same time I already most of the spots in all the zones over and over again and after two years I don't need guided tours anymore. If I want to explore I will explore, and if I want to do a mission I want to be there yesterday. |
But no! Of course you never meant that!
But where is the border? When does making everything that was once part of the game obsolete stop? You can already level to 50 in AE now if you want, buy your inspirations there. Would you want the entire game to be like that, without any travel needed in the actual game world? It would make the game world obsolete, reduced to some nice to look rooms that noone ever moves through, if you never have to travel it. It would make travel powers obsolete. It would make every mission location meaningless. It would make contacts TOTALLY obsolete if their whereabouts have no meaning anymore and you can buy and sell whereever you are.
All I say is I like the game as it is, or was, and am afraid all the free stuff and quality of life things cut away things that once made it an interesting and meaningful game.
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Yes, that is the only reason I can see to still take Flight now. And that makes you pay power choices for a costume option. Which isn't fair. |
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I take Fly because I don't want the pack on my back when I fly.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Depends on the Archetype and how long the players been a vet. for example I can make a WS and start with TP, take nova form to get fly, and starting as early as levels 6 take SJ, and SS. That only counts as two power pools, and I'd only use two powers.
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Originally Posted by Afterimage
Level one Hulk had super leap, why shouldn't I?
Level one Thor had flight, why shouldn't I? Level one Quicksilver had super speed, why shouldn't I? I've never accepted the reasoning that we should have to wait for level 14 to pick a travel power. Nor that a travel power should have a prerequisite so it takes two power picks to get one travel power. While this game offers a lot of customization, none of us are unique or special. There is no harm done if everyone can fly, whether from the Flight pool or from temporary jet packs. And you are exaggerating a bit. And frankly, most of my characters ditch the temp travel powers for the concept driven travel pools as soon as possible. Exceptions are natural or tech characters for whom the concept is an artificial mode of flight. So my answer to your question is yes, it would be a good idea. If they did it. Which they haven't. No one given everything. |
I am all for everyone being able to CHOOSE some of all that whenever they please. Just not of everyone having them ALL. (in a horrible future)
I got nothing against having some power picks moved from later levels to level 2, and allowing to pick Flight and powers from Fitness pool then. Or something else.
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Originally Posted by Arnabas
Actually, what I have said before and will say again now that many, many characters will now have at least 3 extra power choices freed up, is that I would love for them to add a bunch of new power pools, offering more opportunities for us to differentiate characters.
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Maybe they could include a new Fitness pool, that allows you to still have above-standard-hero level Regeneration, Stamina, speed and jumpability through a power pool, so that the inherent old Fitness pool only means you now can slot for those without having to spend a power pick on it? That sounds nice.
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Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the merged monorails and ferries.
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Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
But no! Of course you never meant that!
But where is the border? When does making everything that was once part of the game obsolete stop? You can already level to 50 in AE now if you want, buy your inspirations there. Would you want the entire game to be like that, without any travel needed in the actual game world? It would make the game world obsolete, reduced to some nice to look rooms that noone ever moves through, if you never have to travel it. It would make travel powers obsolete. It would make every mission location meaningless. It would make contacts TOTALLY obsolete if their whereabouts have no meaning anymore and you can buy and sell whereever you are. |
I think the points brought up by the OP are right on the money. I also think they need to introduce a [censored]-load of new power pools to diversify things.
Larry: Owen, what the hell did you do to my wife?
Owen: Well I don't want to say on the phone - all I can tell you is that I killed her last night.
I do get what you're saying but I think it depends on the players.
Choice isn't necessarily a bad thing - and as others have mentioned, it depends on your concept for the character.
If you're an inherently min/maxer type player you will possibly use the I19 changes to squeeze every last bit of squee from your toon - or if you buid a toon for the concept that may not be the most efficient, you'll design into it the powers that it needs to fit the concept.
Personally, I've always enjoyed the low level content (well not the snakes on CoV) and haven't ever had a problem with is so this isn't radically going to change my game - but it will mean I don't need to wait quite as long to get the powers I wanted
Thelonious Monk
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Dear OP:|
OP: Yet now, ever more changes, often labelled 'quality of life', come up that give characters something that once set the characters apart. Like, - Everyone can fly now. (Jump packs for unlimited sale, fly speed enhanced.) [....snip list of horrific options giving everyone that most dreaded of things, freedom of choice] |
I tell you what, why don't you worry about your own characters, and let me build mine in the ways I see fit. That way we are both happy.
