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Nice idea on the pet. |
Originally Posted by Donna_
I have a 50 io'd Sonic/Sonic and I love her to bits, it's def a team toon tho... if you want to solo switch to Red side get a patron and a Pet to place your disrupting ring on.
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What I love best about my sonic/sonic is the simple phrase that happens after almost every TF he goes on. "That went smoother than I thought".
I've personally taken it upon myself to educate the masses when I go on a TF. I usually make a fan when it comes to an AV and they see what benefit having a sonic/sonic can add as the AV melts much faster than they thought it would or could.
Team char? definitely advantages that way, but i have no real issues solo either. Course I'm not farming with him.
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Well, if a base def & to hit debuff of 35.7% is terrible, I dunno what else to say (6-slot w/Clouded Senses for a lousy 51.4% to hit debuff!). I mean, forget the unreliable KD, holds, the slows, -recharge, -fly & the tiny damage... well, no, those all add up too. But, damn, a 51% to hit debuff in a 25' rad, and ppl wanna dismiss the power, because... what? Too long of a recharge? Sure, so is EMP, and that sucks, right? Things run out of it? Stand it in yourself--it's not like anything's going to hit you.|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
And Liquefy was the most sucktastic tier 9 I have every experienced. I know people will defense until the cows come home but for that that power was just terrible.
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Yeah, I hear the cowbells. I'll stop now. Wait, just once more... 51% to hit debuff!
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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I have a sonic defender and a sonic troller. I would totally disagree that it "just plain sucks" and totally disagree that it is a FF clone (with resistance instead of defense). It is NOT a good solo powerset, but every team I join cheers when I come on board. FF doesn't have the extra debuff which makes sonic totally a different set (heck even if it's shields were defense based, it would still be different because of the debuff). It debuffs from a teammate and has a single target debuff!
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Originally Posted by Airhammer
Sonic. Hands down. I had a level 50 Sonic and deleted it. Sonic just plain sucks. It is basically a FF clone with resistance instead of defense. The worst part is that the main AoE -res power has to be attached to an ally making it totally USELESS solo. It should work like the Trick Arrow Disruption arrow as a Location AoE but it doesnt. Also Liquefy is a horrible tier 9 power. Its timer is far too long.
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Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers
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Yeah I played it to 50 and had no idea how the set worked..|
Originally Posted by LostHalo
So what you're saying here is that you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Yeah whatever man..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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Very simple. I hated the power. I hated the recharge. I hated the way it worked. The hold was not reliable and I felt I could get much better use out of my Rad slotted in less slots... |
Originally Posted by dave_p
Well, if a base def & to hit debuff of 35.7% is terrible, I dunno what else to say (6-slot w/Clouded Senses for a lousy 51.4% to hit debuff!). I mean, forget the unreliable KD, holds, the slows, -recharge, -fly & the tiny damage... well, no, those all add up too. But, damn, a 51% to hit debuff in a 25' rad, and ppl wanna dismiss the power, because... what? Too long of a recharge? Sure, so is EMP, and that sucks, right? Things run out of it? Stand it in yourself--it's not like anything's going to hit you.
Yeah, I hear the cowbells. I'll stop now. Wait, just once more... 51% to hit debuff! |
As I said in my post. Other people who enjoy it will defend it until the cows come home and thats great for you and if you enjoy it great and if you like playing it great for you and I would welcome a sonic on my team but FOR ME it sucked.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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Originally Posted by shaggy5
I have a sonic defender and a sonic troller. I would totally disagree that it "just plain sucks" and totally disagree that it is a FF clone (with resistance instead of defense). It is NOT a good solo powerset, but every team I join cheers when I come on board. FF doesn't have the extra debuff which makes sonic totally a different set (heck even if it's shields were defense based, it would still be different because of the debuff). It debuffs from a teammate and has a single target debuff!
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Lets get this straight again.. I hated it. I think it sucks. I didnt like it. I didnt enjoy it... You enjoy it.. great.. You have fun with it great for you. I didnt like the way the set worked or was designed. Ill play with ANY person and ANY AT if a sonic shows up and the person plays it well.. hooray... just dont ask ME to play it..
