BlueBattler has already stated that he suffers from altitis. There's various reasons why he would want to do such a thing. Two of the more obvious reasons are A) He wants to create a toon as a sort of homage to the game, and thus integrate that character into a piece of lore beyond what is actually in-game B) he's bored and/or run out of ideas.
Now as you've clearly stated you've seen it done before, and done well, why should any sort of restriction be placed upon Blue, or anyone else, for that matter? Ridicule and jokes aside, it's their $15/month, so let em do what they want.
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You seem too be construing a personal opinion as some kind of attack against BlueBattler, where nothing could be further from the truth.|
Originally Posted by Kyzock
BlueBattler has already stated that he suffers from altitis. There's various reasons why he would want to do such a thing. Two of the more obvious reasons are A) He wants to create a toon as a sort of homage to the game, and thus integrate that character into a piece of lore beyond what is actually in-game B) he's bored and/or run out of ideas.
Now as you've clearly stated you've seen it done before, and done well, why should any sort of restriction be placed upon Blue, or anyone else, for that matter? Ridicule and jokes aside, it's their $15/month, so let em do what they want. |
You also seem to be construing a personal opinion as an attempt to "lay down the law", where nothing could be further from the truth.
My opinion that using NPC's in such a way is silly, crass, and rather presumptuous is just that, MY opinion. I don't expect people to do what I say, nor would I ever actually ASK them too. The OP wanted people's thoughts on the idea, so I gave them.
As for what I've seen before, in that, I was referring to characters being associated with NPC's through fiction, such as the NPC being a contact of peripheral character (rarely a main character); NOT being related to them. I've NEVER seen a player character related to an NPC being done well.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Y'know, dude, other people can speak up for themselves. They don't need you hurling yourself at other peoples opinions.|
Originally Posted by Kyzock
BlueBattler has already stated that he suffers from altitis. There's various reasons why he would want to do such a thing. Two of the more obvious reasons are A) He wants to create a toon as a sort of homage to the game, and thus integrate that character into a piece of lore beyond what is actually in-game B) he's bored and/or run out of ideas.
Now as you've clearly stated you've seen it done before, and done well, why should any sort of restriction be placed upon Blue, or anyone else, for that matter? Ridicule and jokes aside, it's their $15/month, so let em do what they want. |
Esepcially when it's really not needed. You seem to be making some whole 'Big Bad EU, omg evil peoples!' thing out of this and other threads...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I got a character in Longbow, so they make a fair few references to her ultimate Boss, Ms. Liberty. Never really had it become a problem, but then her relationship with her is relegated to water cooler gossip and the very rare, brief conversation.|
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
As for what I've seen before, in that, I was referring to characters being associated with NPC's through fiction, such as the NPC being a contact of peripheral character (rarely a main character); NOT being related to them. I've NEVER seen a player character related to an NPC being done well.
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I've never said a player can't play something if they want too, but I will outline the boundaries where I find it just too rediculous or irritating for me to want to jump in with them. In this case, being blood relatives of important NPC's or major mythological characters is both over-played and just silly to me. Same if you claim to be thier best friend or "They owe everything to me" If you can find people who'll RP with that, then good luck to you (And the EU has plenty who would) but it's not my cup of tea.
Though I have dabbled with the idea of a joke character who 'claims' to be the real hero. Those Phalanx people would be nothing without him! But it'd all be lies of course.
To be fair, about half the people telling him not to do it, are doing just the same thing in a different way.
Being the son of X character is pretty Sue-ish, but then so is chilling around X-characters house, because you're so awesome and best buds, or getting special privileges such as being able to set up an elite unit/squad of group Y.
That said its a comic book universe, its pretty hard to avoid being Sue-ish, and stuff like unexpected relations happens more often, than evil twins in cheesy soap operas.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Don't think anyone's disagreeing with that, finding it hard to think of a reference though from the EU side that'd justify the "Half the people here do it"|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
To be fair, about half the people telling him not to do it, are doing just the same thing in a different way.
