It's all about me, me, me!

With the dialogue box still open that says, "True loyalists might want to call Marchand", I open my contacts list, click on Marchand. Usually there are three options, that basically mean, "new contact, report this, leave". The center one is usually the one that has some kind of text related to the current story arc. Click on that. Marchand comes back, "whaddya want?" Then there is again "report this, leave" and I choose, "report this". He comes back with some kind of response along the lines of, "do as you're supposed to do and we'll handle the details to make it come out the way we want." Although, on rare occasions it is "arrest this guy, arrest him now!" and if you choose to arrest the person in question they go into combat mode and become targetable.

I found the system relatively flawless and easy to use once I learned how to put myself undercover to begin with. The real chore is getting yourself undercover. The easiest way I found to so was to do the Loyalist Responsibility storyline until you get to Cleopatra and then choose to support Cleopatra and defeat the Inspector. That puts you into the Resistance and gives you both Marchand and Scott as contacts. From that point on, when the option arises you can report to either or neither as you see fit.

Er,...that's kinda what I like about it. There are no clear villains or heroes, only shades of gray. Praetor Tilman scares me half to death (as she is designed to do) but her Seers keep the city relatively free of crime, at least in the area around Magisterium Park. The PPD are a bunch of thugs, but they generally focus that thuggery on violent criminals or those suspected of supporting violent criminals. Calvin Scott is the everyman thrust into leading a rebellion against an oppressive tyrant, but then he ends up being perfectly content with destroying the city's water supply to make his point. Shades of gray, endless shades of gray.

With missions in Paragon City the main theme is always, "our attitudes are holy and righteous and without blame and these enemies are mindless, faceless lowlifes who don't deserve to share our city". In Praetoria that is the line taken by the run of the mill PPD, but not by anybody else. And if you run both Resistance and Loyalist story arcs, then there is nothing at all "mindless" or "faceless" about the Resistance. Granted, the Destroyers and whatnot are still anonymous nobodies, but it would take way too much programming to change that for every single NPC enemy group in the virtual world.

In the Rogue Isles the main theme is generally, "Hey, it ain't pretty, but here's a way to make some fast cash!" Except for those newspaper missions that have you beat up some NPC tough guy just because he's a tough guy. Unless I have no choice, I avoid those kind of missions because it's a theme I find completely repulsive. Even the mission that has you destroying school supplies and stealing medicines is more rational than, "Thug So-and-So thinks he's hot, maybe you should show him otherwise."

Praetorian missions that I've run are less clear cut. At least from my perspective. When it came time to either arrest Cleopatra or take out Inspector Washington I didn't hesitate for a second. Washington's loyalty to the status quo was way too cut and dried. He reminded me of all those contacts in Paragon City that start with, "I'm just a run of the mill so-and-so and there is a great evil threatening our beautiful city that only you can defend against," right before they send you running across three zones to go into a warehouse door that magically leads to the sewers. On the other hand, as you point out, he is a good cop who does his job with high ethical and moral standards. Is he more deserving of respect than Cleopatra? That is the choice every player gets to make at the end of the mission. It is as it should be, an individual choice with a genuine consequence for both the player and the two NPCs.

I only encountered one mission in Praetoria where the door and the map were not synchronized. A warehouse door led to sewers that eventually opened into a small plaza. I sent in a bug report on it. There really is no excuse for having such mismatches occur. It's nothing more than lazy programming.

But the point is, I genuinely enjoy the moral ambiguity of Praetoria and the in-your-face self-centeredness of CoV. I first played CoH back in Issue 3 and one of the things that never, ever appealed to me was the self-righteous narcissism of the storylines. It only took a few weeks before I started shopping around for another game, then they announced CoV and I liked it so much I've been here ever since. I read every story box, long or short. For me, the story is everything. I never play FPS games because their stories are always irrelevant to the gameplay. Without a good story, I have no reason to play.

