A way to fix the crab backpack "problem"
By
Devlin_Quaid,
Posted on: 2010-10-31 02:15 in Suggestions and Ideas
I like this idea, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here:
1) wings/capes would no longer be blocked and would clip through it
2) even with no endurance cost, it's another toggle to have to manage
3) it would have to be a power pick to be customizable
I'd say this qualifies as a 'weird backdoor' in and of itself... I can see a few things wrong with this.
1. Toggles can cause a backpack item to appear, like the jetpacks, but can they add the extra 'limbs' that are animated through the Crab powers?
2. It would cause horrible clipping unless you also somehow disallowed it with a cape, wing, or any other back-mounted item.
Interesting idea.
I think it could work a few ways, the most prominent would be treating it like a kheldian form is treated now.
You activate the "backpack". They could use any number of simple animations already in the game for this and enable the use of crab powers while still retaining the ability to use other powers as well while the "form" is active.
While the crab backpack is active, any capes you might have had dissapear in favor of the backpack.
Seems needlessly complicated. Imagine new crab spiders saying "why do I have to toggle this pack to use my powers? I don't have to for anything else!"
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Same logic applies to any toggle. Players can ask ,"Why should any AT have to toggle any power to use it when the game clearly has powers that are always on!"|
Originally Posted by Lurker Hunter
Seems needlessly complicated. Imagine new crab spiders saying "why do I have to toggle this pack to use my powers? I don't have to for anything else!"
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Just because someone might ask a question is not justification not to do it.
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Not necessarily, I can't think of one attack (outside of Kheldians' form changes) that requires the use of a toggle to function. Toggles that apply constant effects are normal, whereas Devlin's would be an anomaly.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Same logic applies to any toggle. Players can ask ,"Why should any AT have to toggle any power to use it when the game clearly has powers that are always on!"
Just because someone might ask a question is not justification not to do it. |
Of course, that wouldn't be grounds for not implementing his suggestion, just that other fixes (such as removing the bug) would be more ideal.
Also, just because you don't have the backpack always on doesn't mean capes and wings should be accessible. Keep blocking them for anyone who has chosen the crab path of advancement. Then you wouldn't have to worry about someone putting on a cape and having clipping issues when the toggle is activated.
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The point is, what about people who choose Crab with one build, and Bane with the second. The way you're putting it, is that when I choose the second build to be a bane, I'm not allowed to have a cape or wings, simply because when I choose my other build I've got a backpack I have to wear?|
Originally Posted by Next_Player
Also, just because you don't have the backpack always on doesn't mean capes and wings should be accessible. Keep blocking them for anyone who has chosen the crab path of advancement. Then you wouldn't have to worry about someone putting on a cape and having clipping issues when the toggle is activated.
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That's just as bad as when I'm on my Bane build currently I have to wear the backpack. I'm either forced to wear the backpack when I can't use it, or I'm forced to not wear a cape when I can't wear the backpack and I'm not using it.
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Why do you assume they would add a block to the Bane build to prevent you from using capes and wings? Seems your getting upset about a problem that doesn't exist.
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Originally Posted by Maniac_Raid
The point is, what about people who choose Crab with one build, and Bane with the second. The way you're putting it, is that when I choose the second build to be a bane, I'm not allowed to have a cape or wings, simply because when I choose my other build I've got a backpack I have to wear?
That's just as bad as when I'm on my Bane build currently I have to wear the backpack. I'm either forced to wear the backpack when I can't use it, or I'm forced to not wear a cape when I can't wear the backpack and I'm not using it. |
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Just start off, not upset in least. Just expressing my concerns about what was said.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Why do you assume they would add a block to the Bane build to prevent you from using capes and wings? Seems your getting upset about a problem that doesn't exist.
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And the reason I assumed that is because the way I read Next_Player's post led me to believe that was what he was proposing. With the toggle power to attach the backpack, a Crab not being able to use wings or a cape makes sense. If it is possible to not have that block when switching to a bane build, then that's fine, but consider costume changes. If I'm on my Bane build with a cape on, and I switch to my Crab build, then what happens to the cape? Does it just disappear? And then switching back to the Bane Build does it come right back, or would I have to run to the tailor and attach it again? To me, that just seems like a recipe for bugs.. but then I'm not a programmer in the least, and don't know how possible or impossible it would be. Just guess I'm pessimistic that way.
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It seems logical to me that if they design it so the crab pack disappears when you switch to a Bane build the reverse would be true for the cape when you switch from a Bane build to a Crab build.|
Originally Posted by Maniac_Raid
Just start off, not upset in least. Just expressing my concerns about what was said.
And the reason I assumed that is because the way I read Next_Player's post led me to believe that was what he was proposing. With the toggle power to attach the backpack, a Crab not being able to use wings or a cape makes sense. If it is possible to not have that block when switching to a bane build, then that's fine, but consider costume changes. If I'm on my Bane build with a cape on, and I switch to my Crab build, then what happens to the cape? Does it just disappear? And then switching back to the Bane Build does it come right back, or would I have to run to the tailor and attach it again? To me, that just seems like a recipe for bugs.. but then I'm not a programmer in the least, and don't know how possible or impossible it would be. Just guess I'm pessimistic that way. |
But I agree with you that I'm guessing as well and have no idea on the difficulty it would take to program.
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If they can't make the backpack flag turn off when you switch builds what makes you think they could do it with a no back slot item flag?
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Why do you assume they would add a block to the Bane build to prevent you from using capes and wings? Seems your getting upset about a problem that doesn't exist.
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I thought the problem was technical, not a design decision.
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How do you know they CAN'T? |
Originally Posted by Shadow State
If they can't make the backpack flag turn off when you switch builds what makes you think they could do it with a no back slot item flag?
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Just because they haven't done it yet doesn't mean it's not possible. There are literally dozens if not hundreds of little things the devs have put into the game after a long time that simply weren't a high enough priority to work on. Other features and issues were more important and took precedence.
If you can show us where the devs have told us this particular feature will never happen because of "fill in the blank" I would appreciate it. I've never seen it said, but if I'm wrong I'd like to know.
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Because they've said as much. I forget if it was Castle or BABs or one of the other red names who posted an apology that this was not working as they'd ideally like it to, but they had no way to change it to work any better.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
How do you know they CAN'T?
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The reason the Crab Spider backpack doesn't disappear on alternate builds is technical, not a design decision. Offering solutions to it is largely pointless because we'd need to offer technical solution, and Standard Code Rant always applies to those.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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As most of you know, if an SoA has any crab skills on either build, they can not remove the backpack, period. I thought of a "Simple" way to fix it.
Make it a toggle that doesn't cost endurance. Have it so, if you are not using the toggle (which gives you the crab backpack costume piece) you can't use the crab attacks. I was talking with a friend and this seemed the "easiest" that wouldn't take some weird backdoor.
Thoughts?