This idea is interesting, but sadly for this game I suspect the Devs might consider it to be "too much effort to create for too few people who'd use it".
There are many ideas I've seen for SG membership improvements that are similar to this. I think one that has a better chance of happening at this point is allowing SGs to have members of any alignments the Leader of the SG chooses to allow. As with your idea there's comic book precedents for groups to be made up of both heroic and villainous members at the same time. There's really no logical reason why the SG concept should be restricted to certain alignments. As groupings of players the system should be flexible enough to allow players to form groupings of any types of members they want.
I know years ago many people set up "blueside" SGs and "redside" SGs because we could not have our hero and villain characters play together. Now that the characters can crossover the game should allow SGs to effectively "crossover" so that memberships can merge into one group if they want to. This might actually cover much of concern your suggestion was trying to account for. 
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not to mention that anyone could literaly rob from any or all sg's they belonged to instead of just 1. /unsigned.
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
not to mention that anyone could literaly rob from any or all sg's they belonged to instead of just 1. /unsigned.
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If someone is dumb enough to give access to storage bins to someone that just joined their SG they deserved to get robbed.
I like this idea. The whole guild system (which is what super groups are decended from) is unnecessarily cliquey and tends to hive people off.
Imagine if you were only allowed to join one online forum, or you were only allowed to join one sports team ("oops, sorry, looks like you're on the baseball team. You can't play golf.")
There's really no reason for the current restriction, if you think about it. It's just a holdover from Everquest.
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it doesn't have to be a new member that does this. it could be an old member that has access and gets a bug up their ***. |
Originally Posted by Lucky
If someone is dumb enough to give access to storage bins to someone that just joined their SG they deserved to get robbed.
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The whole guild system (which is what super groups are decended from) is unnecessarily cliquey and tends to hive people off. Imagine if you were only allowed to join one online forum, or you were only allowed to join one sports team ("oops, sorry, looks like you're on the baseball team. You can't play golf.") There's really no reason for the current restriction, if you think about it. It's just a holdover from Everquest. |
Technically, you already can! Make a second toon, that's similar to the first, say they're the same, and join a second supergroup!
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That a load of bull. I've seen several SG's where the thief was one of the leaders. Someone that was a long standing trusted member who got in an argument with the other leaders and decided to plunder everything and quit. And a year or two ago there was a big stink over how an SG leader of a large SG, who had been playing for years suddenly decided to quit the game but first kicked everyone from the SG (it may have been more than one SG) before quitting the SG himself.
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Originally Posted by Lucky
If someone is dumb enough to give access to storage bins to someone that just joined their SG they deserved to get robbed.
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Why?
I'd like to see some more/better reasons than "it happens in the comics sometimes" (usually with overexposed/overmarketed characters, IMO) and "to spread prestige evenly around a coalition."
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I'd love to see this implemented, along with a variety of other supergroup changes (they really need a major overhaul, or even to be redesigned from the ground up).
You'd probably have to use a new Supergroup window filter, similar to the Friends window filter, so that you could pick which membership you want to view (and represent). We could probably do away with "Super Group Mode" as having anything to do with prestige and just make it switch costume colors to match whatever SG you have selected.
I do not think that you should earn prestige for all the groups you are in though... either you'd have to split it equally among them all, making you less desirable as a prestige earner than someone who's loyalties aren't divided, or you earn multiples of the current rate, making it important to be in as many SGs as possible. It would be better, in my not-so-humble opinion, if you just earned your own prestige budget and donated it (in whatever amount you desired) as needed to whichever group or groups you want.
Some other changes that I think would go well with this would be to have every container in a base have it's own permissions roster (and also to hold more than 30 items, and have it's base rent addition modified by the highest number of items that have been stored in it over the previous month), so that the storage item's creator can choose who gets to put things into or take things out of it. These permissions can be based on SG rank, or individuals can be granted specific rights.
There should also be a "Allow @Global Access" permission that SG leaders can set for characters/players, so that if you want someone to have access to the base or other assets even if they just built/rebuilt a character, switched alignments, or whatever... That player could be allowed to have all their toons in the group, without having to take up multiple character slots. This would also simplify life for folks like me who like maintaining a "Solo Group" just to keep a base for storage or tinkering with base design.
The very concept of "Super(Hero) Groups" and "Villain Groups" should be merged. There's no fundamental difference between how the two function, aside from the new complications with side-switching. And side switching of an entire group (while maintaining assets earned over potentially many years) or even just a few members who have either "gone rogue" or "gone undercover" should be supported. Basically, the game should not dictate who a Supergroup allows in it's ranks. That's RP info and should be left up to the players to RP through on their own, if they even care, and aren't just using the SG as a player association with a base for storage and zone transport.
It's very simple... put the tools in the players hands to run their SGs (Hero, Villain, or otherwise) how they want to and get what they want out of those groups.
