Confuse still steals Exp?


AnElfCalledMack

 

Posted

Does confuse still steal exp? I heard that it no longer does. Also how does confuse work in pvp and what can you do to counter it? Also what is a good counter for countering a foe that uses - recharge ataxia against you in pvp? Does domination provide resistance to - recharge?


 

Posted

Confuse can lower xp. You gain xp based on the % of damage dealt to an enemy. If an enemy beats an enemy by itself, you will gain 0% xp, because you did 0% of the damage.


The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU

 

Posted

Confuse can lower xp if the enemy deals the majority of the damage. However, bear in mind that as long as you do half the damage you still receive 80% of the xp. As a result confuse generally will increase your xp over time as opposed to reducing it.

In pvp, there is no protection from mez effects, but their durations are far shorter than in PVE and will be further reduced by resistance. Confuse will cause you to target both allies and enemies. If you can isolate your target away from your allies then confuse will have little effect.

Finally, no Domination does not provide protection from -recharge. There is an IO, part of the Winter's Gift set, that can provide 20% resistance to -recharge.


 

Posted

Fighting confused foes is like shooting fish in a barrel. I submit that xp/min goes UP since you spend less time on other mitigation measures.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psylenz View Post
Fighting confused foes is like shooting fish in a barrel. I submit that xp/min goes UP since you spend less time on other mitigation measures.
Exactly. The other thing is that Confused minions are extremely bad at hurting each other. They run around, switch targets constantly and generally don't do enough damage to make any real difference -- unless you let them go at it for a while. If you Confuse bosses and let them attack their minions, bosses will take out minions quite handily.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodion View Post
Exactly. The other thing is that Confused minions are extremely bad at hurting each other. They run around, switch targets constantly and generally don't do enough damage to make any real difference -- unless you let them go at it for a while. If you Confuse bosses and let them attack their minions, bosses will take out minions quite handily.
Yes. I was doing a mission with my level 12 Plant/Fire Loyalist. Someone was murdering Powers Division big boys, and I had my own Powers Division team to go find the culprit. I was in a mission with a metric ton of Syndicate. My Powers Team were wimps, and left me facing all these angry Syndicate. I confused Marisa Delany. Ran behind a corner and waited until my confuse died, and did this, always confusing Marisa, a couple of times until that huge mob was whittled down to a reasonable size then pounced.

Yes, I lost a lot of XP....but I saved myself many, many, trips to the hospital, and also saved myself a ton of debt. In this case, XP loss was a price I happily paid.

And, Yes Rodion, I too noticed that confused mobs really do not want to kill their teamates, so I treat my AOE confuse as a semi hold. ..unless I have confused one bad guy and their are no other bad guys around, then it is a super hold

Lisa.


So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try

***Dennis DeYoung

 

Posted

Also confuse is excelent on the STF.

Dr Aeon and his pesky super duper EB spawning power...

Well, pets spawned when confused spawn with a strong disliking for their owners face...


Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl View Post
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Confuse does not steal any XP. It grants bonus XP.

If you do 50% of the damage to an enemy, you get 80% of the experience for that enemy. You are getting experience for damage you did not do.
Great way of putting it Dechs.

Plus, fights are faster with Confuse so you're killing faster and Confuse gets better the more enemies there are in the group with no significant increase in killing speed once you get a couple AoE attacks like Creepers, Sleet, Fireball, Rain of Fire, Fissure, etc.

I'll take a slight XP loss any day to increase my killing speed by around 20% *AND* fight against groups 2-4 steps higher than what I can take without it.


Beowulf -
Too many Alts, not enough 50's. Story of my life...

 

Posted

NO NO NO! Confuse never, ever "steals XP."

A foe defeated by a confused foe does not award XP to you because you never earned it -- you didn't do any of the damage. But nothing takes away any XP you earned. As far as you are concerned, that foe never existed. At worst you could say that confusion can reduce the amount of XP available to be earned from a particular pool of foes. Since there are fewer foes to kill, you complete missions faster and get those mission bonuses faster. At worst, there is a reduction in XP that is available to earn . . . but you can always do another mission. Unless you are doing a limited number of Kill-all missions, it really doesn't matter.