And I think scrappers suck too.. Hate playing em.. cant stand em...and ill take one on my team anytime...
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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The Sonic Disruption field is targeted on allies not enemies. If you kept on trying to put disruption field on enemy mobs its not much of a surprise that it didn't work very well. |
Originally Posted by Airhammer
I hated the fact that my disruption field HAD to be targeted on an enemy while the friggin trick arrow could shoot theirs to a location. I found that utterly stupid especially since I am supposed to be the master of all things sonic.
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Also running a toon all the way to 50 then deleting it because you hated it? Given that you can get all the primary powers after 32 it seems odd that it took another 18 levels of suffering to figure out it wasn't for you.
If I don't like it after I get to level 25 or so there is no tier 9 power in the game that will save a set for me.
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That's just terrible.
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Originally Posted by Airhammer
HELP, I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT
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Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
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Mistake I made because I was typing quickly from work.|
Originally Posted by Arondell
The Sonic Disruption field is targeted on allies not enemies. If you kept on trying to put disruption field on enemy mobs its not much of a surprise that it didn't work very well.
Also running a toon all the way to 50 then deleting it because you hated it? Given that you can get all the primary powers after 32 it seems odd that it took another 18 levels of suffering to figure out it wasn't for you. If I don't like it after I get to level 25 or so there is no tier 9 power in the game that will save a set for me. |
And so what I played it to 50 and then deleted it because I didnt like it. As I said before people will defend the set and thats great if it worked for them but I personally hated it and would never play it again. I think it sucks, thats just my opinion.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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Well from your description it sounds like you didn't like playing it at any point. Most people can figure out by level 24 after they have most of a sets signature powers whether its something they enjoy. Certainly after level 32. It sounds to me you were loathing Sonic Resonance before you got to 32 so why bother pushing all the way to 50 doing something your not having fun with?|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
And so what I played it to 50 and then deleted it because I didnt like it...I think it sucks, thats just my opinion.
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I've mentioned and seen mentioned by others that not all power sets or ATs appeal to all people. Merely because you didn't like it doesn't mean it sucks.
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::looks at the tank in his signature::|
Originally Posted by Arondell
why bother pushing all the way to 50 doing something your not having fun with?
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Uhm...I thought it would get better once I hit epics.
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Originally Posted by Arondell
... It sounds to me you were loathing Sonic Resonance before you got to 32 so why bother pushing all the way to 50 doing something your not having fun with?
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Well that's easy for me to answer...
1.) Because they're an OCD type person where they "have to" complete a toon just because.
2.) Somewhat along the same lines of # 1 but, maybe cause they wanted 1 lvl 50 of each AT (or powerset...yikes that's a lot). I know for myself, I HATED (still do for the most part) my Peacebringer...but I kept going and finally got him to 50...only (main) reason I kept going was I wanted a lvl 50 of each AT.
3.) As Garent said, maybe cause they thought that after getting epics/APPs or IO'ing out the toon that it'd be better.
Those are three reasons that I could think of real fast to answer the question...might be more!
But yes, I'd vote Sonic Resonance for the least played primary for Defenders...with Traps a close second. Me, personally, would make a sonic res. before a traps Def. because I think Traps is a better secondary than a primary (I have a Mercs/Traps MM).
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
Liquify FrankenSlotting For Dummies.
All level 50
Achilles' Heel: Chance for Res Debuff (20% chance to apply -20% Resist All)
Analyze Weakness: Accuracy/Defense Debuff
Siphon Insight: Accuracy/ToHit Debuff
Touch of Lady Grey: Defense Debuff/Recharge
Dark Watcher's Despair: ToHit Debuff/Recharge
Dampened Spirits: To Hit Debuff/Recharge
With Hasten up it recharges in 120 seconds before any other global recharge. So every 2 minutes, give or take. Probably take, if your build is IO'd.
ToHit Debuff: -52.49%
Defense Debuff: -53.94%
Resistance Debuff: -20%, 1 in 5 affected on average, stacks with other sonic -res.
