The game aggro tables seem broken to me

I have done in the past, and will again if you want, tests that show aggro working EXACTLY as Castle explained it to the Tanker forum and myself when he and Ghost Widow went through and actually found out how aggro works. I actually spent most of my playtime for a month on the test server doing exactly these types of experiments, and never once did I see it work any differently, as long as the Tanker had aggro.

The not loosing aggro even when you die is a result of how aggro 'deteriorates' from enemies. It's not a binary "I have aggro or I don't" type of thing, as you well know. Everything you do generates some Threat. That Threat level slowly erodes from an enemy if you do nothing else to him (though sight aggro should still not let this go down to zero if you're within range). Basically, if your Threat level hasn't eroded to zero before you're rezzed, then you are still on the enemy aggro list when you come back to life. Basically, death doesn't remove your Threat level, the enemy just knows enough not to target you while you're down.


As for the healing aggro: yes, healing does count as an action that will generate threat. However, it is very, very low. If the Tanker (or anyone else, for that matter) has done something to the mob, they should have generated more Threat and would remain the target of the enemy. I wouldn't be surprised if healing counted as a debuff in the threat formula, but I don't think that it counts anywhere in there, so it should be generating laughably small amounts of Threat (basically 1 * AT Mod * RangeMod).

When you say "the few times I play my empath", how much time have you put into playing a powerset with PBAOE heals? PBAOE, by definition, means you need to be close to or in the fight so your heals affect everyone there. Of course, this also means that you're now within the effects of AOE attacks. Are you getting pegged by single target attacks or just splashed by AOEs? I don't know about anybody else, but my play style has developed to the point where, no matter how bad the situation gets, I will hesitate momentarily to gauge whether I have enough time to run in before the enemies cycle to their AOE attacks.

It's not something I actively think about, anymore. I just use the time between the ranged heals and buffings to get a visual overview of where the enemies are concentrated compared to where my team mates are (I have "Show Player Health Bars = Always" set in Options). I take a moment to see what type of attacks the enemies are using, especially the bosses and lieutenants. I consider whether it is best to go for the PBAOE heal now or do my own AOE attack first distract them (my Emp Def is /Energy with Energy Torrent for the almost guaranteed knockdowns), then go for the PBAOE heal.

Your new to the game again, so I don't expect you to know the names of the farms, although the mechanic has existed for a while and logic would say the obvious....

Those farms are called "Ambush" farms for a reason. Ambushes will attack anyone in the previous area where the ambush was triggered, unless the player can move away quickly enough from the affected area. As for the moving part, yes, I've done it many times when solo, and I'm sure you have too without realizing it.

The mechanic involving buffing in my experience without the use of actual game mechanics, is that an enemy deems you as a threat, because you are increasing the surviveability of your team. AION & Guild Wars had a system for heal enmity, and I would be shocked if the mechanic didn't exist here. (NCSoft shifts designers around. I've spoken to an AION developer during a test server meet-up, who helped code the skill mechanics for Assassins on Guild Wars.)

I will point out that the single target heal has quite a good range, while the PBAoE heal requires you to be in the middle of the crowd. This is relevant because distance from the enemy affects your 'threat level' (i.e. how likely you are to be attacked).

In that case, it sounds like the Tank was doing something wrong. Specifically, it sounds like the Tank might have been attracting more agro that he was capable of hodling, which, as has already been explained, will cause the extra enemies to look for another target, such as yourself. Not your fault, not the game's fault, just a bad Tank.

By now I have 36 level 50 alts in Champions of all AT types and combos one could imagine, yes I am a hopeless Altoholic. That not counting my 50s on other servers as well :<)

Since I try to evenly play all of my alts, I can't say I play any AT or special build much. I do have a Psi/Emp Defender, Several flavor of the month Controller/Corruptress something/kin (giggles) I rifle thru.

By now all of my 36 of which 18 are hero and 18 are villain, are fully top IOd, and only 6 of them are missing some of the power giving or enhancing accolades.

Hopefully, that will give you a sense of how much or little I play, any given AT and power set.