Praetoria has some of the best storytelling the team has ever created. That is why I would very much like to see it expanded into a full asset comparable to CoV. Personally, I see absolutely no reason why it cannot be given the same kind of story depth and same diversity of material. It would take time, naturally, but in the end the franchise would have three parallel storylines, each with a unique fictional world, unique theme, and unique cast of characters. How could that ever be a bad thing?

You don't have the right kind of villain, then. From my perspective, the petty servitude our characters are forced into and all the kowtowing to Arachnos are horribly distasteful, especially when I have characters who are supposed to have dignity, style and vision. Almost all "leader" villains that I have would take the "Kill that tough guy just because" mission over everything else, for the simple reason that that's the easy way to assert your power to the people. This shows them that they can't and shouldn't be strong unless they're willing to serve you. Anyone who starts getting ideas dies, and publicly as a lesson to the others.

Obviously, it ain't pretty, but I'm not writing for nice guys here. I'm writing for people who have a clear vision of how thing should be and aren't interested in allowing anyone or anything to get in their way. Not only that, but they're not at all turned off from proactive violence and murder if it makes a point, especially if it's just some tough guy idiot who made the mistake of running his mouth.

I couldn't disagree more. Of all the stories ever told on all three sides, I will still take Paragon City's stories over all others, by and large. In City of Villains and Going Rogue, you're always displayed as a servant to someone else, and not just because you're doing as they say. You have pledged your allegiance to them, are indebted to them or really want to get tight with them. This I do not like, and it's why I'm so turned off by the whole "Resistance vs. Loyalists" struggle. What if I don't care about EITHER side? What if I only care about myself? Or what if I want to help protect Praetorian, but feel BOTH factions are idiots? I don't have that freedom of choice that I do in Paragon City.

City of Heroes doesn't have very in-depth stories, by and large, but what it does well is making me feel like "my own man." I swear no allegiances, I serve no factions, I have no moral code foisted on me, other than "do good," which is as broad as it gets. I'm not given motives from on high, that's the thing. With City of Villains, it's either "you're in it for the money" or "you're in it to be an Arachnos lackey" and in Going Rogue it's in the actual moral choices. But in City of Heroes? "You're in it for the... lulz? Sorry, I got nothin'." Why am I doing good? I dunno. Maybe I just feel like it, maybe I have honour, maybe I'm compelled to, maybe I want to protect people from the pain I felt, or maybe I'm ten thousand years old, bored and trying to see if being virtuous might not break the monotony. My motivations are not given to me by the narrative, and THAT I enjoy.

---

Back to the Power Arc in particular and Going Rogue in general, I disagree that adding more choices would ruin the atmosphere of Praetoria, unless the atmosphere is "You're either Nexus or against us!" which never really sat well with me. My ego is always just big enough to want to flip everyone the birdie and be against them all. If Metronome can pull it off, if Simon Omega can pull it off, if James Noble can pull it off... Why can't I? Am I, once again, second banana to the awesomeness that are the NPCs? Yes, making hard choices in a hopeless situation is good storytelling... For a survival horror, a war documentary or a slasher thriller. In a universe where we're supposed to be awesome, all it does is put me in situations where I keep thinking "I should be better than this. I should have the choice to be more adventurous. I should be allowed to NOT play it safe every time." And I never am. Well, almost never...

Enter the Power arc, the only piece of content in Praetoria that's NOT written like this. Yes, I'm still a loyalist, though in name only. I do not serve the loyalists, the serve me. They may not know it, but if they won't serve me by choice, I can always manipulate them, force them or kill them. Look at what happened to Reese, and let that be a lesson to all of you! Ahem... The Power arc IS the third choice. It's a choice which puts me in service to no-one at all. In fact, multiple moral choices say that in almost these exact words. "No-one controls you. Not the Resistance, not Sinclair, NOBODY!" This is what I want!