It's only at about 78% recharge from Enhancements, so if you wanted to trade Defense Debuff or ToHit Debuff for a bit more recharge, you could. Accuracy is 53% so it will most likely hit.
Forget the crappy damage or chance to hold, between the knockdown and the greater than 50% reduction in Defense and ToHit that comes up every 2 minutes even if you're a slacker and don't go for any other global recharge, the power is awesome.
It's fine if somebody doesn't like something, but not all opinions are created equal. If somebody tells me they dislike the act of breathing and think it sucks that they have to do it to survive, I'm not going to treat that opinion with any great respect. Irrational is irrational, no matter the subject. If you want to say you dislike an aoe power that every 2 minutes can completely neuter a group of up to 16 enemies (hint, EMP is not really in the same class), that's your prerogative, and it's mine to say that your opinion is more about irrational dislike than any of the faux-reasons you keep trying to assert.
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This is pretty much along the lines. I played it all the way to 50 and slotted it out and simply decided after playing it for a long time that I didnt like it and deleted it. |
3.) As Garent said, maybe cause they thought that after getting epics/APPs or IO'ing out the toon that it'd be better. |
I deleted an Ice/Ice blaster after level 35 because I found I like the Cold/Ice defener better.
I deleted a Rad/Fire blaster after level 35 because I decided to make a Shield/Fire tank instead.
I deleted an Ice/Stone Tank at level 32 and then went back and remade him all the way to 50...
I pretty much found that I didnt like Liquefy. I didnt like the fact that the -res AoE power had to toggled onto an ally..
And all that defense and to hit debuff in six slots.. I can get that same amount with a Radiation defender in the tier one with three slots and three enzymes and I can have it up all the time.
I am not telling the people who enjoy it that they suck, nor do I think its necessary to attempt to denigrate or belittle the people who do. My opinion will remain the same. I think it sucks.. I think it could be better and I think it SHOULD be better.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
The -ToHit (and -Defense) in Liquefy are exactly identical to Radiation Infection or Darkest Night. Liquefy is basically an unmovable version of those powers with 1/3rd to 1/6th the uptime that adds a small chance for knockdown (3% per pulse versus 5% in Freezing Rain, 8% in Earthquake or 9% in Ice Slick), a remote chance for a negligible hold (4 seconds long on minions only), and about 40 damage. The damage and hold, from what I can gather, are one-time and do not pulse. Some part of the power has a ToHit check but I'm not sure which part, I'd guess the Hold and Damage.
IMO Liquefy is "ok." It's not world changing and it's not terrible, it just is. If Radiation Infection had a 300 second recharge time and a small chance to knockdown I'd feel the same way.
[EDIT: Added sentence to end and corrected recharge time from 500 to 300]
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and thats a lot of my problem as a tier 9 its really not a lot better than the tier 1 or tier 2 of other sets and those other you can reactivate much faster.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
The -ToHit (and -Defense) in Liquefy are exactly identical to Radiation Infection or Darkest Night. Liquefy is basically an unmovable version of those powers with 1/3rd to 1/6th the uptime that adds a small chance for knockdown (3% per pulse versus 5% in Freezing Rain, 8% in Earthquake or 9% in Ice Slick), a remote chance for a negligible hold (4 seconds long on minions only), and about 40 damage. The damage and hold, from what I can gather, are one-time and do not pulse. Some part of the power has a ToHit check but I'm not sure which part, I'd guess the Hold and Damage.
IMO Liquefy is "ok." It's not world changing and it's not terrible, it just is. |
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Ugh. I retract my derision. For some reason I had it in my head that RI was lower base debuff than Liquify. That's what I get for playing Controllers instead of Defenders usually.
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Some sets have good T9s, some don't. FWIW, Liquefy is more generally useful than Force Bubble or Time Bomb from 32 to 50.
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Originally Posted by Airhammer
and thats a lot of my problem as a tier 9 its really not a lot better than the tier 1 or tier 2 of other sets and those other you can reactivate much faster.
