Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kractis_Sky
Think of opening the alpha slot as opening the option of crafting a zero-endurance-using temp power that, once slotted, will act - globally - as described. Note that it wont add functions to powers that dont already have those options (wont add -def to dark melee, for example). IDK if they will allow more than one or if swapping out and how freely/often will be allowed. I'm hoping we can have multiple and these will be ajustable on-the-fly (or with in a few minutes, but if not I dont care. I just like the whole thing
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Could just say that it's a universal enhancement slot that effects all powers.
Characters!:
Pinny - Scrapper
Shadewing - Defender
@Pinny
Been playing Succubus Kali for a while with the Spiritual Radial boost. Compared to the Pinnacle version, of which has the same build, there has been a huge increase in survivability as well as damage. The difference is definitely enough for me to notice.
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
I have both a Fire/SHield Scrapper and a Kin/Rad defender testing the Alpha slot.
Both went with Cardiac. I respec'd my Fire/Shield to include Greater Fire Sword (Was running a FS, Cremate, INcinerate chain) and can pretty safely run GFS, Cremate, Incinerate chain now.
Comparing how the toon runs on live compared to Test I notice a big change in my end consumption.
For my Kin/Rad, since he's only a common IO build the end reduction is enourmous!
@Radmind - Justice Server
ClintarCOH - Twitter
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Quote:
I guess...|
Originally Posted by Desmodos
I suspect we're not understanding each other.
I'm replying to: I'm stating, no, they are not all the same. There are three trees for the alpha slot. We're getting the first two tiers of the tree with Issue 19. Those two tiers constitute 3 different Alpha ehancements. 2nd tier grants enhancement to two aspects. So I don't consider them the same. I would prefer that we use the heck out of these lower tiers so the devs can see the impact they have on game play before releasing the upper tiers. If they release all the tiers at once, and then suddenly realize adjustments will be necessary, there will be more whining on epic proportions. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
A question:
How exactly do the Alpha enhancement numbers work with regular enhancers?
For example:
Suppose we have a melee attack power, slotted with level 35 Kinetic Combat x4 and a pair of 50 Mako's, so that the power is enhanced like so:
Acc:62.69
Dam:95.86(from 105.71)
End:79.33 (from 81.04)
Rech:79.93(from 81.04)
If we slot a basic alpha enhancer, what bonuses do we end up with?
For example, there's three cases here:
1) A Nerve Common Boost grants 33 acc, 1/6 ignores ED. Do we get the whole 33 percent, since the 1/6 should cover all the loss from ED?
2) A Musculature Common Boost grants 33 dam, 1/6 ignores ED. Do we only get the 5.5 percent, since it's all covered by ED?
3) A Spiritual Common Boost grants 33 percent rech, 1/6 ignores ED. What is the final number, and how do we derive it?
Any ideas? 
And when this is answered, how do these bonuses stack with global bonuses? Suppose in 3) above there were also 4 7.5's slotted. How does that 30 percent global recharge boost work wth all these others, and how do we derive the numbers?
If 1/6 ignores ED, then 1/6 is just like a set bonus. The other 5/6 will be treated as if you'd put that much more enhancement in the power. So, given the ED calculations here:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Enhancement_Diversification
1) ED(62.69 + 5/6 * 33) + 1/6 * 33 = ED(90.19) + 5.5 = 88 + (0.7 * (90.19 - 90)) + 5.5 = 93.633
2) ED(105.71 + 5/6 * 33) + 1/6 * 33 = ED(133.21) + 5.5 = 95 + (0.15 * (133.21 - 100)) + 5.5 = 105.4815
3) ED(81.04 + 5/6 * 33) + 1/6 * 33 = ED(108.54) + 5.5 = 95 + (0.15 * (108.54 - 100)) + 5.5 = 101.781
3b) 101.781 + 4 * 7.5 = 131.781
Now, I don't have a dev sitting over my shoulder and haven't checked in game, so I could be wrong, but if so, I'd be kind of shocked and confused.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Werner
If 1/6 ignores ED, then 1/6 is just like a set bonus. The other 5/6 will be treated as if you'd put that much more enhancement in the power. So, given the ED calculations here:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Enhancement_Diversification 1) ED(62.69 + 5/6 * 33) + 1/6 * 33 = ED(90.19) + 5.5 = 88 + (0.7 * (90.19 - 90)) + 5.5 = 93.633 2) ED(105.71 + 5/6 * 33) + 1/6 * 33 = ED(133.21) + 5.5 = 95 + (0.15 * (133.21 - 100)) + 5.5 = 105.4815 3) ED(81.04 + 5/6 * 33) + 1/6 * 33 = ED(108.54) + 5.5 = 95 + (0.15 * (108.54 - 100)) + 5.5 = 101.781 3b) 101.781 + 4 * 7.5 = 131.781 Now, I don't have a dev sitting over my shoulder and haven't checked in game, so I could be wrong, but if so, I'd be kind of shocked and confused. |
Thank you Werner, that clears it up nicely.