Only it's not quite what I get. When I made the thread, I was about mid-way through the story arc, and up to that point everything was good. Sinclair's arc was a bit... Underwhelming, as he TOLD me I achieved fame, but just off-hand. Then I moved to Neutropolis, and things began to go sideways. Somewhere along the line, I apparently gave up on wanting power, fame and independence and instead began wanting to be an Recluse's lackey... Wait, no, that doesn't sound right... I began wanting to be... Emperor Cole's lackey, that's right. You can see why I'd make that mistake, what with the storyline becoming a carbon copy of CoV's basic premise. And I don't quite get why. I was so cool and independent in Nova and Imperial, but in Neutropolis, the only thing I could think of is which high-level Praetorian I wanted to serve. Why?

In fact, you know what pissed me off? The culmination of my ambition, the climax of my rise to power... Was to address Emperor Cole as "My Lord?" The hell? Why?

The power arc, though, is a good example of why the duality of warring factions is so limiting. The Power arc has almost nothing to do with the Resistance, so when moral choices come up, my reaction "Huh?" Spoilers ahead, but my final moral choice was to either destroy the Olympian and burn down Neuron's lab for... No reason that I could determine and join the resistance. Wait, what? When did the resistance come into this? The entire arc, I saw them, like, once, and that was after duping them into a pointless attack and kicking their *****. What POSSIBLE reason would I have to want to join them? The entire arc, I've had almost no exposure to the resistance at all, and I would want to join them? Why? What sense does that make?

I know why it was done. The developers painted themselves into a corner by writing the Resistance and the Loyalists into the very core of the game, so every moral choice has to be between them. It doesn't matter if I'm picking between cake and pie, cake has to be illegal and eating it would make me part of the Resistance while pie is the status quo and would make me part of the Loyalists. This should not have happened. Morality should not have been reduced to just two factions. If it HAD to be reduced to factions, there should have been at least three, if not four. Because with just two, you either have to make EVERYTHING involve both factions, which brings us back to the Longbow problem, or your moral choices don't make sense, which brings us back to the Olympian problem.

I hope they introduce a third faction at SOME point in the future. It would make things at least feel less forced.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

More than likely because he's a level 50 incarnate and your only level 20

If you already know, then my apologies. If not, then ... You're right; it IS what Decoys and Phantasm were supposed to be. The tech wasn't there when the game launched, but the Illusion powerset was originally supposed to produce copies of the user.

So? Anti-Matter is showed up as a level 41 elite boss in my level 18 mission and I didn't address him as "my lord." In fact, I took a swing at him and he one-shotted me. But at least the game didn't "protect" me from encountering him by making such an encounter impossible.

The general point was that I don't like how my agenda went from "It's all about me, me, me!" to "I must be a good boy for the higher ups." This is Arachnos all over again.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

To which he responded "Dude. Quit that. We're cool." Perhaps your Power Loyalist was simply making the effort to worm their way into Cole's good graces through a touch of sugar.

Well, I originally thought so, but here's the thing - every mission before where I'd worked with an NPC despite plotting to sell them out, the briefings have given me orange text to tell me that I have an agenda behind the words. For instance, I accept Neuron's mission to [redacted] and the last paragraph of that one is "You don't really want to do that. Instead, go speak with Anti-Matter and see how you can turn this around."

The conversation with Cole had none of that. Assuming I'd accepted that my "reservations" will be written out for me in brown text, not having them told me I HAD no reservations to speak of. Granted, I flipped him the birdie and went to the Rogue Isles (temporarily) at the end, but that's unique to the Power arc. All Loyalists get to make that choice.

The thing is, I don't appreciate being buddies with Tyrant. People like Riptide and Aria, these I can easily accept being friends with, because for the most part, I'm clearly and immediately better than them. My friendship with them is not a threat - it is one-sided in my direction. Cole is better than me. He has an empire and I don't. I shouldn't be trying to kiss his ***, I should be trying to be better than him. I managed to talk down Praetor Duncan by basically telling her off, why not Cole? You know, like I got to do when I went to Primal Earth with my other Loyalist.

So why not go to Paragon City and talk Cole down, instead? Because Paragon City is the idealist path. My other Loyalist talked Cole down basically by being a better patriot than Cole was. So why can't I talk him down by being more ambitious?