(If you don't want to take risks of somebody stealing your stuff, don't trust them with it, but don't tell everybody else that just because you don't want to trust a character who's a part of multiple groups, that nobody else should be allowed to trust them either)
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no. just no. plain and simple. this is why you can have coalitions with other sg's. you can RP that it is one big sg.
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Originally Posted by Starhammer
I'd love to see this implemented, along with a variety of other supergroup changes (they really need a major overhaul, or even to be redesigned from the ground up).
You'd probably have to use a new Supergroup window filter, similar to the Friends window filter, so that you could pick which membership you want to view (and represent). We could probably do away with "Super Group Mode" as having anything to do with prestige and just make it switch costume colors to match whatever SG you have selected. I do not think that you should earn prestige for all the groups you are in though... either you'd have to split it equally among them all, making you less desirable as a prestige earner than someone who's loyalties aren't divided, or you earn multiples of the current rate, making it important to be in as many SGs as possible. It would be better, in my not-so-humble opinion, if you just earned your own prestige budget and donated it (in whatever amount you desired) as needed to whichever group or groups you want. Some other changes that I think would go well with this would be to have every container in a base have it's own permissions roster (and also to hold more than 30 items, and have it's base rent addition modified by the highest number of items that have been stored in it over the previous month), so that the storage item's creator can choose who gets to put things into or take things out of it. These permissions can be based on SG rank, or individuals can be granted specific rights. There should also be a "Allow @Global Access" permission that SG leaders can set for characters/players, so that if you want someone to have access to the base or other assets even if they just built/rebuilt a character, switched alignments, or whatever... That player could be allowed to have all their toons in the group, without having to take up multiple character slots. This would also simplify life for folks like me who like maintaining a "Solo Group" just to keep a base for storage or tinkering with base design. The very concept of "Super(Hero) Groups" and "Villain Groups" should be merged. There's no fundamental difference between how the two function, aside from the new complications with side-switching. And side switching of an entire group (while maintaining assets earned over potentially many years) or even just a few members who have either "gone rogue" or "gone undercover" should be supported. Basically, the game should not dictate who a Supergroup allows in it's ranks. That's RP info and should be left up to the players to RP through on their own, if they even care, and aren't just using the SG as a player association with a base for storage and zone transport. It's very simple... put the tools in the players hands to run their SGs (Hero, Villain, or otherwise) how they want to and get what they want out of those groups. (If you don't want to take risks of somebody stealing your stuff, don't trust them with it, but don't tell everybody else that just because you don't want to trust a character who's a part of multiple groups, that nobody else should be allowed to trust them either) |
I like this idea, it takes things a step beyond coalition but on the individual level. Additionally it might be a potential way for Rogues and Vigilantes to access bases in both realms. . .
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You can RP anything you want... you can RP that your powers can hit harder with ED... that doesn't make it true. The tools we have don't do the job they need to, so we need better tools. Aside from inventory management (because we all know how important allocation of loot should be in a friggin super-being world... jeez) you could run a Supergroup better with MySpace and Vent than you can with the in game tools. I don't think we're wrong for wanting better, and retorting in a snarky and condescending manner won't change that.
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
no. just no. plain and simple. this is why you can have coalitions with other sg's. you can RP that it is one big sg.
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Dear NCsoft, if you go through with this shutdown you've guaranteed you'll not see another dime from me on any project you put out, ever.
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ok then. what happens when the super leader changes and someone gets a bug up their *** and set all permissions to just them? don't think it will happen? i know it will. or what happens when any leader gets a bug up their *** and kicks everyone under them? none of the people that they kick have access to anything anymore. |
Originally Posted by Starhammer
You can RP anything you want... you can RP that your powers can hit harder with ED... that doesn't make it true. The tools we have don't do the job they need to, so we need better tools. Aside from inventory management (because we all know how important allocation of loot should be in a friggin super-being world... jeez) you could run a Supergroup better with MySpace and Vent than you can with the in game tools. I don't think we're wrong for wanting better, and retorting in a snarky and condescending manner won't change that.
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point being, there are to many problems that can happen that the devs just do not want to deal with with a system like this.
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Then why do you insist on responding that way whenever anyone disagrees with you?|
Originally Posted by Starhammer
retorting in a snarky and condescending manner won't change that.
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The truth of the matter is that we don't need multiple SG memberships. Smaller groups of players use Coalitions to stay in touch while larger groups use Global channels to socialize. Not only are the global channels cross faction, they are also cross server. So up to 2,500 players can chat and coordinate events anywhere in the game on each global channel. And each account can join 10 global channels. That means each player can have access to a community of up to 25,000 different people.
If the issue is about getting access to different bases, there's nothing players need access to multiple bases for.
5 years ago bases were vital to fast transportation. Today it can take longer to use a bases teleports for transportation than it takes a player to use one of the other teleport alternatives. Mission teleport, Team teleport, went/BM teleport, Praetorian Underground teleport, Oroborous portal, RWZ transport hub, Pocket D transport hub, Midnighters Club transport hub, Train's, Ferry's, Blackline helicopter. And when I19 is released the Trains and Ferry's will go to all stops. We won't have to switch anymore.