Being the son of X character is pretty Sue-ish, but then so is chilling around X-characters house, because you're so awesome and best buds, or getting special privileges such as being able to set up an elite unit/squad of group Y. |
The Dusk Spiders maybe? Not sure if a collection of Arachnos washouts and misfits used as cannon fodder counts as Elite though.
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Well technically speaking it had both a player arbiter and player commander, both of which would score quite high on the Sue-ish rating, due to y'know being a high ranking member of a none player/canon organization.|
Originally Posted by Fanservice
Don't think anyone's disagreeing with that, finding it hard to think of a reference though from the EU side that'd justify the "Half the people here do it"
The Dusk Spiders maybe? Not sure if a collection of Arachnos washouts and misfits used as cannon fodder counts as Elite though. |
And at the same time as the joke squad, we did have a serious Arachnos SG running around too...
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Sure! But I don't think anyone from it is in this thread.
I admit the Arbiter in the Dusk Spider was weird, we'd have done fine with just a Commander. As really how Sueish is it being in charge of a group of people who infrequently try to kill you/get you in so much trouble your head explodes? With an amazing roster to draw from of a hard luck villianous Mastermind, a scientist who keeps trying to poison the troops with sandwiches, numerous failed experiments, a Bane Spider with narcolepsy and a shape shifting spy who can only speak in pidgeon english.
I kinda miss them now! It was like a disfunctional Suicide Squad. Which is really saying something.
Well VEATs dont get much of an option they all work for Recluse, and so have to interact.. or we end up with a huge army of rogue Arachnos, which give the canon covering them doesnt really work.
Also Villains have Patron powers, they do have a real relationship with the named NPCs, ok i dont think they get invited over for dinner or even coffee, but they will be interacting with them.
Also Vanguard , you work directly with the named NPCs.
Longbow , PPD FC, FP et al are different in that you make up your conection to them and the named NPCs
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Originally Posted by Rock_Powerfist
Well VEATs dont get much of an option they all work for Recluse, and so have to interact.. or we end up with a huge army of rogue Arachnos, which give the canon covering them doesnt really work.
Also Villains have Patron powers, they do have a real relationship with the named NPCs, ok i dont think they get invited over for dinner or even coffee, but they will be interacting with them. Also Vanguard , you work directly with the named NPCs. Longbow , PPD FC, FP et al are different in that you make up your conection to them and the named NPCs |
Technically the canon for a VEAT is that you are a 'rogue' Arachnos agent.
You know sneakily putting yourself on to the Project Destiny list, only to discover you are actually supposed to be on the list?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Originally Posted by Fanservice
Sure! But I don't think anyone from it is in this thread.
I admit the Arbiter in the Dusk Spider was weird, we'd have done fine with just a Commander. As really how Sueish is it being in charge of a group of people who infrequently try to kill you/get you in so much trouble your head explodes? With an amazing roster to draw from of a hard luck villianous Mastermind, a scientist who keeps trying to poison the troops with sandwiches, numerous failed experiments, a Bane Spider with narcolepsy and a shape shifting spy who can only speak in pidgeon english. I kinda miss them now! It was like a disfunctional Suicide Squad. Which is really saying something. |
The commander issue is Sue-ish because its not something that is in game as a playable option/class.
Essentially its being 'that guy' in a PnP RP session, the one that just has to be his favorite monster race, despite it not being a choice available to the players.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Oh, you mean like vampires? |
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Essentially its being 'that guy' in a PnP RP session, the one that just has to be his favorite monster race, despite it not being a choice available to the players.
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@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Since the ignore system doesn't work when you log out of the boards.
FFM You are entirely wrong.
How can vampires not be available to players, When there is a costume piece called Vampire Ears?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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There are no vampire powersets, therefore you cannot make a vampire character in any way other than to purely RP it. And vampire ears? Say what now? You need a pair of dinky lugholes to look like a vampire, now?|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Since the ignore system doesn't work when you log out of the boards.
