Ninja Survivability

Hi folks!

Normally I play ranged masterminds (mercenaries, thugs, and robots), but it's too frustrating for me to play those types right now as they love to run into melee and die, despite whatever commands and/or macros I use.

So I decided until they get fixed, I might try a ninja mastermind. The question on my mind, though, is this: Can ninjas, despite their lack of resistances, survive on higher difficulty and spawn size settings? I know they mainly use single target attacks, so I don't mind a longer battle so long as they can survive it.

I think you'll ask what secondary I plan to use. I was thinking of using Dark Miasma, Pain Domination, or Thermal Radiation. Paired with those secondaries, and a player who knows how to control ninjas and keep them from running off, would they be able to survive large fights?

I imagine Dark Miasma's ToHit debuffs would complement their inherent defenses, and Thermal Radiation would give them damage resistance as well as healing and damage powers. Pain I'm not sure of, but I enjoy playing healers.

Anyway, yeah. The question is: Can ninja pets, paired with the secondaries I listed, survive large battles?

Thanks!

EDIT- I solo most of the time, if that makes any difference.

I always love seeing more ninja users! I love mine to death.

Ninjas have a built-in defense actually, and it's awful, like 7.5 or something (not sure about the actual number), but this means that you can help it out with /FF, maneuvers, etc. /DM, as you were thinking of, would also help since the -tohit would stack with whatever defense you build on with their defense. I hear good things about nin/DM. Their awesome ST damage rocks with tar patch's -res, from what I hear.

Ninjas can definitely endure large battles, I have /TA as my secondary, which is considered "not-so-good", and they still kick a** left and right, although I usually have to resummon a genin or two after all is said and done, but you'll have a heal to help with that, just have to run in near them to have it be effective.

Hope it helps

I have a Nin/FF, and I honestly feel as though Ninjas go best with either FF or Thermal, although I've never tried them with Storm or Dark, which sound like they may be decent for Ninjas as well.


As stated, their problem is that they have VERY low defenses, and no resists. This means that when they are hit--which is often--they are hit HARD. Reactive healing is almost null at that point, because they will die so fast. I paired Ninja with FF to increase thier survivability, and FF has done that job very well. The problem is, FF lacks other toys, such as -res/-def/-reg, and such which can be VERY helpful in this game.


I also propose Thermal, since I think the Thermal Shields stacked with the Ninjas minor defenses will give them some decently rounded out survivability. It means that they will abvoid "some" attacks, but be able to better absorbe the ones that do land. This will also give you some time to heal them before they are defeated. Thermal also has some nifty toys to play with, such as -def/-res/-regen, etc.


Those are "my" only two suggestions for Nin and a secondary though.

Pain, well pain doesn't help with one shot Genins. It will happen. Tea cups can take a better beating.

Thermal will help with survivability. Shields, with the heals, plus some good debuffs.

Dark is just nice. I didn't like the mix with Ninjas. To me Ninjas are all about speed, and Dark has set up times. YMMV.

I run Ninja/Storm. I have no problems at +0 level, +3 team, + bosses. And I only run in body guard mode. I tend to get hit more than my ninjas. Then they flip out and kill stuff.

Steamy Mist frankenslotted with Kismet/Karma. Maneuevers with Serendipity (not 6 slotted yet). Hurricane with Dampened Spirits. Tornado with Call to Arms (not 6 slotted yet), slotted the Defense Bonus Aura for Pets first.

My Ninja's don't get hit a lot. O2 boost as a heal isn't as bad as a lot of people say. Mine is slotted with Doctored Wounds.

Genin are slotted with Edict of the Master. Jounin are slotted with Brilliant Leadership. Oni is slotted with part of Sovergn Right.

Thanks for the info!

I've come up with various builds, but have always stopped short of the character creation screen, afraid that, using ninjas, I won't be able to endure the large battles that I love both solo and on teams.

But, what you folks have said gives me hope, so I'll go ahead and create one tomorrow and see how it goes. I'm torn between Dark Miasma and Thermal now, though. Heh.

Again, thanks for the replies.

Ninjas are great damage dealers ... so long as they're not the focus of Aggro. Tankerminding using the Presence Pool Taunts can be really helpful here, since it keeps the aggro off your (way too) squishy pets.

"Best" combo for survivability would have to be Force Field combined with Maneuvers and the +Pet Defense unique IO. Turns the whole mess of them into */SR scrappers, which makes them relatively maintenance free (for healing purposes). Yeah, you won't have a whole lot in the way of debuffs ... but you can always slot an Achillies' Heel proc into your Jounin to inflict resist debuffs.

Ninja/Dark is "decent" ... but also requires you personally to really get INTO combat, right in the the thick of things, alongside your pets. We're talking "nearly melee" range close to combat here, which means you eat any and all AoE damage output from hostiles along with your pets, simply because you have to get in so close to fully leverage Dark. If that's your thing, then more power to ya.