Hmmm.
This will make designing a build much more interesting. For optimum results, we will want to choose which of the alpha's we want to use first, and then tailor enhancements to maximize the gain-per-power, and then optimize for set bonuses.
Innnteresting.
And, to address the main thrust of the thread:
I think the REAL reason why the Dev's are holding two-thirds of the alpha enhancers in-check is three-fold:
1) The level shift mechanic is...intense. It is at least as large a mechanic addition as the 'neutral' faction introduced with Going Rogue.
2) DCO is still not released, I suspect that they want to hold content as much as possible to counter it.
3) The Incarnate system is making large changes to toon design. I suspect they don't want to overload the players. (We already see many signs of this in forum posts.)
So... Much.... To do!
For the uncommon Spiritual Radial boost, the info tab basically says
22% Enhanced Recharge and Healing.
11% Enhanced Recharge and Healing. Ignores ED.
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
Man I just thought of something, with the Spiritual Core Paragon(the very rare alpha boost) that enhances power's recharge by up to 45% I won't need as much recharge bonuses in order to run the MG>SM>SL>SM chain and that means I can focus on other set bonuses... Anyone care to help me out with the math?
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Quote:
Okay so how exactly do I add this recharge bonus to my powers? In Midnight Grasp I currently have 89.9% recharge enhanced. Do I add the 11% that ignore ED directly to that 89.9% and then add the ED portion of recharge to the power? If that is the case how do I calculate what that 22% recharge will turn into once ED takes effect?
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Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
For the uncommon Spiritual Radial boost, the info tab basically says
22% Enhanced Recharge and Healing. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Quote:
Figure out what the 89.9% is BEFORE ED. Add 22% to that. Then apply the appropriate ED calculation:|
Originally Posted by Santorican
Okay so how exactly do I add this recharge bonus to my powers? In Midnight Grasp I currently have 89.9% recharge enhanced. Do I add the 11% that ignore ED directly to that 89.9% and then add the ED portion of recharge to the power? If that is the case how do I calculate what that 22% recharge will turn into once ED takes effect?
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Code:
Before ED After ED E < 70% E 70% ≤ E < 90% 70 + (0.9 × (E - 70)) 90% ≤ E < 100% 88 + (0.7 × (E - 90)) 100% ≤ E 95 + (0.15 × (E - 100))
So your 89.9% I assume is the Hecatomb set, which pre-ED is 92.75%. Add 22% for 114.75%. Apply the ED formula, so 95 + (0.15 * (114.75% - 100)) = 97.2125%. Add 11%, so 108.2125% recharge enhancement.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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That's basically how I'll be approaching it. Another option is to craft a build that plays well with every alpha slot boost, and swap them in and out as the situation demands. I'm not sure how easy it will be to swap, though.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
This will make designing a build much more interesting. For optimum results, we will want to choose which of the alpha's we want to use first, and then tailor enhancements to maximize the gain-per-power, and then optimize for set bonuses.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Changing builds has a 15 (am I correct?) minute cooldown, while putting in the Alpha power you've just removed is only a 5 minute cooldown.
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
Holy smokes. From a 89.9% Recharge to a 108.2%! Now that is just incredible!
Can you imagine how the Very Rare Alpha powers would affect your characters? Those ignore 2/3 of ED! 
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
Having a difficult time choosing the alpha slot for my Fire/Fire Scrapper.
Nerve Boost is basically useless to me currently.
Cardiac would only really help when I'm only up against 1 target (like a pylon) where I don't have multiple enemies to Consume, but in that scenario it will be a huge boon to my performance. The extra damage resist is rather attractive too.
Musculature would be nice for the extra damage, but my attacks are all well slotted there. On the other hand the Endmod later on will be great for my underslotted Consume and Stamina. The runspeed increase is also worth mentioning to bump me back up to the all holy runspeed cap.
Spiritual will of course help healing flames, but also alot of other powers that couldn't get maxed out on recharge due to the tightness of my build (Build Up at 58% enhance, Fiery Embrace at 83%, HF at 88%, Consume at 26%) Then there is GFS that is just 5% over the recharge needed (to pull off the incin/cremate/gfs chain), although it had to slot a recharge IO to get it there, if this alpha slot would let me remove that recharge IO, that'd be great for this build, being as tight as it is.
Decisions decisions... sigh.
I know for my Fire/Fire I will be picking a Recharge/Heal boost.
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
Most of my characters are either end-hogs or click-happy, and the click-happy ones tend to have heals or +regen. That means I'm primarily interested in starting with Cardiac for the end hogs and Spiritual for the clicky heal types. Musculature is also up there, but there my main interest is Radial up at the Rare/Very Rare level, which offers both damage and endmod.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Werner
Figure out what the 89.9% is BEFORE ED. Add 22% to that. Then apply the appropriate ED calculation:
Code:
Before ED After ED E < 70% E 70% ≤ E < 90% 70 + (0.9 × (E - 70)) 90% ≤ E < 100% 88 + (0.7 × (E - 90)) 100% ≤ E 95 + (0.15 × (E - 100)) So your 89.9% I assume is the Hecatomb set, which pre-ED is 92.75%. Add 22% for 114.75%. Apply the ED formula, so 95 + (0.15 * (114.75% - 100)) = 97.2125%. Add 11%, so 108.2125% recharge enhancement. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
Holy smokes. From a 89.9% Recharge to a 108.2%! Now that is just incredible!
