Is a Useful Pacifist Possible?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-10-28 20:08 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I think the Mastermind option is the best one, the MM's attacks are pretty much optional anyway and from a theme point of view if you're willing to help a bunch of other players beat bad guys up you should be willing to help the minions (just make the story that they aren't actually your minions). Mercenaries, Thugs or Ninjas would be the easiest since they are free-willed and as such you can easily make a back-story based around the idea that you're part of their team and supporting them rather than the other way around. The others are harder although if you want to you could come up with something (as MonkeySpirit demonstrates).
Think I lean toward the MM.
Actually, in a way it touches on one of my characters... a 'bots/pain MM. Former medic. Still goes around helping others with experimental surgical robots (er... yeah, that missile/flamethrower bit... um... sterilizing the room!) but, being robots that were programmed by an Asimov believer, well... they protect. Which means THEY do the defeating. But it's solely in self defense or defense of the MM.
.... really.
>.>
My Emp/energy is pretty close to this.
With Power Build Up and the entire Leadership pool and all her primary, she's left with only four powers from her secondary, and seldom uses one.
People might say /elec on defenders leaves you useless for combat, but /elec has the benefit of end sapping that's strongest on defenders, energy, only has KB.
But she's still a fierce ally on a team and I often find myself having little need to even use her heals since regen takes care of that, or Adrenaline boost.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Was thinking Rad/Dark defender. Rad will at least keep you busy since most teams seem to think if something is glowing, kill it first. Once you get your speed up lingering radiation is up at the begining of each spawn. Dark also is the only defender secondary that has a stun attack with no damage. Handy to stack with oppressive gloom to stun bosses.
Although the taunt bot sounds interesting too. Would say invuln or WP/stone. Fault is much better than handclap or lightning clap. Either that or /ice for ice patch.
A level 1 that only marketeers can make more than a farmer, but you said teams.
Illusion/Empathy, since powers have a heal bonus to explain that your attacks are illusions.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
ILL/COLD!
Illusion does damage, but it's all in their head.
Cold...well Sleet does damage, but not a lot.
Pacifist doesn't mean they can't defense themselves, and that's what you need to do!
Call the character "Sidekick X" and go to town! 
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Illusion can actually be used for a Pacifist to great potential, since the powers explicitly say that all the damage it deals is imaginary. You're not going to be breaking any bones, just scaring people into giving themselves up for arrest while remaining perfectly healthy.
From the support sets, I'd say Force Fields is the only one that truly fits the Pacifist idea. All of the other powersets include some debuffing component, or can strengthen your allies' damage output (like Empathy or Sonic) and that's not something a peace-lover should be doing (why would you give your allies an Adrenaline Boost if you don't want to see any bloodshed?). Setting up shields to prevent any damage being done to your side is one of the only ways to remain neutral. FF also comes with Personal Force Field, which is a great "I can't harm you and you can't harm me" power.
Like someone said before, there's also the possibility of completely avoiding combat by taking Gravity Control as a primary and either phasing out all enemy groups or teleporting them away. Your team will hate you, though.
Just go Ill/FF and solo everything.
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Modify this for demon summoning, demons more fit this than zombies.
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Originally Posted by MonkeySpirit
I think the Mastermind is going to be the most fun to play.
Go zombies/pain. And be a pacifist who's assailed by a horde of zombies that feed on his pain. The zombies have realized that it causes you pain to see other people get hurt, and so go around hurting anyone who happens to get close to you. When the pain gets too much, you shoot out waves of pain that the zombies feed on (i.e. get healed) and sometimes you let out a pained screamed asking for the zombies to stop, that paradoxically only makes them kill faster (resistance debuffing). Make a bind for the cowering emote, so you always have it at hand. |
When someone else suggested this awhile back, I made a natural ill/emp, and yes, he is a totally nonviolent person. His thing is pumping up his allies with steroids, medical nanites, surgical repair, and in releasing hallucinagenic chemicals onto the enemies. His name? Why, MK Ultra.... named after the CIA's top secret LCD experiments in the 1950's.