FFM You are entirely wrong. How can vampires not be available to players, When there is a costume piece called Vampire Ears? |
And here's me thinking all you needed was to be a pretty boy and a terrible actor.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Yeah that one doesn't hold up either, since there isn't 'one' powerset that defines vampires.
Some cultures/myths give them Super Strength and enhanced reflexes and senses, SS/SR brute there or any of the weapon sets used with supernatural skill, Some give them regeneration, so obviously Regeneration. Others give them powers related to the mind, so that's controllers and doms of the mind kind.
Some myths claim they study magic, so that's pretty much all the power sets accounted for.
Other myths/stories claim rather than magic, they use alien technology, or stuff far more advanced than humans have, so that is all the power sets.
Edit to add:
Does any one know how to stop the boards randomly logging me out, I'm telling it to keep me logged in.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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yes , but beyond what your toon does in its mind , it is still in uniform working for Recluse , meeting all the named NPCs .|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Technically the canon for a VEAT is that you are a 'rogue' Arachnos agent.
You know sneakily putting yourself on to the Project Destiny list, only to discover you are actually supposed to be on the list? |
and no the boards randomly log me out too CB .
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That's almost like saying Masterminds are the only ones allowed to lead a SG or VG. As long as you can find people to follow you, you can be a leader. And in case of Arachnos that's actually easy to portray with just a few other Arachnos characters acting as your subordinates. In fact you could even consider the reinforcement skills to portray just that. In addition it's a hugh organization with alot of subdivisions, so even commanding one group isn't really something special. On top of that... you're rather powerful as an Arachnos Soldier/Widow (as the arcs show), so being just another lowlive in an organization that's all about "if you have the power to take it, you have a right to take it"...|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
The commander issue is Sue-ish because its not something that is in game as a playable option/class.
Essentially its being 'that guy' in a PnP RP session, the one that just has to be his favorite monster race, despite it not being a choice available to the players. |
What I do not agree with is people playing Arbiters (and Fateweavers) though, because even though everyone can get the badge for it, being an Arbiter means everyone attacking you is basically attacking Recluse, and that makes running around on RI with hostiles everywhere pretty...bizarre.
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Originally Posted by Rock_Powerfist
and no the boards randomly log me out too CB . |
Edit: Sorry, just realised I missed to add the most important part:
Personally I don't have a character who's related to any of the canon characters and I wouldn't encourage others to do that for reasons that have already been brought up here. The only characters I have, that have any connection to canon characters at all are my arachnos soldier an widow.
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Yup. However, as far as we know 'Commander' is simply just; regimental commander. Recluse has his own private army; there are arguably hundreds of said commanders, each with their own regiment, battalion, whatever.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Well technically speaking it had both a player arbiter and player commander, both of which would score quite high on the Sue-ish rating, due to y'know being a high ranking member of a none player/canon organization.
And at the same time as the joke squad, we did have a serious Arachnos SG running around too... |
Now, had they both been Marshall's, that would have been a whole different kettle of fail, as we know that there are only a finite number of Marshall's, one per zone/island iirc. Brass is the one for Cap Au Diable, Blitz is the Rogue Marshall in Warburg, etc.
Also, Arachnos spend so much time beating the snot out of each other, let alone anyone else, that they actually lend themselves pretty well to player organisations. What about if you end up fighting the Patrons? Simple; Recluse decided to see if you were worth killing off or keeping. You don't actually fight the big bad himself ((SPOILERS!!)) not in this dimension anyway, so, again, it all evens out.
Claiming to be a Marshall would be a huge no no. Arbiters? Well, they seem to have a lot of them in places like GV and whatnot. I personally avoid Arbiters now as I said, but if anyone can play 'em well, so let 'em.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I dunno, I've had that problem recently too, when it never used to happen. I guess they'll fix it at some point...|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Yeah that one doesn't hold up either, since there isn't 'one' powerset that defines vampires.