AND, as long as you (and/or your team and/or your pets) do SOME of the damage to the target of the confused foe, then you get BONUS XP -- you get XP that you did not earn by getting some of the XP earned by the confused foe. So you are not only having to do less damage to defeat a foe, but you are getting bonus XP for defeating that foe.

This is one of the worst misconceptions in the game. I run into it all the time. I even wrote a long section about it in my Illusion/Radiation guide.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

In short, confuse powers move you to the mission bonus quicker than if you didn't have confuse.

This is my new avocation. First, I was the self-proclaimed priest of the death-less howling twilight usage. Now I will add the "Confusion conquers all" to my agenda.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Local_Man View Post
...At worst, there is a reduction in XP that is available to earn . . . but you can always do another mission. Unless you are doing a limited number of Kill-all missions, it really doesn't matter.
Unless you are in Praetoria. There are such a limited number of missions available unless you are willing to ignore the power/responsibility and warden/crusader divisions and do both sets that you can easily end up street sweeping entire levels between contacts without confuse removing a portion of the available in-mission XP before you earned it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edana View Post
Unless you are in Praetoria. There are such a limited number of missions available unless you are willing to ignore the power/responsibility and warden/crusader divisions and do both sets that you can easily end up street sweeping entire levels between contacts without confuse removing a portion of the available in-mission XP before you earned it.
Um, you do know you can toggle xp on and off, correct? If you make any damage on said confused mobs, you'll be rewarded far more than the ratio you 'deserve,' so the toggle is a safer bet.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edana View Post
Unless you are in Praetoria. There are such a limited number of missions available unless you are willing to ignore the power/responsibility and warden/crusader divisions and do both sets that you can easily end up street sweeping entire levels between contacts without confuse removing a portion of the available in-mission XP before you earned it.
Actually, I always find that I outlevel the second moral choice arc in Imperial, and have to turn XP off for a few missions if my plan involves a side-switch before Neutropolis. Losing a little potential to gain XP would be perfect for that.

May contain traces of spoilers. You have been warned.

The barrier between Resistance and Loyalist is real, but not absolute. Characters can and will cross it. One of my characters couldn't support the detonation of a neutron bomb, and abandoned the Crusaders because they were mad and dangerous. Another felt that Chief Investigator Washington was acting outside his authority (and, you know, risked getting Praetor White really mad) when he ordered Cleopatra's execution without trial. She defended the rights of an Imperial citizen, and before she knew it, she had to take refuge with the Resistance. Yet another simply had an anger management problem. When Reece came at her with lethal force, she responded in kind, then had to run for the tunnels. Yes, that last one was a Brute. A Praetorian's story is around five arcs. That means "purity" isn't always going to work. Sticking to your ideals in a world like Praetoria isn't easy, and the devs are under no obligation to make a plan like "pure Warden" easy either.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seldom View Post
Um, you do know you can toggle xp on and off, correct? If you make any damage on said confused mobs, you'll be rewarded far more than the ratio you 'deserve,' so the toggle is a safer bet.
You seem to be going from the opposite angle. Confuse is good for getting XP at a faster rate at the expense of reducing the overall quantity; in Paragon or the Rogue Isles there are always more missions to do so the quantity is unlimited, losing 20% of infinity isn't a problem. In Praetoria the repeatable missions are missing, you have a story to make as you go through the different arcs and once you run out of missions on a contact if you aren't at the level for the next set in that path you have to either street sweep in a city where the police start shooting at you for helping them out, or swap branch. If you've played through the entire 1-18 range as "lawful good" Responsibility and take a look at the Power contact to get the last couple of levels the difference in attitude can be rather jarring.


 

Posted

This is how I have always viewed confuse. On teams when the foes are really hard then its an insurance policy that you wont die. Chances are if you are in this situation you need to turn down the difficulty anyways. Second the damage done is xp leeching but I find on teams that have alot of aoe having the confuse foes fight is just bad. For the most part they would not have died any faster because it would have been overkill damage. So in the case with aoe heavy teams I wouldnt use it. What it boils down to is this, is the xp lost from confuse going to be more or less than the total debt the team would have gotten from that encounter? Since debt is like almost non-existent these days it takes away from the utility that confuse brought to the table. For solo this is a different matter. I found it extremely valueable on redside due to mobs having insane control resistances and domination not always being up. So thats pretty much the one thing to rely on. Now that we have a choice for doms being on blueside I find myself not needing it as much.


Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator

Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
This is how I have always viewed confuse. On teams when the foes are really hard then its an insurance policy that you wont die. Chances are if you are in this situation you need to turn down the difficulty anyways. Second the damage done is xp leeching but I find on teams that have alot of aoe having the confuse foes fight is just bad. For the most part they would not have died any faster because it would have been overkill damage. So in the case with aoe heavy teams I wouldnt use it. What it boils down to is this, is the xp lost from confuse going to be more or less than the total debt the team would have gotten from that encounter? Since debt is like almost non-existent these days it takes away from the utility that confuse brought to the table. For solo this is a different matter. I found it extremely valueable on redside due to mobs having insane control resistances and domination not always being up. So thats pretty much the one thing to rely on. Now that we have a choice for doms being on blueside I find myself not needing it as much.
I don't agree with this . . . as far as I could understand it. If you have a fast-moving AoE focused team, then most of the time you don't need confuse, but if you use it, confused foes (a) won't have time to do all that much damage, (b) you will be pretty sure to do damage to every foe, even foes targetted by confused foes, so you will be getting bonus XP you didn't earn while you kill foes faster, and (c) those confused foes will not be doing damage to you or your teammates.

And even better . . . a smart use of confuse powers can take foes who use mez, debuff and buff powers out of the fight before it begins. So those things that can slow you down (or even stop you) can be gotten rid of with Confuse.

For example: Don't you think you will kill stuff faster if those Earth Thorn Casters are using their Quicksand on the foes instead of on you? and getting the Ruin Mages to throw Earthquake on the foes instead of you and your team?


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Local_Man View Post
For example: Don't you think you will kill stuff faster if those Earth Thorn Casters are using their Quicksand on the foes instead of on you? and getting the Ruin Mages to throw Earthquake on the foes instead of you and your team?
Or that damned dispersion bubble!


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Local_Man View Post
For example: Don't you think you will kill stuff faster if those Earth Thorn Casters are using their Quicksand on the foes instead of on you? and getting the Ruin Mages to throw Earthquake on the foes instead of you and your team?
Confusing Sky Raider Engineers is always good for some extra Defense... at least until the Engineer goes down, at which point the FFG they dropped appears to go autistic and doesn't buff anyone but itself.


"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Local_Man View Post
For example: Don't you think you will kill stuff faster if those Earth Thorn Casters are using their Quicksand on the foes instead of on you? and getting the Ruin Mages to throw Earthquake on the foes instead of you and your team?
For me, it's Malta Sappers. I love having those guys on my side!


Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.

 

Posted

/head desk


@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
This is how I have always viewed confuse. On teams when the foes are really hard then its an insurance policy that you wont die. Chances are if you are in this situation you need to turn down the difficulty anyways.

The point of having mezzes is precisely because it lets you fight things that are more difficult. If you lower the difficulty you will earn much less XP than you would have if a confused group had shot each other once or twice or whatever.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalMaden View Post
/head desk
I agree . . . but part of the problem is that the in-game description doesn't explain the benefits of the power. People see the "no Experience" and don't have a clue about how awesome confuse powers are.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sardan View Post
For me, it's Malta Sappers. I love having those guys on my side!
I'm partial to Master Illusionists summoning an army of pets loyal to me!


Beowulf -
Too many Alts, not enough 50's. Story of my life...

 

Posted

My dominator is built for team support, fast recharge and end drain. Frequently, I fire off synaptic overload on a nearby group - just because I like griefing our team //// wait not that! I do it because I know after they start bashing each other they won't accidentally get aggroed to fighting us. It's funny, too, because some blasters or scrappers will break off the current fight and dash over to that confused group like a house-a-fire because I think they don't want to miss out on all the xp.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.