I too have a Ninja/TA/Soul MM at 44 now, and it is HARD to keep the ADHD "kids" alive in free-for-all situations. I don't even bother trying to heal them (no Medicine Pool for me!). I believe that Ninjas should be like Kleenex ... Fresh, Clean, Disposable.
(I do a lot of resummoning...)

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

How does Soul fair out for you, Redlynne? I was tossing that one around for a pool to take as well. I'm pretty sure I'll go with Field Mastery though for the energy attacks to light up OSA if Oni doesn't, and the toggle and mini-godmode as well.

Haven't been able to do all that much with it *yet* ... mainly because I haven't got it slotted out yet. Going with the two cone attacks (debuff and immobilize) and the hold (haven't got that yet), and I'll be slotting for tohit debuff (to help my pets) and damage (since the immobilize is long enough without enhancement). So far it isn't game changing, but the immobilize is proving its worth in keeping the ADHD children "pinned" in place on their targets.

I went Tech Origin (of all things) so I've got the Taser Dart for use in lighting up OSA. No need to rely on a PPP energy blast that way. I've even got a macro for it, where I simply use the Double Tap to auto-acquire and fire my Taser Dart at my Oil Slick Arrow on command ... without needing to manually mouseclick to switch targets.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

Ninjas do good damage but they really suck at taking aggro.

I've tried Ninja/Dark up to only about lvl 15. I think Ninja/Dark has some good synergies but the healing aoe radius is kinda small. The fear will help a lot I bet.

The only other Ninja combo that survives well is Ninja/FF. I have one at lvl 46. I just eventually got bored of bubbling.

I think I'll try Ninja/Pain before Ninja/Thermal. Thermal requires bubbling too. At least with /Pain, you have an aoe buff for resistance.

I think Ninja/Storm could be good you. You may need to draw aggro to yourself with Hurrican.

I haven't played my Ninja/Dark for a while, but as I recall it was really effective (Well, as a MM it's hard not to be... even some petless MM's can do okay (Not me personally but others that are good with things like that))

I played my Ninja/Dark back when it was melee pets that where screwed over by dodgy AI (They would often stand back and use only their 1-2 ranged attacks) and clearly remember using Team Teleport to good effect (Teleport into melee range, debuff and watch everything drop)

But I'm not too knowledgable about Ninja's as I only have one Ninja MM that I don't play often (I'm not fond of them )

I have a Ninja/FF/Mace Mastermind. By using the 5% defense IO, all of the henchmen are softcapped to Range/Melee/AoE, with the Jounin having about 55%. But I also went with Mace as a patron to access Power Boost. When used with the bubbles, it grants the Genin and Oni about 55% defense to all positions and the Jousnin about 64%. This is great because you can ignore a few -defense debuffs that get through.

Your Jounin and Oni will very rarely die, but the poor Genin will still need to be replaced fairly often despite being well above the softcap to all positions.

I rolled up a Ninja/Thermal shortly after getting sick of the new bots melee mindset.

I've so far been really impressed. He blazed through Praetoria like it was nothing and just recently took down Protean all solo.

The shields really help with survivability, even with minimal slotting and DO's. It's amazing how they can stand in a group with little healing on my part until the shields drop, then their health appears to be on a constant drain.

Still enjoying it though! Just playing with various popmenu options for him atm.

No one has mentioned /Traps at all. I would think there would be some good synergy there, too; not quite as much +def as FF, but a well rounded suite of debuffs to accompany it all.

Anyone play a Ninja/Traps? How's it play?

Funny you should ask Eiko-chan, I've been messing around with a nin/traps who's 37 atm, they're just pretty rare out there so its no wonder no one has mentioned it >_<. Anyway nin/traps is fantastic, I use the seeker drones (which many ppl dont for some reason) and it really seems to help me out every spawn with the -tohit (which i have it slotted for) and they can sort of take alpha. Although I use the *Ima tp u in my traps foo!!!* method so it rly wouldn't matter what my primary is...i tp it, kill it, move on. I couldn't rly tell you how thier survivability is because everything is too debuffed and mezzed up to even hit em', lol.

I recently returned to the game after close to a year's break. My 35ish Ninja/Pain was one of the last MMs that I hopped on. I forgot just how squishy ninjas were until then. At this point I can't believe I got them as far as I did. As pain, I spend all my time healing, and always falling behind. After a few missions, I had had enough.

But, I love the look and feel of ninjas, and they do great single-target damage. So I re-rolled as a ninja/storm, and am sooooo glad I did. The added survivability from debuffs and control >>>>>>>>>>> the healing of pain. I much more enjoy putting mobs on their arses with ice storm, and de-buffing them with hurricane, and actually having time to use personal attacks (yes, I know sub-optimal) and observe the controlled chaos of my pets in action. As pain I didn't have time to enjoy the carnage, it was always a mad rush to just keep them alive.

One other minus for ninja/pain is you cannot slot recharge intensive sets, so that's another 5% def and 10% resist you cannot use. I don't consider myself a min/maxer in CoH, but I try to avoid combinations that do not allow all 4 pet aura IOs.