Tyrants Super Hero Name

He was talking about the Primal Earth Miss Liberty. Who is a scum-sucking pile of garbage who throws away the lives of promising individuals by the hundred every hour or so.

That's not even including the fact that she equips her troops with Flamethrowers and releases them into heavily populated areas with a lot of flammable debris lying around.

Shall we go into the fact that she's running a private army into a sovereign nation recognized and protected by the UN to try and depose the current ruler, regardless of the legitimacy of his rule..?

It's amazing the Nukes haven't already started flying between the US and the Etoille, all things considered. She's literally invading another country without governmental consent or backing. Intra-governmental treaties don't even exist for the world of hurt she's inviting on herself in a legal sense.

True proof that Steven Richter is a comicbook villain rather than a real person: Miss liberty hasn't been arrested and/or killed.

-Rachel-

This is very true. For all hints and purposes, Longbow can be perceived as a terrorist organization.

First thing first, you're obviously putting in RL world laws and such, when in CoH verse would obviously be different than RL world laws.

There's also already inconsistencies from what the game lore says to how it happens in RL.

And she doesn't throw away lives. Those who join Longbow, volunteer, and know what they're getting into. Not to mention, if it was as many lives as people like to say it is, there would not only be a population problem about now, but there likely wouldn't be any Longbow either.

She's just the Atlas Park trainer - she's not the one who sends people to the Hollows

Civilians are invincible

That current ruler is a supervillain - he's there to be taken down

Stalkers keep stealing the launch codes.

Heroes go to the Rogue Isles quite a lot to stop the latest mosutache-twirling antics of Reclsue and his thugs - like it's not just the STF, there are the Tip missions like the one to rescue prisoners from Arachnos that sends us right into Grandville to free them.
Recluse is a criminal, so whatever rules or laws he makes don't count - if people in the Rgiue Isles need help, then we can go there and help them.
Not all the time, of course - that'd kinda weaken the red side atmosphere if every second superpowered person you saw there was a hero

Well, he's tried to kill lots of heroes - it's kind of his main hobby - it's just that he's a bit of a failure, that's all

Well, you know what they say, "One person's terrorist, is another person's freedom fighter."

Also, Longbow are registered heroes, just like player characters. One has to figure that law only works in the US, and when outside of the US, they're acting on their own accord.

Seeing as hiow the US and the Rogue Isle's don't likey have any real treaty of sorts, if the Longbow are caught in the RI's, they're under RI laws, with the US not having much to do with it.

The same can be said of the Archnos who invade Paragon.

And from what I gathered, Archnos attacked/invaded Paragon (thusly the US) before Longbow ever setup shop.

Or do you think the Archnos's invasion of the Zig and release of known criminals isn't an act against the US?

Longbow get caught in RI, the US can simply disavow them easily enough. Or say they're rogue and thusly not under their control. Lord Recluse can also do they same with any Arachnos caught.

Point being, it's a comic book setting, with a backstory not fully set, that I wouldn't put RL rules into it so much.

Blue Steel became a police officer at 18. And to my knowledge, no place in the US in RL allows 18 year olds to become a police officer (outside of military police), with the age needing to be 21.

So obviosuly laws in CoH world are vastly different from RL laws, and making in correlation between the two becomes a work of frustration really.

He's not a failure at it.

Heroes just medi-port out before he can kill them.

*Recluse goes for killing blow*

*Hero medi-ports out*

*Recluse seethes with anger* We'll meet again!

To add to this: he usurped power from the original President of the Rogue Isles and claimed it for himself. If you're going by right of succession through assassination, than you're villain is the technical, rightful president of the Isles.

Finally, Of course lord Recluse isn't going to arrest Ms. Liberty. He's a Big Bad, and she's his niece, he likes the idea of driving her to do her longbow thing to not only add more "Survival of the Fittest" obstacles, and because he's trying to drive her into corruption and evil.
He won't arrest her. Oh no... He'll wait for the world she fights for to arrest her, and then he'll bust her out when her dear Grandfather won't.
And he'll make her train the new Destined Ones in Mercy.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

The game world is based on the real world with some specific changes (Superheroes, the Might makes Right act, Rikti War, etc) but generally you're supposed to assume that things are the same, aside from where you're specifically told they're different.

Gravity still works beyond specific ability to circumvent it, for example. People still go shopping in grocery stores and sometimes pick up a pizza or bucket of chicken on the way home from work. Should we assume thos things -don't- happen, as they normally would, since the game world doesn't expressly state it? Sometimes you have to apply real-world logic to the game world.

And if a group of licensed people who were licensed by a Law Enforcement agency, basically deputizing them for active crime-prevention and criminal recovery services, were to invade another nation and attack that nation's citizens: the backlash would be horrendous.

If a bunch of off-duty NYPD officers went to a middle eastern nation and started attacking any citizen who they suspect of being an insurgent or terrorist, they'd be rightly apprehended by the government, tried, and convicted.

