Farming archtype
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2010-10-20 04:07 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I will let someone else make the long post. In short, a tank is going to be more survivable, a brute is going to kill faster. Once you IO a brute, if done right, it should be just as survivable as the tank.
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...for farming purposes. Since farming by definition involves facing minimal risk.
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Originally Posted by Ethical
Once you IO a brute, if done right, it should be just as survivable as the tank.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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Not really. |
Originally Posted by Ethical
I will let someone else make the long post. In short, a tank is going to be more survivable, a brute is going to kill faster. Once you IO a brute, if done right, it should be just as survivable as the tank.
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Tanks get better base resists, and they get more benefit from most defense powers, so it's easier to hit the softcap with resistance based sets.
To get a brute to the same level of survivability as a tank, you have to invest a LOT into it. But on the same note, a tank with that much invested is going to outsurvive the brute by quite a bit.
Example: A Shield Defense brute requires a significant investment to get softcapped. Conversely, a Shield Defense tank only needs a couple powers and ONE IO to hit the softcap. That gives you more room to invest into recharge and damage output on the tank, because your slots aren't tied up with defense bonuses.
A brute will be survivable enough, that much is true. But a tank will always get more survivability from the same amount of investment.
That said, a brute would probably be the better choice for a farmer. You can get a brute close to tanker survivability, but it's impossible to get a tank close to brute damage output. And damage output is what will make or break a farmer.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
If it is just for loot, head down to the market section. I am not against farming, but the market is way better to gain infl.
Thank's for the replies so far guys. I guess brute would be better then. No sense in overdoing survivability and less damage with a tanker if brute will survive just fine.
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Thank you for the answer but I rather gain it by killing mobs. Most of the time using the AH/market or whatever means I have to rip people off and raise prices and im against stuff like that. Plus it will help me level my gf's alts also.
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Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
If it is just for loot, head down to the market section. I am not against farming, but the market is way better to gain infl.
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I will remain a soldier until the war is won.
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I dont really want to get into an argument here, but people willing to pay an amount of infl. for something you provide does not equate ripping people off, unless you do it at gunpoint. |
Originally Posted by Thentix
Thank's for the replies so far guys. I guess brute would be better then. No sense in overdoing survivability and less damage with a tanker if brute will survive just fine.
Thank you for the answer but I rather gain it by killing mobs. Most of the time using the AH/market or whatever means I have to rip people off and raise prices and im against stuff like that. Plus it will help me level my gf's alts also. |
As far as raising prices goes, how does flooding the game with more influence stop inflation and raising of prices? Considering every toon playing is its own mint printing off infl. I would say farming does more to raise prices than playing the market.
Pling I get though.
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Very much this. If you are going to complain about high prices and ripping people off, farming is the last thing you should be doing.
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Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
I would say farming does more to raise prices than playing the market.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Oh I wasn't complaining about high prices or anything. Just ive played almost every mmo under the sun, and in the ones I actually used the AH's on, making money meant buying low and raising the price ridiculously high and selling it back on the AH. I don't like that sort of thing myself. Im not even gonna sell anything in game to be honest. Just buy what I can't farm myself really. I tend to stay away from AH's as much as I can.
And thank you. I don't wanna argue either. I hate it myself. :/ I was just asking for some help, sorry that I hit a bad chorde.
Any insight on FM/electric versus FM/dark?
I will remain a soldier until the war is won.
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If farming is your only concern, I'd go elec. You can tailor to mobs that won't kill you with either set, but the damage auras are the same and elec gets some bonus recharge and will never run out of endurance.
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Originally Posted by Thentix
Any insight on FM/electric versus FM/dark?
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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If you can softcap to Smashing and Lethal defense, and get your Energy resistance capped (really easy with Electric) you can farm Freakshow all day long and never be in any real danger. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
If farming is your only concern, I'd go elec. You can tailor to mobs that won't kill you with either set, but the damage auras are the same and elec gets some bonus recharge and will never run out of endurance.
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If you go that route, I would consider Electric/Electric as well, since Freakshow are weak to energy damage and you get Lightning Rod, which is one of the better AoEs available to a brute.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
As far as raising prices goes, how does flooding the game with more influence stop inflation and raising of prices? Considering every toon playing is its own mint printing off infl. I would say farming does more to raise prices than playing the market. . |
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Very much this. If you are going to complain about high prices and ripping people off, farming is the last thing you should be doing.
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Farming for drops is deflationary. If you are going to blame anyone for inflation, blame the people that play on large teams. They produce the most inf/kill and the least drops/person.
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Teaming is killing the game for casual warshade purplers. Heard it here first folks.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Solo Farming = Lowest amount of inf/kill + Constant Drops/kill
Farming for drops is deflationary. If you are going to blame anyone for inflation, blame the people that play on large teams. They produce the most inf/kill and the least drops/person. |
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The best Farmer I have ever played on SOs and cheap IO sets is a Tanker. The survivability and HPs makes that much of a difference (WP/Fire/Pyre).|
Originally Posted by Thentix
Well after reading countless threads since ive been back for a week after a year, I have a question that really hasnt been answered from what ive been able to search thru.
Is tanker damage really that bad compared to a brute? I'm trying to make a farming char to make money for me and my gf's chars. Either tanker or brute. I've got it down to either fire melee/electric armor/pyre or fire melee/dark armor/pyre. I guess my real question is will the tanker survivability more than make up for the less damage? In mid's the tankers resistances look so awesome compared to the brute. I don't mind a little less damage if my survivability is way better. I find myself not even playing and just making build after build in mids cause im not sure which archtype to pick -.-. I do more researching and build making then actually playing. This will be solo only. I don't like tanking in any game :/. Thank you so much for any answers you give. |
From my experiences with guildmates, once you fully IO out a Scrapper (Brute too I assume) they are just sick on blowing through missions.
The thing you have to look at is the combination of powersets. Its not just about ATs when it comes to farming. Alot more comes down to creating great AoE damage combined with good survivability and sufficient recharge to move to the next spawn and have all your powers ready to start a new cycle.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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That's an old one, its right up there with forumites pushing prejudices as fact.
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Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
Teaming is killing the game for casual warshade purplers. Heard it here first folks.
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So do you think that a tanker with electric armor/fire melee will do well enough that I can choose tanker instead of brute and not be so far behind in damage?
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Originally Posted by Biospark
The best Farmer I have ever played on SOs and cheap IO sets is a Tanker. The survivability and HPs makes that much of a difference (WP/Fire/Pyre).
From my experiences with guildmates, once you fully IO out a Scrapper (Brute too I assume) they are just sick on blowing through missions. The thing you have to look at is the combination of powersets. Its not just about ATs when it comes to farming. Alot more comes down to creating great AoE damage combined with good survivability and sufficient recharge to move to the next spawn and have all your powers ready to start a new cycle. |
I will remain a soldier until the war is won.
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I've got a Dark/Fire tank that I occasionally farm purple drops on by doing a -1/x8 freakshow map. At that point, I don't need much damage anyway.|
Originally Posted by Thentix
So do you think that a tanker with electric armor/fire melee will do well enough that I can choose tanker instead of brute and not be so far behind in damage?
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I don't farm with his original build. I have a second one that I specced for hasten, build up, and enough resistance to last through a mob. It's on the real damn cheap and doesn't have more than a few set IOs. I skipped tough/weave. It takes build up and three AoEs before everything's pretty close to dead.
If I were to start sinking money into that build, though, to get the kill speed even faster, I know I'd be better off sinking that same amount of cash to make a brute tough enough and still add more damage/recharge.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Ok I get it lol. I guess im overestimating survivability for farming. Brute it is then. Thank's a lot for helping a sorta newbie out guy's.
I will remain a soldier until the war is won.
Yeah, you really don't need to invest too much in survivability if you plan on AE farming. You can tailor make them and just use inspirations to fill in the holes.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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I try to not steer folks toward one AT or another. I think a Tanker will take a smaller investment in influence to get started, but a Scrapper or Brute can farm much faster, but will require a decent sized investment in survivability to do it.|
Originally Posted by Thentix
So do you think that a tanker with electric armor/fire melee will do well enough that I can choose tanker instead of brute and not be so far behind in damage?
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My Brute experience is very limited as well as my Electric Armor usage, so I cannot address your specific question, but I can mention some specifics of Fire Melee that are relevent.
Tankers get the following AoEs available by level 50 if you go Pyre Mastery:
Level 4: Combustion
Level 16: Breath of Fire
Level 28: Fire Sword Circle
Level 47: Fireball
Scrappers and Brutes do not get Combustion, so that is one less AoE to choose from
Brutes base damage only exceeds Tankers while under some amount of fury, which is not very hard to achieve.
Scrappers Fire Melee is the highest and they get FSC at level 18, Breath at level 8
Personally, I do not like Breath of Fire, so my Tanker used Buildup+FSC+Fireball+Combustion. Then mopped up whatever was left.
The cooldowns for these AoEs are all the same on each of the ATs.
All three ATs have to wait till level 47 for Fireball.
It really comes down to how fast do you want to go thru spawns. A scrapper will be the fastest, but be the lowest in survivability. The Tanker will be the slowest, but have the highest survivability. And the Brute should come in somewhere in between.
My question (which I dont have an answer for) is whether Lightning Field would be a good substitute for Combustion. The cast time on Combustion is horrible, but its easier to use than Breath of Fire, so thats why I chose it. IF Lightning Field would be equivalent or even just slightly less DPS, then the amount of time spent using other attacks during combustion's cast time would make up the difference.
Sorry for the long post. Did that make sense ?
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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This is simply untrue. The best ways to make money on the market involve lowering the prices of the stuff people buy, listing things at low prices, and watching people voluntarily pay twice what you're asking.|
Originally Posted by Thentix
Most of the time using the AH/market or whatever means I have to rip people off and raise prices and im against stuff like that.