If the issue is about storage, now that we can send things via email each player can easily store far more items on his/her various characters than any base can hold. Each character can hold up to 10 enhancements, 20 inspirations, 25 recipes, 85 IO salvage, 396 Halloween salvage, 9,999 Candy Cane Salvage, with another 50 assorted salvage in the Vault. On top of all that players can also store enhancements, inspirations, recipes, and salvage in up to 22 of their Consignment House transaction slots. Recipes and salvage can be stored in stacks of 10.
Multiply that by up to 396 characters and add another 20 items that can be stored in emails. Players can also choose to store extra enhancements in a second build on each character and pull them off with any one of the many respecs available in the game.
SG's on the other hand are limited to 18 storage bins. They can hold a minimum of 540 assorted salvage or 1800 assorted enhancements/inspirations which, unless it's a solo SG, is shared with as many as 150 players.
Forbin_Project, coalitions do not encompass both Hero & Villain groups. . . Ideally, from my point of view anyway, that would be the real benefit of being able to join multiple groups. Being able to use teleporters in both realms would make life so much easier for Rogues & Vigilantes. Yes, I really do want some things to be a bit easier for players, travel and navigation being big items on my list, and this seems to be a means to accomplish that.
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You are right base teleports don't encompass both factions, so travel is limited in that manner. But the simpler solution to that problem is to lift the restriction that prevents SG's from placing and using the other factions terleports. |
Originally Posted by Remaugen
Forbin_Project, coalitions do not encompass both Hero & Villain groups. . . Ideally, from my point of view anyway, that would be the real benefit of being able to join multiple groups. Being able to use teleporters in both realms would make life so much easier for Rogues & Vigilantes. Yes, I really do want some things to be a bit easier for players, travel and navigation being big items on my list, and this seems to be a means to accomplish that.
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It would be much simpler for the devs to put a flag on characters so hereos can only use hero teleports, Villains the reverse, and Vig's & Rogue's can use all.
I know it's possible because once (couple of years ago) I was on a cross faction team as a villain and when I died I was given a choice of which base I wanted to rez in. I chose and found myself in the hero base. I couldn't use anything because I wasn't flagged as a hero. All I could do was exit at the base entrance.
I also know for a fact it's a simple issue of changing how those base items are flagged for use because about a year ago there was a badge bug that unlocked all of the SG badges for bases and I was able to craft and place several Villain only base items in my base. One of the things I tried placing was the villain beacons. When I realized I couldn't use them I deleted them and used the badly needed prestige for other things.
Had I known the day would come when we had sideswitching, I would have made some sacrifices and bought all the villain beacons and kept them on the side. As a consolation I may be one of the very few people who currently has those sweet Arachnos pop up missle turrets in his Hero base as proof we could easily have access to and use both sides equipment.
I would be happy with anything that let us use base teleporters in each zone. My Rogue-Villains have earned the exploration badges in several Paragon Locations, they even show up in the Villain Group (SG) badges, but I cannot set a beacon in the Villain base. I would be happy to forgo multiple SG membership if I could set Blue side beacons on my Red base, and vica versa of course. . .
instead of letting us earn prestige for multiple SGs, why not make it so that if you are grouped with members of your coalition, all the SGs in attendence earn prestige from all coalition members scaled by SG attendance. Meaning if you have 4 people from a 2 people from b and 1 from c with a random. Then SG A would get the largest share of coalition prestige followed by B and C and the random SG would only gain from that member and random member would only gain for thier sg.
I have a small SG but we have a very large coalition and most of my SG members regularly team up with almost all coalition members. Would help those with branch SGs or smaller ones get a better base or funtionability set up in order to better be able to invite new members.
Also, while we can use everything in coalition SGs except storage, we are unable to rez to any other SG. I would like to see the option to go to coalition base or allow grouped coalition members to designate extta stats (heals, damage,hold) to be split proportionatly among coalition team SGs. It takes forever to earn 200 Mil heal point for a small SG.
Right now players are restricted to being a member of only one SG. It'd be nice to be part of several. There's precedent for this in comicbook lore, what with Wolverine being part of every supergroup and special team going. I understand that Coalitions allow for co-ordination between allied SGs, but you're only earning prestige for one.
I propose that players be allowed to join multiple SGs (max 5) with any prestige earned being split between SGs, so the more SGs you are a part of, the less you earn for each. The SG chat channel could be modified to resemble the Coalition chat e.g
Supergroup:[SG name]Playername: Chatty chatty chat.
Another caveat is that you can only be Super Leader of one SG, to prevent any abuse. Thus far the only thing I haven't found a salient solution for is the SG name above the toons head. I was thinking perhaps some sort of option box or something.
Feedback, suggestions, torrents of abuse* are welcome. Tis after all, merely a suggestion.
*within forum rules.
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