Looking for fun group oriented AT


Amy_Amp

 

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Looking to make a Scrapper AT thats useful in group situations so I can play with friends more often. One of my bros said DM/SD is really good, but neither of us have played it so its just based on what he has seen. Does anyone have any suggestions?


 

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Shield scrappers actually are really good on teams. Although next to stalkers, scrappers are really the least team-oriented AT in the game, when you play a shield scrapper, you bring a lot to a team.

First, Shield Charge. It's a big, shop-wrecking AoE that knocks down all the bad guys. If there's a better opening move to mitigate an alpha and do tons of damage, I haven't seen it. Second, AAO is a fantastic taunt aura, so keeping aggro off your squishy teammates is pretty effortless. And then with Grant Cover and Phalanx Fighting, you can actually give and take some extra defense to and from your friends, although this latter really isn't much to write home about.

But anyway, if I were considering a Shield Scrapper for teaming hijinx, I'd probably not go with Dark Melee. While a great solo utility set, DM has poor AoE. On teams, AoE damage is generally more important than single-target damage. Therefore Fire/Shield or Elec/Shield might be good choices because of their outstanding AoE dps. Alternatively, Broadsword/Shield is a great choice if you're looking to "tank" for the teams you play with. Parry gives you valuable defense above what Shield brings, making the set very survivable on SOs while leveling. My BS/SD main tanked most of the TFs in the game while leveling up, and I never had any issues with survivability or aggro leak.


 

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I'll totally agree with all Chaos_String had to say -- I've got a fledgling 42nd (?) DM/Shield scrapper, and while it's awesome to follow the tank and Soul Drain + Shield Charge and send things flying, after that goes off I often feel like a one trick pony. "Hold still, you Council scum! I've still got Shadow Maul for an AoE! And, uh, look! Sands of Mu!"

Since I was just extolling the virtues of DB/WP in another thread, that's another pair of scrapper sets that also combine a taunt aura (Rise to the Challenge) with a PBAoE attack and two cone attacks. It's a little tank-like for "keeping aggro off your squishy teammates", has some nice attacks that do decent damage, and I think it's fun to play.

Beware, though -- it gets a little infuriating setting up a Dual Blades combo on a boss just to watch him get blasted/knocked back out of range by a teammate. "One, two, THREE -- awww, crap!" Again. And again. And... "Will you STOP that?!"

Most of the time, I really have a blast with that scrapper, and I love it so much that I've got a DB/WP tank and a DB/WP brute as well, and I'm thinking now about a DB/WP stalker.

On the other hand, when three friends all decide to play their energy/energy blasters and/or MA scrappers at the same time, I just park my DB scrapper so I don't just spend the night denting my desk with my forehead.


"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner

30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04

 

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Actually, I'm gonna have to go against fire/shield and elec/shield. You just do so much AoE damage that you often make your teammates feel useless. If you kill everything stupidly fast, what are your teammates gonna do?

Also, in case you couldn't tell, this is sarcasm.


 

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Scrapper may appear as a not very group oriented AT, actually they are not in the early stages of the game. You cant really tank, you have "ok" AoE but nothing close to blasters, you often die because your taunt aura drains more than your weak defense can handle.

BUT, after IOing or/and level 40+ Scrappers become the ultimate damage dealer.
First of: This game is all about Fulcrum Shift. If you have this buff you WILL kick *****, if you dont you wont. Scrappers are the highest damage AT that can survive mele, tho benefit of fulcrum shift. Most baslters will just die on huge +4 packs because of AoE (Nemesis flame throwers) and aggro limit. Scrappers have the power to survive this and therefore often sit at +300% damage or more.

Second point is that AoE becomes less important when you are in a hight level team. At some point even tankers, defenders or trollers can melt down the minion/leut trash without any effort. Now it doesnt mean AoE is usless but your ability to do very high damage will be mostly revelant on bad *** AVs and such.