This is a game about metahumans, so expecting people to be content perambulating around without travel pools, etc is just a waste of time.
Devo said it best:
Freedom of choice, is what you got/
Freedom FROM choice, is what you want
Hands off my freedom of choice; if you don't want your people having jump packs, you do not have to use them, but please stop low-level agitating to get everyone else's taken away. Thanks in advance.
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No, it's not.|
Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
Giving everyon everything - a good idea?
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But since they aren't doing anything of the sort, I think we're safe.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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Thank you, I'm still too asleep to word what I was thinking.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Everyone can fly...but those who have fly and even one slot it will go faster.
NOT everyone can go super fast and super jumpy. Inherent swift and hurdle just means we now run the same speed as the NPCs do from level 1, rather than having to turn on sprint to catch a random thug. Teleporting TO something is not the same as teleport. Not by a long shot. Given nigh on everyone had Stamina anyway, this is a really daft thing to complain about. Uh......Yes. Exactly. They can take powers they find INTERESTING, not three powers that, if they dont have them, they will suck. Because thats pretty much everyone took Stamina; because ending up running out of endurance repeatedly is a little thing called NOT FUN. *shrug* Your entitled to your opinion, just dont expect everyone to agree with it when a lot of these things ARE QoL that a lot of people asked for for a long time. |
50Soulsunder: DM/Regen Scrapper
50Limitshift: EM/WP Brute
Victoria Nox: Dark/Dark Dominator
And about 5 others that change constantly...
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there is a reality to new power choices, given the current mechanics which the game has run with for 6 years now, how do you suddenly add a significant number of new abilities that arent broken, are desireabe, and arent so situational that people just ignore them for the established powers. oh and since we are talking pools, you also cant really have them outshining existing prims and secondaries for fear of marginalizing players. One reason i am so big on cosmetic customization options is that they make the pools feel new while not adding issues that lead to significant time and ill will generated by "nerfs" needed whenever new powers are added to the game. Im not a game developer, nor do i have any inside knowledge here, but the absolute last thing i think we will be seeing is a significant new number of power pools.
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Originally Posted by Plug_Nickel
I think the points brought up by the OP are right on the money. I also think they need to introduce a [censored]-load of new power pools to diversify things.
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It is a good thing imo (at least as long as they dont include the freight ship ride to Striga in it).|
Originally Posted by Noxilicious
Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the merged monorails and ferries.
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Why? Because it makes bloody sense and goes along with the game world. How would normal people in the city get around if those systems weren't somehow connected at some hubs anyway? And switching train lines at Paragon Central or getting into the bus that boards the ferry is something that we can assume to be uneventful and that doesn't make any difference. It leaves the game world and sense of location in place.
Hero boards transport system, hero gets off transport system. Perfectly fine.
I'd even vote for (and already did suggest) more train station per zone. Going from Indy Port North to Indy Port Docks e.g.. For somehow the citizens have to do that too.
I would however appreciate that the for example the Orouboros portal spit you out to where you came from like the base portal. Because sneaking a free ride from any spot anywhere to a different zone with a built-in shop is not the propagated purpose of your time-travelling connection to there.
Well it seems a good deal of players don't see any danger here and rather appreciate having ever more as a good thing. (Though I don't quite get why some act like the game could never be played before some of those changes, ever.)
(and yes, I admit that no access to Stamina before level 20 was annoying. But having access to that earlier doesn't require to make it, and Health, and Swift, and Hurdle free and mandatory. Why not just allow to take them earlier?)
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Nobody here is saying that the game was completely unplayable before this change, please take your strawman back to the farm where it belongs. Obviously anyone who actually had this opinion left the game long ago.|
Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
Well it seems a good deal of players don't see any danger here and rather appreciate having ever more as a good thing. (Though I don't quite get why some act like the game could never be played before some of those changes, ever.)