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No longer responding to Airhammer, since he's made up his mind, as is his right, but since others have joined the fray, I feel the need to comment for the benefit of those considering Sonic, and its tier 9 power: Comparing Liquefy to RI is silly. Both have positives over the other, but to say that RI by itself supplants Liquefy is ridiculous.
First off, Liquefy has a higher base, 35.7 vs. 31.25. Not a lot, but there you have it. 2nd, RI takes 3.1s (+Arcanatime) to cast--there's a reason why a lot of Rads don't bother with it on fast moving teams . yes, Liquefy takes a while to cast too, so this isn't such a huge advantage for Liquefy, but... 3rd, RI has a 15' radius vs. 25' for Liquefy. That's a huge difference, even though RI is mobile (but then, that's also a disadvantage). 4th, RI is anchored, and you all know what that means, esp w/that 3.1+ animation time. 5th, RI doesn't do all of the other extras that in fact do make Liquefy an I Win button, at least for that fight. I've cast RI in many hopeless seeming fights and still have gone down--we all likely have, and pretty often at that. I rarely lose a fight after Liquefy is cast.
Does RI hold advantages over Liquefy? Sure, mostly because it's available every fight. It's also a nearly set-defining power, not quite the "oh crap" tier 9 that Liquefy is (tho maybe it can serve as one). Maybe we should compare it to EMP instead, a comparable tier 9?
Same recharge. Same, I Win feel (tho I've lost more fights after EMP than after Liquefy). Worse drawbacks w/the -end recovery. Better radius, though. Better effects? Debatable--both have advantages in certain situations. Still, I don't see too many ppl saying EMP sucks even w/the same recharge. And yes, it too can be supplanted by any controller PBAoE (in that same "sorta" way Liquefy can be supplanted by RI), including Flash at a mere lvl 6.
Another 300s recharge power would be Adrenaline Boost, and Speed Boost can replicate many of the primary effects, except you can boost the whole team, all the time. Again, I don't see too many ppl thinking AB sucks, or is even merely "okay". SB is a great power. AB is even better, if rarer to come by. RI happens to be a fantastic power, but Liquefy is far better, if again rarer.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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I want to say the hold component has a ToHit check, because the minor damage seems to hit reliably, but I will have to do some testing. I do know that power build up does work with Liquefy though, which is a good way to magnify its potency.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
The -ToHit (and -Defense) in Liquefy are exactly identical to Radiation Infection or Darkest Night. Liquefy is basically an unmovable version of those powers with 1/3rd to 1/6th the uptime that adds a small chance for knockdown (3% per pulse versus 5% in Freezing Rain, 8% in Earthquake or 9% in Ice Slick), a remote chance for a negligible hold (4 seconds long on minions only), and about 40 damage. The damage and hold, from what I can gather, are one-time and do not pulse. Some part of the power has a ToHit check but I'm not sure which part, I'd guess the Hold and Damage.
IMO Liquefy is "ok." It's not world changing and it's not terrible, it just is. If Radiation Infection had a 300 second recharge time and a small chance to knockdown I'd feel the same way. [EDIT: Added sentence to end and corrected recharge time from 500 to 300] |
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Originally Posted by BurningChick
Some sets have good T9s, some don't. FWIW, Liquefy is more generally useful than Force Bubble or Time Bomb from 32 to 50.
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Time Bomb sucks...
Force Bubble.. my MM likes it..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
To be honest, if they were to remove the hold component, and in return increase the knockdown chance, or decrease the recharge time of the power that would be nice. Slotting up the hold is pretty much utterly useless, and coupled with the fact you don't know what has been hit with the debuff it is not surprising that Liquefy is viewed as mediocre.
Sonic, probably. I don't see too many Trappers either but I do see them occasionally. I haven't seen a Sonic Resonance defender other than myself in over a year.
Personally, I love sonic and liquify both. My sonic defender has his slotted with 3 recharge and 3 of the hami debuff enhancers. As several others have mentioned, liquify is one of the most powerful "off buttons" for a group of baddies.
To actually be on topic, I haven't teamed with a traps defender yet, but I haven't played a whole lot since they got proliferated. Sonic defenders are very rare, I think I've only seen a handful since they got released.
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~