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Marketeers dramatically improve the market experience for other players.
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Yes it made sense. |
Originally Posted by Biospark
I try to not steer folks toward one AT or another. I think a Tanker will take a smaller investment in influence to get started, but a Scrapper or Brute can farm much faster, but will require a decent sized investment in survivability to do it.
My Brute experience is very limited as well as my Electric Armor usage, so I cannot address your specific question, but I can mention some specifics of Fire Melee that are relevent. Tankers get the following AoEs available by level 50 if you go Pyre Mastery: Level 4: Combustion Level 16: Breath of Fire Level 28: Fire Sword Circle Level 47: Fireball Scrappers and Brutes do not get Combustion, so that is one less AoE to choose from Brutes base damage only exceeds Tankers while under some amount of fury, which is not very hard to achieve. Scrappers Fire Melee is the highest and they get FSC at level 18, Breath at level 8 Personally, I do not like Breath of Fire, so my Tanker used Buildup+FSC+Fireball+Combustion. Then mopped up whatever was left. The cooldowns for these AoEs are all the same on each of the ATs. All three ATs have to wait till level 47 for Fireball. It really comes down to how fast do you want to go thru spawns. A scrapper will be the fastest, but be the lowest in survivability. The Tanker will be the slowest, but have the highest survivability. And the Brute should come in somewhere in between. My question (which I dont have an answer for) is whether Lightning Field would be a good substitute for Combustion. The cast time on Combustion is horrible, but its easier to use than Breath of Fire, so thats why I chose it. IF Lightning Field would be equivalent or even just slightly less DPS, then the amount of time spent using other attacks during combustion's cast time would make up the difference. Sorry for the long post. Did that make sense ? |
I will remain a soldier until the war is won.
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Actually, the thing that would most improve the market experience would be for all players to be knowledgeable about the true value of things relative to supply and demand, for bidders to exercise patience (refuse to play ball with sellers who jack prices up), and for sellers to list at correct price points (listing too low allows others to profit from your hard work and listing too high clogs up the market and causes inflation).|
Originally Posted by seebs
This is simply untrue. The best ways to make money on the market involve lowering the prices of the stuff people buy, listing things at low prices, and watching people voluntarily pay twice what you're asking.
Marketeers dramatically improve the market experience for other players. |
That is, if everyone thought like a marketeer but behaved like an intelligent consumer the market would operate much more smoothly, with fewer ups and downs and crazy shortages.
Right now lots of people are impatient and lustful for shinies and will pay anything for them. That isn't marketeers' fault, but they certainly do things to feed that frenzy. For example, buying up recipes with lowball bids and crafting them them into IOs that the impatient rich folks buy for 10 or 20 times their value.
There are definitely a few "bad" marketeers out there who intentionally play games and force price spikes and shortages, but they can't do that for long and they can't do it unless bad consumers go along with them.
Finally, the thing that would help the market the most would be for people to stop wasting time writing whiny posts about prices being too high and instead go out and do things that generate more supply, which is the surest way to reduce prices (like rolling random recipes from AE tickets, tip missions and TFs, running level 50 content for purples and PvPing for recipes). The supply has to come from someplace. Be a part of the solution by becoming a provider instead of being part of the problem by only consuming.
If people would rather pay a lot more for the crafted I/O than for the components, what makes you think that's over the "real" value of the crafted I/O?
I don't complain that restaurants are charging me several times the price of their ingredients; I buy from them because I don't feel like cooking.
OP, if all you want is a farm toon to get purps and influence, make a SS/Fire brute, and when you get to 45 or so look up Harvey Maylor in Peregrine Isle. His story arc has a defeat all mish which is nothing but Praetorian demons, the infamous "Demon Farm". All fire dmg, no mezz, no KB etc.
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Harvey_Maylor
Once you have that mish, just farm it all you like. I do it on +4x8 for kicks, but +2x8 is fine, purple drops to sell or use, and I get around 10 million per run solo doing it, a run lasting what? 15 minutes maybe (I don't hurry).
I also farmed Infernal's mish for a bit until I got Harvey's demon farm.
It isn't interesting, or much fun, except when you see the purple drops, that's always cool.
Gets the job done though.
Well after reading countless threads since ive been back for a week after a year, I have a question that really hasnt been answered from what ive been able to search thru.
Is tanker damage really that bad compared to a brute? I'm trying to make a farming char to make money for me and my gf's chars. Either tanker or brute. I've got it down to either fire melee/electric armor/pyre or fire melee/dark armor/pyre.
I guess my real question is will the tanker survivability more than make up for the less damage? In mid's the tankers resistances look so awesome compared to the brute. I don't mind a little less damage if my survivability is way better. I find myself not even playing and just making build after build in mids cause im not sure which archtype to pick -.-. I do more researching and build making then actually playing. This will be solo only. I don't like tanking in any game :/.
Thank you so much for any answers you give.
I will remain a soldier until the war is won.