Some cultures/myths give them Super Strength and enhanced reflexes and senses, SS/SR brute there or any of the weapon sets used with supernatural skill, Some give them regeneration, so obviously Regeneration. Others give them powers related to the mind, so that's controllers and doms of the mind kind. Some myths claim they study magic, so that's pretty much all the power sets accounted for. Other myths/stories claim rather than magic, they use alien technology, or stuff far more advanced than humans have, so that is all the power sets. Edit to add: Does any one know how to stop the boards randomly logging me out, I'm telling it to keep me logged in. |
And, on this topic, what sets would a Commander have then? Because, by all accounts, we can get all the Arachnos powers, bar the Tarantula ones and a few shotgun blasts.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Set wise? He'd be a MM with 40+ Arachnos themed pets, air strikes and crowd control that lasted days if not months.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I dunno, I've had that problem recently too, when it never used to happen. I guess they'll fix it at some point...
And, on this topic, what sets would a Commander have then? Because, by all accounts, we can get all the Arachnos powers, bar the Tarantula ones and a few shotgun blasts. |
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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So...A Crab Spider? |
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Set wise? He'd be a MM with 40+ Arachnos themed pets, air strikes and crowd control that lasted days if not months.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Originally Posted by Dark_Respite
Yes, Blue's fics are quite the bomb.
(That's a compliment, btw, in case local slang translates that wrong.)Can you imagine your character being related to, say, Captain Castillo? Or Vernon von Grun? Fusionette? "Hi, I'm Fusionette's cousin- wait, don't run away! I don't even have energy powers, and I actually PASSED my SATs! Darn it... no one ever wants to team with me." Better yet, make a totally midget sized female character and relate her to Doc Delilah. "Yeah... she's my aunt. I think she got all the growth genes for her generation and mine. It's a thing. If I could reinforce her hat, I'd carry it as a shield." Michelle aka Samuraiko/Dark_Respite |
I actually have a toon who's well-woven with canon. She's not "related" to anyone, but she was sort of a failed dry run for the events that lead up to the creation of Terra.
Now Tectonica's a REALLY angry Stone/Fire tank.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Wait what? This doesn't match any of the Arachnos Commanders we fight in game.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Set wise? He'd be a MM with 40+ Arachnos themed pets, air strikes and crowd control that lasted days if not months.
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While Varrick did! The only thing slightly Sue-ish about him was his batman-esq ability to be ahead of the game, which I belive we both agreed on for the amusment of plots?
If you think being a Commander of a bunch of misfits is on the same level as being an Arbiter, well, your definition of that is as silly as your Godmodding one.
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Not to mention Krimzon, who was just an uber-tanked Crab Spider |
Originally Posted by Omega_Chief
Wait what? This doesn't match any of the Arachnos Commanders we fight in game.
While Varrick did! The only thing slightly Sue-ish about him was his batman-esq ability to be ahead of the game, which I belive we both agreed on for the amusment of plots? If you think being a Commander of a bunch of misfits is on the same level as being an Arbiter, well, your definition of that is as silly as your Godmodding one. |
Who has minions, crowd control, and airstri- teleporting bombs
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Not relatives, but specific plotlines that involve main characters from the game. For instance, I recently (and when I say recently, I mean yesterday) was hit with an idea for a villain who'd previously been a hero, and worked with the Phalanx. So naturally, she has a vendetta against them. It gets deeper than that, but that's the part where I'm like "Eh," because it sounds Sue-ish, and I really don't like Mary Sues as much as the next person.
What do you guys think?
The Mary Sue point is also a good one. Its the instinct to try and make a character 'better', when what actually makes them better is to make them stand alone well and thus more unique. Your gut instinct was right
But yeah, interactions are valid, so long as they are also reasonable.