Mind Control or Illusion Control/Empath Controller
Avoid outwardly damaging or painful seeming powers (Levitate and Blind would be out) and just look at the enemy's "health" as their resistance to you peacefully putting them into a comatose state and ready for the police/Longbow to arrest and take in.
You could also be a Buddhist monk MA/ scrapper and state that your attacks land with the least amount of lasting damage and never actually kill anyone.
An Ice/Rad controller would make a pretty useful "no damage" toon. You still get 2 good debuff sets, and only HAVE to take one that does any damage. I don't think many teams would turn down an ice rad, even if they dont do any damage.
OR you could just take a regen stalker and no attacks but the first, (maybe every travel pool), then join a bunch of teams and let them PL u to 50. :P
Come on, guys, Empathy isn't peaceful! You're Fortifying your allies so that their punches hit harder and giving them Adrenaline Boosts to turn them into fighting machines! And if your allies at some point say they're tired of fighting, you just go and recharge their strength with your Recovery Aura! So they can go and hurt more people!
So much for a "pacifist" character.
Pure pacifism isn't exactly doable in this game as it revolves around combat. We're trying to find the least directly violent path.
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Oh that is even better than my Rad/Dark suggestion. Arctic air, shiver, ice slick and glacier all have no damage. Jack frost is toeing the line since he does the damage and not you. And even doing no damage you would still remain busy by debuffing and with CCs. Just about any secondary would be good to pair with Ice. Just stay away from the stuff that does damage and you are set. Sure it may not fall under the technical term pacifist, but that would be a very effective toon without ever causing damage to anyone. Granted they would be even more effective if they did cause damage but that is not what you are shooting for.
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Originally Posted by Strike_Hawk
An Ice/Rad controller would make a pretty useful "no damage" toon. You still get 2 good debuff sets, and only HAVE to take one that does any damage. I don't think many teams would turn down an ice rad, even if they dont do any damage.
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That's why I said a "pacifist" should avoid inciting others to violence. Any power that directly increases your comrades' fighting prowess cannot be considered "peace-keeping". The Empathy set as it stands now would only make for a hypocritical "do anything short of making my hands dirty" pacifist.
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Originally Posted by SuperFerret
Pure pacifism isn't exactly doable in this game as it revolves around combat. We're trying to find the least directly violent path.
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I certainly didn't expect such a hulabaloo about the definition of pacifist. If I had I would have chosen my words more carefully.
I just meant it in a very loose, general way.
The gist of what I was asking about was an intentional downplaying of the damage aspect of a toon in favor of other aspects.
Though there have been some spirited discussion which I havent finished reading yet
I have been playing with Mids' looking at Ill/Sonic/Psionic and Mind/Sonic/Psionic controller.
There're multiple confuses [and an enticing level status protection for a squishie] in the builds.
Wandering in invisibly and creating confusion and chaos in my wake has a certain appeal.
I made my pacifist as a Mind/FF/primal troller. His Roleplay theme as a "chi master" is that he never lays a hand or uses a weapon on anyone or anything. I can justify his concept my confusing the enemy (they beat thier own selves up while buffing my pals), sleeping them (cause bad guys need rest too!), or giving them massive headaches. Also, not taking any attacks from FF, I can soft cap all my team mates and with power build up, make a few nigh unhittable (with leaderships manuvers to help out). with PFF, i can snag alpha aggro in crappy situations. It works well, and with the inherant fitness, you can double tap terrorizing with the terror pool. I cant help it if people take massive cone damage when i say "boo!" (or grab the medicine pool)
One thing, it is a very team oriented guy and slow to solo, but with the cages and mezzes, he is very useful, especially on TF's. I have been a lvl 50 for a while and yet to lay a hand or weapon on anyone. works just fine.
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The main issue here is that for a lot of us, it seemed like you were implying that you'd like to make a Defender who doesn't use any of his blasting secondary. This is an attitude that is usually associated with poor players and people who seem not to want to understand that Defender blasts contribute greatly both as a source of damage and impairment of the enemy. At first glance, I and many others probably read your first statement as "can I play a pure healer and still be effective?".
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Originally Posted by all_hell
I certainly didn't expect such a hulabaloo about the definition of pacifist. If I had I would have chosen my words more carefully.
I just meant it in a very loose, general way. The gist of what I was asking about was an intentional downplaying of the damage aspect of a toon in favor of other aspects. Though there have been some spirited discussion which I havent finished reading yet |
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I read it as "can i make a guy who is a good team player who doesnt actually attack anything?" and yes you can. and yes, you can pick just about any defender or troller and focus more on power pools or just do not use attacking powers and do just fine. On alot of STF's and other TF's, i rarely use my secondary and i tend to focus more on keeping the team buffed, rez'd and powerful and less on blasting..(and he is an Emp/sonic fully sloted)|
Originally Posted by MonkeySpirit
The main issue here is that for a lot of us, it seemed like you were implying that you'd like to make a Defender who doesn't use any of his blasting secondary. This is an attitude that is usually associated with poor players and people who seem not to want to understand that Defender blasts contribute greatly both as a source of damage and impairment of the enemy. At first glance, I and many others probably read your first statement as "can I play a pure healer and still be effective?".
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now, after i shoot off the regen and recover aura, i can usually do a few here and there.
My mind/FF spends all of his time locking down groups and buffing people without attacking anyone. The most important thing about this game, to me, besides having fun, is finding a concept and costume that fit your toon (in your imagination of what he should be) and rocking that however you want. There are, within the parameters of the game, powers you should want or get, and some you probably will never use or need, but find the pros and cons, the strenghts and weaknesses, and figure out your playstyle...then through trial and error, find what fits!
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Heartily agreed. |
Originally Posted by Medic_brietz
The most important thing about this game, to me, besides having fun, is finding a concept and costume that fit your toon (in your imagination of what he should be) and rocking that however you want. There are, within the parameters of the game, powers you should want or get, and some you probably will never use or need, but find the pros and cons, the strenghts and weaknesses, and figure out your playstyle...then through trial and error, find what fits!
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My Earth/Kin/PF Controller, "Pillar of Peace", is a hero that escaped his war torn world to find a better life. The idea of throwing up some stone cages is to stop criminals in their tracks and offer them an opportunity to surrender. Any hold or debuff after that is simply to incapacitate them. Now Pillar has his little $#!t-tank, but the man has to defend himself from those that don't understand violence doesn't solve anything.
Do you have any idea how much this toon sucks to solo?
Thanks to everyone for their replies.
I have pretty much been playing brutes and stalkers for the past 4yrs. And I am examining the possibilities of something completely different.
And, yes, I completely understand how a toon of this nature would be inappropriate for solo play. But I already have toons that are great for solo play.
I have a Empathy/DP Defender sitting at 30-something, who has two attacks. The only reason he has TWO instead of ONE is because I ran out of useful pool powers at one point. I never use either of them, anyways. I fill my time healing, spamming CM/Fort/AB/RA's on the team, and not dying.
He has every Empathy power available, the entire Leadership pool (including Vengeance for those rare moments when you just can't keep EVERYONE from dying), Stealth, Recall Friend, etc.
For those that say "pure healer" Empathy defenders are worthless/not useful... You're full of crap. That is all.
Hm. That is interesting. I suppose technically there is nothing harmful about walking into the middle of a group of gang members and taunting them. But just letting yourself draw awareness aggro would be fine, if you were solo. In a team you wouldn't be able to protect anyone who got impatient very well.
This sounds like another character concept of mine, though.
In practice, though, just street sweeping in this way is boring. He still does missions like a normal hero, so he is more likely to initiate combat since he's not going to be able to "blend in" like on the streets. Then again, he'll usually open with like Siphon Power, to pull, and I'll role play it as him walking up and asking, "Which way is the bathroom?" or something like that. It's a distraction ploy, to disorient his foes and catch them off guard.
That's a good question, though, for a "pacifist" concept. Is a debuff an attack? Is a taunt? If you're goading your foe into attacking you, is it really pacifism that you don't strike first?