Can you imagine how the Very Rare Alpha powers would affect your characters? Those ignore 2/3 of ED! |
95+(.15(92.75+15-100))+30=126.2%!? HOLY CRAP! That is a huge change in required recharge to run that chain. That means Murcielago's survivability is going to be hugely impacted by this. Now I don't need as many set recharge bonuses and can focus on +hp, resistance, and regeneration. Dude this is insane lol.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Okay so how I have that change in enhanced recharge, how do I calculate the change in recharge?
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Quote:
What do you mean, the change in the recharge time itself?|
Originally Posted by Santorican
Okay so how I have that change in enhanced recharge, how do I calculate the change in recharge?
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Recharge Time = Base Recharge Time / (100% + Total Recharge Enhancement and Bonuses)
So let's say you have Hasten and +85% recharge from set bonuses:
Recharge Time = 15 seconds / (100% + 126.2% + 70% + 85%) = 3.935 seconds
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Santorican
Okay so for the very rare:
95+(.15(92.75+15-100))+30=126.2%!? HOLY CRAP! That is a huge change in required recharge to run that chain. That means Murcielago's survivability is going to be hugely impacted by this. Now I don't need as many set recharge bonuses and can focus on +hp, resistance, and regeneration. Dude this is insane lol. |
Let's see, Siphon is a 10% or 133.9 heal, enhancement for the very rare is 95+(.15*(112.5+33/3-100))+33*2/3 = 120.525, so 133.9 * 2.20525 = 295.3, every 4.62 seconds, so 64 HP/S healing. I'm at least picking up Physical Perfection with at least one slot, which gives me 26 HP/S of passive regeneration. That puts me at 90 HP/S of healing on my Super Reflexes. Not bad.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I'm going to be using the spiritual tree on several of my scrappers. The heal is not like the 4th numina bonus. It works in heal, regen, and +hp powers that can be enhanced with heal enhancements.
My SS/WP/soul brute on beta is rounded out nicely with it. Its going to look real good on my DM/SR scrapper as well as my /regens, my DB/ela, and my fire/fire scrapper.
The nubers work will have to be done with the others to figure out what will be needed the most. I know I can get them all but I want to know what works best so I can get that one first.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
Quote:
ROFL that is insane. I'm not sure I would be able to get that much recharge in SL without seriously sacrificing a lot of everything other than my soft cap.
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Originally Posted by Werner
What do you mean, the change in the recharge time itself?
Recharge Time = Base Recharge Time / (100% + Total Recharge Enhancement and Bonuses) So let's say you have Hasten and +85% recharge from set bonuses: Recharge Time = 15 seconds / (100% + 126.2% + 70% + 85%) = 3.935 seconds Or, if you want to be really unkillable (at the cost of DPS), you could use the extra recharge for a Siphon Life spamming chain. It's not going to work with Shield Defense without an insane build, but as an example I'm strongly considering Smite -> Boxing -> Siphon Life on my Super Reflexes. It takes +299% recharge in Siphon Life, so you're spamming it that fast. Plus Siphon Life's heal will be significantly boosted by the alpha slot. Too bad about my DPS. Let's see, Siphon is a 10% or 133.9 heal, enhancement for the very rare is 95+(.15*(112.5+33/3-100))+33*2/3 = 120.525, so 133.9 * 2.20525 = 295.3, every 4.62 seconds, so 64 HP/S healing. I'm at least picking up Physical Perfection with at least one slot, which gives me 26 HP/S of passive regeneration. That puts me at 90 HP/S of healing on my Super Reflexes. Not bad. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Question... I know most people will be playing level 50+ content, so it may be moot anyway, but if you exemp, even to 47-49, you'll lose the Alpha Bonus, right?
Quote:
I believe so.|
Originally Posted by Sir_Lionheart
Question... I know most people will be playing level 50+ content, so it may be moot anyway, but if you exemp, even to 47-49, you'll lose the Alpha Bonus, right?
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And how often do you exemplar below 50? All this gossiping is about the perfect scenario where you never exemplar down.
Characters!:
Pinny - Scrapper
Shadewing - Defender
@Pinny
With the I19 and I20 changes (so all the way to the very rare alpha slot enhancement), and some basic thoughts about how I will modify builds:
I'll be waiting to see how this all plays out in practice, of course, and having a good idea what I'll be able to do with builds isn't the same as actually figuring out how to do it, much less actually doing it. Still, it looks like it could be fun. Choosing one of my four to focus on from the start, though, that's tough! They're all so good!
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks