Broadsword for tankers sounds cool but tanks do get a few range attacks, super strengh and stone melee both get hurl boulder just fyi.
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ah yes nearly for got about [hurl], but indeed I've always wanted to see magic or energy slashing off a tanker's blade at enemies at range.
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Originally Posted by Lucky
Broadsword for tankers sounds cool but tanks do get a few range attacks, super strengh and stone melee both get hurl boulder just fyi.
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That's only two powersets, and three total that have a ranged attack (Kin melee being the third, four if you count lightning rod in electrical melee).|
Originally Posted by Lucky
Broadsword for tankers sounds cool but tanks do get a few range attacks, super strengh and stone melee both get hurl boulder just fyi.
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Otherwise Dark melee, Energy Melee, Battle Axe, War Mace, Ice Melee, Fiery Melee, and Dual Blades do not have any ranged attacks.
The big concern about katana and broadsword for brutes and tanks is parry/Divine avalanche making them far too survivable, considering it can boost Defense to lethal and melee to obscene levels. Steampunkette had an interesting suggestion of changing it on tankers and brutes to be a -Rech debuff. This would make it balanced for tankers, but it might still make brutes too survivable since Tankers have a lower debuff modifier than scrappers, stalkers, and brutes.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Shared melee sets generally ... don't have different powers, do they? At least, other than Stalkers, but then that's a requirement of the archetype.
Fiery Melee differs on Tankers, but don't most of the other ones just have the same attacks, swapping of course build up and confront/taunt's level?
Eh, either way, it would be nice to see the broad sword on a tanker.
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Generally because it's easier to just port things over unchanged. However, adding a powerset to an AT that never had it before does not invoke the Cottage Rule, because the AT is receiving a NEW powerset, not having an existing one tweaked. As such, you can rearrange powers, swap effects, even replace entire powers. The less work the better, obviously, but if Parry is somehow problematic, then Parry can be tweaked or replaced.
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Originally Posted by Tidbit Jr.
Shared melee sets generally ... don't have different powers, do they?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Can see a tanker only ever using parry that way nothing ever hits him. Kind of funny, kind of sad.
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Does parry somehow push you above 95% avoidance rule?
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Originally Posted by Tidbit Jr.
Can see a tanker only ever using parry that way nothing ever hits him. Kind of funny, kind of sad.
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Yeah I'd make one.
Cottage Rule is more like Cottage Guideline.
If Broad Sword ever got ported, Parry would definently be changed. It stacks right out of the box and is already provind a huge 15% per stack. Thats without SOs. You can easily get it to 22% with SOs and get it to stack 3 times. Not perfectly but it's still a huge amount of defense.
It might not be changed in the way it's used or it's effects but it'll be worked around. Perhaps a much longer cooldown or a much lower defense boost to compensate for Tanker's already-high surviveability.
Stone Armor/Broad Sword: Yes
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
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Actually, if ported to tankers, parry would REALLY need to be nerfed since it would give a tanker a +20% defense buff. They would only need to stack it twice, out of the box, and that's soft capped melee and lethal defense right there.
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Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
If Broad Sword ever got ported, Parry would definently be changed. It stacks right out of the box and is already provind a huge 15% per stack. Thats without SOs. You can easily get it to 22% with SOs and get it to stack 3 times. Not perfectly but it's still a huge amount of defense.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Well, it still softcaps there, but you can push it higher as far as total goes. The annoying part is that it needs to be reapplied often enough that it becomes part of your main attack chain.| Does parry somehow push you above 95% avoidance rule? |
And I meant it as a joke that Parry is so good, and somenoe would be so bored, that they would parry foes to death because there would be no more risk with the softcapped melee/lethal defense.
I agree with the people saying that Parry would need changing. It wouldn't be to bad with Defense based sets like Ice and Shields but when combined with resistance sets I think it would be to good. Outside of that I don't see any issues other than the old thematic reasons which frankly I don't care about.
concerning parry, as that seems to be the main focus of difficulties here, lets nerf it reasonably ourselves so we get what we want rather than having the devs do it and get undesired effects.
what we could do with parry is have it not allow you to exceed 95% Res from it's temporary activation buff (only there during activation) and of coarse it only adds to the damage to it's attack by the amount of damage it blocked anything that actually gets trough will not add to it's damage and will hurt the character.
naturally as with most PBAoE attacks they tend to have a long recharge time, because of this one's extra abilities I think it should have an even longer recharge time, OR possibly not allow recharge reduction enhancements to be slotted on it (or give very little reduction when slotted)
there should also be a temporary damage cap so it doesn't get too nasty. like; only so much damage can be added to it from the enemies attack's. a raw number should be used instead of a percent, like an extra 250 damage max can be added to it (not counting enhancements or other damage buffs). of coarse that number is figurative not final.
so in my summary;
PBAoE, gives a temporary def and res buff to all damage types (for 5 seconds during activation) that cannot force your def or res to exceed 95% to any one damage type. Damage: High (+max 250 from foes in melee range) recharge: very long (resists recharge reduction enhancements and buffs)
Err, what exactly are you trying to do to Parry? The only really inherent problem with it is that its defense buff is too good on a Tanker for a direct port.
Changing it to a point-blank and giving it buffs to both resistance and defense, and having it buff damage, and having it do not only good damage, but HIGH damage, is really far out there.
Or you could replace it with an attack that does something different, like a range attack...lol throw sword.
Or mabye a toggle that buffs to hit to all nearby allies or something. The set would have to be somewhat different from the Axe set. We don't want a sword set thats a literal mirror to broad axe. If it was then I'd simply suggest renaming broad axe into 'Medieval Edge' and giving the set the option to be either a sword or an axe from the customization menu. But I don't want to do that honestly.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
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Realistically though Broad Sowrd IS a clone of War Axe and War Mace. The original dev plan seems to be that Broad Sword/Katana were for the more offensive AT (Scrapper) while Axe and Mace were for the defensive AT (Tanker). Consequently Axe and Mace have damage mitigation through control (knockdown/up and stun respectively) while the sword sets primarily have -def debuffs and provide only passive mitigation through a defense buff. In theory the mitigation through control should be better than mitigation through defense (since control is 100% mitigation) it's just that with the current state of the game mitigation through defense is more than sufficient and a lot more convienient.
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Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
Or mabye a toggle that buffs to hit to all nearby allies or something. The set would have to be somewhat different from the Axe set. We don't want a sword set thats a literal mirror to broad axe. If it was then I'd simply suggest renaming broad axe into 'Medieval Edge' and giving the set the option to be either a sword or an axe from the customization menu. But I don't want to do that honestly.
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They are pretty similar, though Axe and Mace get a couple more heavy-hitters than Broad Sword and Katana. At least, for their archetype. Parry/Divine Avalanche (man, aren't we tired of talking about THAT power yet?) is the biggest difference between the two pairs.
Other than that though, Axe and Mace just have more attacks labeled "superior" damage than Sword and Katana. Well, that and the recurring control effects instead of debuffs.
Man I love knockdown. 
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that whole statement was just to throw something out there to start with.|
Originally Posted by Tidbit Jr.
Err, what exactly are you trying to do to Parry? The only really inherent problem with it is that its defense buff is too good on a Tanker for a direct port.
Changing it to a point-blank and giving it buffs to both resistance and defense, and having it buff damage, and having it do not only good damage, but HIGH damage, is really far out there. |
the reason I put that is because parry right now is more scrapper oriented, it needs to become more like a tanker would use, slow but powerful, however we can obviously turn down that power potential if you think it still needs nerfing:
PBAoE, gives a temporary 20% res and 5% def buff to all damage types (for 3 seconds during activation) that cannot force your def or res to exceed 90% to any one damage type. Damage: Medium (+max 250 from foes in melee range) recharge: very long (resists recharge reduction enhancements and buffs)
there changed some numbers to be more reasonable, now stop complaining and try to help ^^
3 seconds of high but limited def/res followed by a nasty PBAoE move sporting medium damage + a possible 250 extra points. recharge; lets say 3 mins
animation on a tanker: I think the tanker should raise the blade up and point it down at an angle in the direction of the first attacker, then with shoulder, arm, waist and foot work movements quickly change poses to block more attacks from other enemies, then suddenly flip the tip of the blade up and with a wrist motion flick it heavily down then up while spinning making the tip of the blade follow a sort of curve down crescent path slashing all foes in range (possible knockback quality)
All of you are WRONG about parry. If parry was the problem then ToF in the DM set would have never made it.
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Touch of Fear only incapacitates one foe at a time, who still retaliates if attacked.| All of you are WRONG about parry. If parry was the problem then ToF in the DM set would have never made it. |
Parry grants a big bonus to Lethal and Melee defense as long as you keep it up and stacked, which all foes are subject to.
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Yes because a power that boosts your melee defense against all targets and a power that provides a fear effect and to hit debuff to one target present the same set of balance problems.|
Originally Posted by JohnX
All of you are WRONG about parry. If parry was the problem then ToF in the DM set would have never made it.
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The mitigation provided by Parry (especially when paired with a resistance based set) is a LOT higher than the mitigation provided by Touch of Fear.
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calm down, this isn't an argument this is a forum; gathering information so we can make a request to try and make this power-set available to tankers how everyone wants it.|
Originally Posted by JohnX
All of you are WRONG about parry. If parry was the problem then ToF in the DM set would have never made it.
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my opinion holds no more sway than any other one person, the way it works is majority rules, so lets together try and figure out how we want this on a tanker.
no use calling people wrong or anything merely state your opinion calmly and everyone will listen ^^
I will admit I wanted to create a very awesome attack for PBAoE on the tank, that was my sole purpose for trying to alter parry to begin with.
I'm actually most interested in getting a broad sword tanker with a ranged energy slash move.
Nah. The other guy did give me a good idea, though. Turn parry into a -tohit debuff.
Edit: It still fills it's role of added defense, but only against the target and not everyone.
I've been looking around at different archetypes and power-sets and I took a look at the broad sword power set for scrappers. I must admit I like it alot, but I would much rather prefer it on a tanker.
so this is a suggestion request for a Broad Sword power set on a Tanker.
it should be basically the same but more focused on raw powerful swings of the sword.
differences, as we know from archetype to archetype similar power-sets have different attacks and such
I would very much like to see 2 things in particular for this archetype:
the PBAoE move should be called Parry Strike or something like that, the ability of parry strike is it blocks all attacks coming at your character for a short time, then adds their damage to one powerful PBAoE Strike at all enemies in melee range.
number 2, I'd like to see something I've never seen on a tanker before, at least 1 Ranged move, possibly later on in the power set. it should pack a big punch (ranged, lethal, Energy damage) but have a long recharge time. I'd like to see the character beable to charge a blast of energy ont he blade's edge and then slash the sword sending a powerful wave of energy through the air.
also please make the sword extra big in the tanker's hands please ^^.