Now if you are looking for a very overall team-friendly AT maybe you should try a Tanker, a Corruptor or Controller. I m not saying neither blasters are bad, their ability to deal great damage at -range- makes them very handy in some missions or against some AV. Scrappers are "just" the ultimate damage.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MunkiLord View Post
Actually, I'm gonna have to go against fire/shield and elec/shield. You just do so much AoE damage that you often make your teammates feel useless. If you kill everything stupidly fast, what are your teammates gonna do?

Also, in case you couldn't tell, this is sarcasm.
heh... it's actually true though. Especially if you play on 2-3 man teams. The healer won't do any thing because you don't need heals.. tankers won't do anything because you don't need tanks... debuffers won't have time to set up for each spawn. Buffers are boring to begin with, imho.

2-3 scrappers would be a good option and equally fun for both.


I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.

 

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Make a Brute instead. You're more or less like a Scrapper, but you get a Taunt as a primary power choice and are much better at holding aggro thanks to a watered down version of Gauntlet in your attacks which helps your teammates out. If you are playing a RES based secondary, you are better able to benefit from teammate buffs than an equivalent Scrapper.

I've found my Brutes to be better able to be team friendly than my Scrappers. Some of my Brutes can tank if the team needs it, and once they get Fury built up (which is easy to do with the recent change), they carry their weight on the damage front as well.


 

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If you know you're going to be playing your characters together quite a bit, it would be fun to all take leadership toggles. 2-3 people with leadership is pretty insane. If you increase that to 4-8, it gets downright nasty.

Also, don't discount the single target focused scrappers as useless in team situations. I can guarantee that a team doing boss heavy missions would miss a scrapper if he went missing. You may not do as much total damage as a blaster, but taking down purple bosses without taking much damage yourself will make everyone happy.

Side Note: Personally, I still want to duo a pair of Arachnos Soldiers and get all the leadership toggles. The pair would practically be invincible by 20.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MunkiLord View Post
Actually, I'm gonna have to go against fire/shield and elec/shield. You just do so much AoE damage that you often make your teammates feel useless. If you kill everything stupidly fast, what are your teammates gonna do?

Also, in case you couldn't tell, this is sarcasm.
All sarcasm aside that is probably about 75% true. I've read a lot of complaints about people teaming with shield scrappers.


Virtue: @Santorican

Dark/Shield Build Thread

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santorican View Post
All sarcasm aside that is probably about 75% true. I've read a lot of complaints about people teaming with shield scrappers.

Once did a PuG all scrapper ITF and we ended up with 6 fire/sd or elec/sd(5 with massive IO bonuses), a dm/sd(i think), and a kat/regen. I actually felt bad for the kat/regen. Though the ITF took us right at 21 minutes.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MunkiLord View Post
Once did a PuG all scrapper ITF and we ended up with 6 fire/sd or elec/sd(5 with massive IO bonuses), a dm/sd(i think), and a kat/regen. I actually felt bad for the kat/regen. Though the ITF took us right at 21 minutes.
LOL wow that is kind of sad. Its going to be a sad day when AAo gets nerfed, and a glorious day for every other set.


Virtue: @Santorican

Dark/Shield Build Thread

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santorican View Post
LOL wow that is kind of sad. Its going to be a sad day when AAo gets nerfed, and a glorious day for every other set.
Not really, every other set will still feel underpowered on teams with well built aoe heavy toons like mm's, fire/kins, etc. There's a reason most melee toons will often get the 'lol melee' when super teams are being built for speed tf's and what not. This game is about buffs/debuffs and aoe when teaming is involved, and it's involved a lot due to the fact this is an mmo.

And while scrappers are still one of the better soloing classes, there are classes that blow them away in terms of teaming that are on a similar level solo, and many stronger team at's have been getting solo buffs, while most scrappers remain pretty underpowered in terms of what they bring to a team.

So while a fire/sd is in fact devastating on teams, that does not justify yet another nerf to SD. Nobody is getting overwhelmed by a ma/sd or dm/sd in a team run. It's the combination of fsc from fm, sc from sd and fireball from a power pool. It's like calling for fire or kin from the controllers powersets to be nerfed because fire/kin is such a potent combo.