That's basically what's happening, in this case. And that army of NYPD officers is taking orders from a publicly known figure, the connection is well known.

This page contains plenty of telling information. Both the blatant acknowledgment that Libby put the group together, and the fact that the Flame units hide when the press is around to keep people from being exposed to their use of weapons that are, according to the rules of war, banned from use.

They even put the word Heroic in Parentheses.

And then you get into the Vanguard/Longbow fighting issues which shows a private military organization putting itself above and ahead of a United Nations military force.

Regardless of their intent, their method is horrid. And as for my comment on throwing them to their death: Guardians are wet-behind-the-ears do-gooders looking to prove themselves. Most don't last beyond their first encounter with the big bad bruisers of the Rogue Isles.

Quote from the Longbow Guardians information.

Can you imagine what would happen if, for example, Bill Gates used his vast fortune to hire, equip, -maybe- train, and dispatch an army overseas to attack citizens and soldiers in another nation? The backlash from the US Government would be bad enough... Add in the use of Flamethrowers and it would be... Wow... just -insane-.

That's basically what's happening here. And the difference between a Longbow Agent and a Freedom Fighter: Longbow is an external force INVADING the nation they seek to free. They are not, under any circumstances, Freedom Fighters which are groups primarily made up of the Oppressed.

Stop for a moment, and realize you're on the same side of this discussion as the Ideological Imperialist. That should be a big warning for you.

-Rachel-

This is always part of my problem with Longbow. If I had it my way I would revise the group to be a bit more obviously good guys, at least in the beginning.
Have the ones you see in Mercy yellow box so they don't attack you, they'd be doing things like offering relief to the civilians living in the gutters of the Isles.
This would also help drive home that you are a villain. About everything in Mercy outside fort darwin has tried to kill you accept these guys who would politely try to ask and reason with you not to attack, or even tell you "it's not too late to change yourself" and you kill them and crush hope for Rogue Isle citizens for easier EXP.
As you move up, they get more militant, you see people in their ranks who look like SWAT team, etc. they're trying to provide a relief force and offer a way to get out of the Isles for those who want to, but in order for you, as a villain, to continue your story, keep earning rewards and such, you keep killing them.
Finally, you start seeing how they've begun to work to counter you, they entomb the minds of their fallen into Malta Titan-esque machines, they consort with the worst of the worst and have forgotten helping the downtrodden to get revenge on you for all their comrades you've killed.
The story would conclude that you, as a villain, over the course your play drove Longbow from being a relief organization in the militant, psychopaths, we see presently in the game.

Of course, another thing to consider about longbow being so abhorrent was that it was to make it EASIER to fight them in the player's minds who might be used to doing hero things and ease them into the dark side.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

NATO doesn't have authority to invade nations without a UN mandate. The UN still exists in the CoX universe, and it recognises the Etoile Isles as a sovereign nation.

Therefore, NATO troops are invading a sovereign nation in violation of UN mandates. The only reason there's no huge outcry is because it's the US doing the invading (and there's no indication that the balance of power in the world is any different than today, with one exception I'm about to touch on) and because the only nation with the power to do anything about it are the Etoile Isles themselves, due to their large super-powered population (and they do respond, largely with a blanket statement saying "kill Longbow, we don't care" to all those aforementioned supers.)

Please link to the supporting evidence, please?

This says that the Freedom Corps has no direct connection to any government agency, and was created by two private citizens. Longbow is part of the Freedom Corps.

-Rachel-

They don't seem to be too concenred about us arresting and locking up the leader of that "soverign" state at the end of the STF
Athough the UN is probably well aware of the revolving doors on the cells at the Zig, so by the time they passed a resolution about Recluse being arrested, he'd already have escaped

Perhaps Lady Gray should get Vanguard to step in and stop it?

It's not because it's American heroes invading - it's because Arachnos are well known across the world as major jerks

If you make an assumption that cause the world within the story to not make sense then you probably made the wrong assumption. We don't know the full wording of the Citizens Crime Fighting Acts and assuming it had no effect on foreign policy, and by extension international laws that followed them, is rather illogical.


I don't think that's the page you wanted to link.

Suppliers don't always -give- training or weapons away.

And almost certainly not to people who don't work for them, directly.

They could just be -buying- the stuff, rather than getting freebies. In which case it's not supported, but supplied.

-Rachel-

I don't think NATO is really in the arms-dealing business

They're a military and political alliance that can operate otuside the UN, and with the constant Arachos-sponsored atatcks on American soil, it's only natural that they'd help Freedom Corps fight back.

Technically... http://www.nato.int/issues/arms_disa...rol/index.html They shouldn't be giving arms to ANYONE.

-Rachel-

Disarming Arachnos would go a long way towards helping world peace

Maybe... But Arming Longbow would not.

-Rachel-

Also, the NATO treaty is about everyone helping if one member is attacked, so with Arachnos attacking America, the other NATO members are required to help - but rather than sending their own superheroes, their governments might decide to help supply Freedom Corps instead.

Arachnos won't disarm of their accord - they need prompting