I hear what many are posting, with so much confidence and bravado. But when I get on my support toons, and walk into the fray with PBAOEs, I do note that I do get single out, despite I have completely and totally avoided doing any damage attacks, in the case of my Emp Defender, all I done are buffs and heals, and yet I get singled out; despite our Tanker, Brute and Scrappers are making a mess out of the mobs. I understand the code says that will not happen, yet it does.

In general, I am not really complaining that this is happening, it actually gives me the challenge that a melee AT could not dream of affording me for they are so well designed and balanced.

My earlier post, was simple advise for a player playing a support type that is having a hard time staying alive. Frankly playing a support type, in certain TFs and missions and not dying once is not a give-me, as it would be for any melee type. The simple truth is, I shared my observations, my conclusions may not be correct of why the situations happened, yet the situation happened and at one time it killed me. In time, I observed what was the situation that was getting me killed (Scientific Method) and after seeing it how happened several times, I developed practices to help me deal with it.

Today, I rarely ever die or are defeated when I play my support alts; also I survive with out using the break-frees either. To me, that is a true measure of successful playing.

As I said, just try my suggestions, and find out if they do you any good.

Hugs

Sue, Aka Stormy

Well, I'd say that if it is not encountered anywhere in play, "the game" doesn't have healing aggro, even if "the code" has provisions for it. But that's a semantic argument, I admit.

Really? I've run several forcefield Defenders over the years, and I routinely combat bubble, because after fights the team wants to move onward. For years now I've flown into battle and cast bubble shields on everyone and never noticed aggro unless I used attacks (which I do, but generally after taking care of the team). I suppose it could be happening and, since I do blast, I'm mistakenly assuming it's aggro from blasting. But it's never jumped out at me as being buff aggro.

I'll pay more attention next time.

My Bad. It is the Eagles.

The subject of how a mob could hit a "Hidden" target became a subject of hot discussion back when stalkers first came into the game. Before that, cruising around the game invisible was very rare, fighting that way even more so. What seemed to finally get settled on based on combinations of player experiments and dev explanation is that unlike for players, aggro is a separate mechanism for mobs versus perception. We have to "see" something to target it, as many a frustrated PvPer finds out. Mobs don't, they use Math. :-)

The way mob perception AI works is that a mob has a perception range, where based on other factors in its AI, it will be "alerted". You sometimes see mobs stand up straighter and start looking around if you get close to them, even before they attack. At closer ranges, etc., they will be triggered to actually go attack you. Stealth, inviso, etc. change how THIS behavior works, and can make the range so short they never trigger. They may actually "see" you well before that, the perception AI just doesn't let them do anything about it.

Aggro, in the AI sense, is a separate formula. In addition to being accumulated (i.e. you "move up the list") by attacks, debuffs, stuff you would expect, you also get it just from being on the same team as someone who is attacking them. Foes can appear "pre-aggroed", easiest place to see this is the Katie TF, where as witch spawns appear, you can see a boss flying straight to where someone is cowering invisible behind a wall and attack them. The aggro formula doesn't *have* any perception radius terms in it, other than visual proximity being one of many factors that can add to aggro, so its completely possible for a mob to go after the stealth capped stalker.

Castle, I believe it was, also described "spawn aggro/spawn AI" which is code which causes different members of a spawn to do different things. Thus, if the scrapper charges into a group, rather than every member of the group going after him because he is closest, one or two will charge at his Emp buddy who is just standing there watching. Note that this is part of "aggro code", not "perception code" so inviso won't save you. A couple may stand back at range, while others move into melee. The idea is to try to give a bit more variety to how spawns react and make fights more interesting. This of course frustrates MMs with melee pets, who want them all in melee, or ranged pets who want them all at range, but its spawn AI at work.

The tl;dr version is, being able to "see" you is one thing that can cause a mob to attack you, but not the *only* thing.

Ah! The 1st mission in the Katie TF is a great example. It is so obvious there.

Unfortunately, hiding behind the collapsed structure was the old method of handling that mission, so newer players may not experience it. There's nothing like seeing 2-3 +4 witches make a beeline to you as soon as they materialized, even though you're face hugging the wall, and knowing that you're hosed.

Yes this isn't an easy fix by any means.

IIRC, Castle said the variable name in the code was "killTheHealer"