I don't mind the choices themselves, but it's what the choices are BETWEEN that makes me raise an eyebrow.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

This is a circular argument. "It's written like that because it's written like that." Yes, I'm aware of how the situation is pegged. I'm saying it doesn't have to be. I'm saying the game ALLOWED me to talk down Praetor Duncan, yet does not allow me to hold my own in conversation with Cole... When it actually does in another arc? I'm not making things up here. Loyalists who go to Primal Earth CAN very much talk down Emperor Cole, and his response is basically "I disagree with your idealism, but you go work on that. Just make sure you know better when the Walkers walk in." Why can't that take place on the Power arc in Praetoria?

I'm not asking for alignment switches here. Just a conversation option. Like how I can choose to hi-five D-Mac or choose not to hi-five him. Why can't I get a choice between "I am at your service, my lord." and "You need to keep better control of your henchmen, Markus." Tyrant doesn't exactly come off as a high-strung guy who's likely to explode on you. In fact, I'd half expect him to say something along the lines of "You're pretty bold with me. I can respect that, as long as you know your place at the end of the day."

You can write the dialogue such that it gives me a chance to be stubborn and arrogant and still lead it to the same place at the end. That's what conversation trees are for.

And again - the exact same thing happened with Anti-Matter, and I didn't get a Game Over screen. The difference between a +23 EB and a + 37 AV is academic. If Cole was going to kill me, Anti-Matter would have killed me long before, if for no reason other than because his words to me were "You will die for trespassing!" Shocker of shockers, when he took me down, I didn't die. In fact, I popped an awaken and ran my *** out of his lab because he'd lost aggro. No, I can't beat Anti-Matter at level 18. Obviously. But that doesn't mean I can't FIGHT him. Because I can, and the game as it is right now features that as one of its actual missions.

I wouldn't be opposed to Cole taking one of my comments badly, turning hostile and one-shotting me, exactly like Anti-Matter did. Maybe he thinks it'll teach me a lesson, not knowing I'm stubborn to the point of stupidity. I wake up in the hospital fuming, he goes back to his office satisfied in the beating he laid down and he effectively wins, but I still had the choice to defy him. If it even comes to that, considering Emperor Marcus Cole does not come off as the sort of guy who would beat others up over what they say. He may be a ruthless dictator, but he's not a petty bully, largely because he has nothing to compensate for.

---

What I'm talking about is IN THE GAME ALREADY, it's just not always in the right place.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Thanks Hound, we will try that.

Well, of course, I can always do that After all, these things didn't make me log out and delete the character. But I can solve a lot of problems that way that I'd ideally really want to see solved for real. I can deal with the problems, yes, but that doesn't make them any less problematic or any less worthy of addressing, or at the very least bringing up.

I just feel the game can give us a LOT more choice without breaking framework than it already does, and once again, it's a question of writing, rather than technology.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Hell yeah! That's pretty much exactly what I was looking for on that one. Cole shows an incredibly cool head considering all the problems he's apparently been having with Barry, so I'm pretty sure I can add some spirit to this without so much as budging the man's stoicism. What I had swirling around my head was more along the lines of:

-Berry is hard to control. It is one of his many downsides. Are you suggesting I should add disobedience to that?

-I'm suggesting you reconsider your options. Berry continues to fail and embarrass you, whereas I have continually made you look good. You know I'm better than him.

-Let's not jump to conclusions, $name. Berry has his faults and failures, yes, and for those he will be... Punished. But his worth to me is still great. You do, however, have a point, in that you have proven yourself more than enough times. I don't want to do anything too drastic about it at quite yet, but suffice it to say this: I am impressed.

Really, that's splitting hairs, as what you said is very close to what I had in mind. I was just illustrating the point. Yes, what I described still ends up serving Cole (there isn't much of an option here), but it approaches it with dignity and ambition, rather than with loyalty and obedience. I want to prove I'm better than Barry, rather than prove that I'm a good boy as the game would have me. You can be a servant and STILL have dignity and class, which is all I'm asking for.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.