Whenever someone calls for nerfs to scrappers, I have to wonder how they are ignoring how powerful the other at's are. I love scrappers because I love melee, but if I was going for pure power on a team, I wouldn't even include scrappers. For example, take a team of well built corruptors and a team of well built scrappers and run them through every tf in this game, and the corruptors will obliterate the scrappers in finish times. Same for just about any at that has access to buffs/debuffs. So to complain about the minor buff scrappers get from aao, relative to what other at's have access to, is absurd to me.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santorican View Post
All sarcasm aside that is probably about 75% true. I've read a lot of complaints about people teaming with shield scrappers.
I teamed with a shield scrapper (and a couple other shield ATs) on a team of 8 the other day. I was on my Kinetics / Archery defender. I could not get off a meaningful Rain of Arrows. Almost every minion was dead by the time my animation was finished. I had trouble getting a good fulcrum shift to buff everyone with.

I think a Defender, Corrupter, or some other buff-focused character is best for teaming. Scrappers are mostly great for soloing.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syntax42 View Post
I teamed with a shield scrapper (and a couple other shield ATs) on a team of 8 the other day. I was on my Kinetics / Archery defender. I could not get off a meaningful Rain of Arrows. Almost every minion was dead by the time my animation was finished. I had trouble getting a good fulcrum shift to buff everyone with.

I think a Defender, Corrupter, or some other buff-focused character is best for teaming. Scrappers are mostly great for soloing.
While my Elec/Shield has been on the side of 'complained about for killing too fast' it surprises me how nobody thinks to up the rep a notch or 2. If you took this team to +4 then SC and RoA would have both been useful in every mob, and Fulcrum Shift would have meant you hardly notice a change in killing time.

So I would say roll a shield scrapper, and up the diff!


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Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
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Outside of /shield, I like /dark for a team based scrapper due to it's damage aura and controls.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp View Post
Outside of /shield, I like /dark for a team based scrapper due to it's damage aura and controls.

This.

A well built DM/DA (for example) with Darkness Mastery makes a decent debuffer to help the team.


 

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I can only speak from experience playing a team friendly BS/Regen, but don't neglect power pools. With fitness becoming an inherent in I19, dip into the Leadership pool and be sure to grab Vengeance for "Hold on, I want to try something.." moments on your team. Maneuvers will compliment your Grant Cover shield abilities. Stimulant from the Medicine Pool is great for helping mezzable ATs in the first half of fights, and if you have a self revive you should consider grabbing a Resuscitator temporary power from the auction house - Tier 9s mean even if we wipe, chances are good that we'll be back on our feet and able to regroup the team.


The Paladin
Steel Canyon, Virtue
Exalted

@Paladin

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
I can only speak from experience playing a team friendly BS/Regen, but don't neglect power pools. With fitness becoming an inherent in I19, dip into the Leadership pool and be sure to grab Vengeance for "Hold on, I want to try something.." moments on your team. Maneuvers will compliment your Grant Cover shield abilities. Stimulant from the Medicine Pool is great for helping mezzable ATs in the first half of fights, and if you have a self revive you should consider grabbing a Resuscitator temporary power from the auction house - Tier 9s mean even if we wipe, chances are good that we'll be back on our feet and able to regroup the team.

In my opinion, with the I19 changes, EVERY scrapper should take the Leadership pool.

Seriously. Vengeance is just THAT good, and there's something deliciously Scrappery about feeding off the poor defeated squishies to lay down YET MORE SMACK.

Leadership. It's what's for dinner.

Perhaps more importantly, all the guys commenting about how useless Scrappers are on "uber teams"?

Consider eight scrappers with eight sets of stacked leadership buffs. Mega-damage builds like claws/fire/mu and fire/fire/soul are suddenly ALSO survivable for the very low price of one defeat every 90 seconds or so. Assuming the eight sets of manuevers buffs isn't enough to keep them up and laying waste.

You could call it the wolf pack.

Once people figure out how incredibly broken buff-stacking is combined with the innate scrapper traits?

Thank you for your time, move along.....