(and yes, I admit that no access to Stamina before level 20 was annoying. But having access to that earlier doesn't require to make it, and Health, and Swift, and Hurdle free and mandatory. Why not just allow to take them earlier?) |
Allowing us to take Stamina earlier would have been another possible solution, but that would require the devs to change either how one power pool works, or how all of them work. It's safe to assume they didn't want to do the latter, and the former might have been more trouble than it was worth, programming-wise. (Although it occurs to me that this is exactly how the 60 month Veteran Reward works.) Even if you did that though, you're still using up 3 power picks on most characters in order to make the game not frustrating. Can you honestly say that you get really excited when you hit level 6 or 8 and end up having to take Swift/Hurdle so you can be on schedule for Stamina at 20? Or at having to put off the tier 6 power that is unlocked from your secondary at level 20 so you can take Stamina?
Let's face it, ultimately this is just a patchwork solution for what was, at its core, a poor design decision made when the game first came out. Base recovery was actually buffed some time ago as an attempt at making Stamina less necessary, but obviously it wasn't enough. Instead of just continuing to guess on recovery buffs, why not just shift the status quo down 18 levels?
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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No, not really. Fly itself is so slow it makes my blood boil every time I have to sit on my *** and watch my character bob in space for five minutes straight. And there is a very big difference between slow and slower. I don't know where you fly to that takes you 24 seconds, but when I'm told to fly, say, from the train station in Independence Port to the back end of Terra Volta, I really, really, REALLY appreciate being able to fly faster.|
Originally Posted by TonyV
Yeah but there is a minuscule difference between "fly" and "fly faster." On the other hand, there is a huge difference between "fly" and "can't fly."
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By contrast, the difference between fly and can't fly is academic. As long as you are able to move fast, it doesn't matter if you run, jump, fly or skip. In fact, Fly's only advantage is also its key drawback - it's so safe and so hands-free that it's boring. If anything is at fault here, it's that fly is just too slow, not that flight packs are too fast.
Yes, you can do without a travel power. That is as true now as it has always been. And now as then, it comes at the cost of inconvenience and speed. The difference has shrunk, but the fact remains that a true travel power is far superior to temporary powers.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Agreed.|
Originally Posted by Amerikatt
I'm not sure why anyone would think that the Fitness pool would unbalance their Natural characters who took the 'Batman' option. Those characters are not going to run as fast as The Flash without Superspeed nor leap tall buildings without Super-Jump.
They'll be able to run faster and jump higher than an Olympic athlete, but then so can Batman! I do concur that flying powers (both 'Flight' and the Kheldian flying abilities) should be boosted beyond their current 58 MPH limit (especially when 3-slotted with good IOs) and should have something more akin to the 80 MPH that someone mentioned early. It should be SUPER-Flight! |
And then they should also put in a swingline travel power!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Yup, exactly.
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Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
So in conclusion, the endurance mechanic, traveling and damage that doesn't regenerate instantly after you cleared a mob should be removed from the game. Because all of that is unexciting.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Dear OP:
I tell you what, why don't you worry about your own characters, and let me build mine in the ways I see fit. That way we are both happy. |
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Originally Posted by TonyV
Dear Devs:
Please give me an "Instant 50" button. Also, I want ALL powers in ALL powersets open to me, and no limit whatsoever on what I can and can't take. I want to be able to nova the Hellions in my level-one mission into oblivion. Also, I need complete invulnerability, complete resistance, and instant recovery powers also. If the lolrpers don't like it, they can simply choose not to use it. |
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
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For some reason this quote reminded me of the double splash page (from DC's Kingdom Come) of the Metropolis skyline where there is practically several people flying around. Wish I could find my copy, scan it, and post it here as an example.
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But when everybody can do and have everything, wont the game be super dull and boring? |
Home server: Guardian
My 50s: 3 scrappers, 2 tankers, 1 blaster, 1 defender, 1 controller, 1 warshade, 1 stalker, 1 brute, 1 corruptor, 1 widow, 1 dominator, 1 mastermind (on Liberty)
Current project
Personally, I see no real issues with this. I have had 2 slightly doom-ish thoughts, though... First, I'm one of those who has made a few "normal" human characters, without any travel pools and Fitness will now have me running faster and jumping higher than normal humans, whether I like it or not. I also dread doing cave missions with Swift and any other permanent speed bonuses (either from IO sets, or whatever) making me bounce off the walls more than I do already. Or maybe escorting characters out of missions and having them lose me even more often than they do now. Overall, though, I can live with it and even enjoy it on most characters.
The other, more doomy thought that I have had is "OMG, they're giving us all the things we have asked for! It must be because these are the final days of the game! NOoooooooo!"