Fitness become inherent? All SOA teams become STUPID?
By
Big_Soto,
Posted on: 2010-09-05 05:17 in Soldiers of Arachnos
Weren't SoAs already doing that? My Huntsman ran double leadership a good while ago, for example.
... just out of wondering... how different would this be from a kinetic's defender that took Speed Boost at level 12 and has been exempted down?
Bwah? I am not seeing how Exing and SB tie into anything? As far as I know, Stamina and such will be available at Level 1 or 2 (Castle didn't recall which).
Quote:
Yes, but (and you KNEW there was a "but" in there right?), with Fitness becoming inherent, it frees up three power choices in the build and makes packing them onto a crowded build much easier. Thus, making the possibility of an all-SOA team packing both and spending lots of time in spitting distance of the defense hard cap that much more likely.
|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Weren't SoAs already doing that? My Huntsman ran double leadership a good while ago, for example.
|
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
... looks like I am going to have to spell this one out.|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Bwah? I am not seeing how Exing and SB tie into anything? As far as I know, Stamina and such will be available at Level 1 or 2 (Castle didn't recall which).
|
A defender's Speed Boost can be gotten at level 12. If exempted down to level 8, they would still have this buff power.
An Arachnos, as mentioned in the first post, can get both the maneuvers sets by level 8.
An Arachnos can't run both sets at level 8 because of the end-drain.
However, with Stamina inherent, an Arachnos could run both powers by level 8.
However, the players could get the same effect, that extra endurance, by simply exempting down a Kinetics Defender.
The logic and tie-in reasoning here is very very very very simple: Players can get similar effects by teaming.
The same effect of giving players Stamina or Health earlier, as an inherent, can be replicated by simply teaming with other players.
The practical in-game effect of the change is negligible at the low to medium levels. More players will become more effective as they exit the low levels and enter the late teens to twentys as they can have more native powers rather than freeing up powers to take stamina at 20.
The practical in-game effect at the top-end is yet to be realized. Presuming a large portion, 75% or more, of the player-base takes stamina, that means the inherent change will free up 3 extra powers.
However, most players generally throw some slots into health and stamina.
As far as we know, there are no extra power slots being distributed as well, meaning that players will ultimately have less slots for their powers than they do now with the change of the pool to inherent.
It's a good thing that what you just said is nothing like what the topic of the thread is about.
In my case, I won't be slotting nor running the pool version of Maneuvers (too much end cost for not enough gain) and will instead be using it as a LotG mule, though I will be slotting the pool version of Tactics if I can manage to find the slots.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Double Maneuvers could be nice on a low-level team, since tankers and brutes usually aren't very good at mitigating damage at those levels. IMO it kinda diminishes in usefulness as the levels rise though.
Double Assault, on the other hand, is lovely all the way up to 50.
Quote:
Yes and no. Remember, SOAs don't really have DDR. So debuffs can get brutal real quick. Meanwhile if the SOA can cap their defenses normally (or come close), the double maneuvers can provide a nice (and stackable) pad against defense debuff.
|
Originally Posted by Intrinsic
Double Maneuvers could be nice on a low-level team, since tankers and brutes usually aren't very good at mitigating damage at those levels. IMO it kinda diminishes in usefulness as the levels rise though.
Double Assault, on the other hand, is lovely all the way up to 50. |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Freaking sweet. I can take three more powers now. I think I'll go with cloaking device and the rifle melee attack on my huntsman and pick up the melee stuff on my crab,.
But I fit Manuevars and Tactics into my VEAT builds already! 
So for me this would change nothing, except for the fact that I MAY beable to grab them earlier.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Yeah, I already take double maneuvers and double assault. Freeing up the fitness line would allow me to take tough though, and might actually make me consider taking tt:tactics.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by je_saist
... looks like I am going to have to spell this one out.
A defender's Speed Boost can be gotten at level 12. If exempted down to level 8, they would still have this buff power. An Arachnos, as mentioned in the first post, can get both the maneuvers sets by level 8. An Arachnos can't run both sets at level 8 because of the end-drain. However, with Stamina inherent, an Arachnos could run both powers by level 8. However, the players could get the same effect, that extra endurance, by simply exempting down a Kinetics Defender. The logic and tie-in reasoning here is very very very very simple: Players can get similar effects by teaming. The same effect of giving players Stamina or Health earlier, as an inherent, can be replicated by simply teaming with other players. The practical in-game effect of the change is negligible at the low to medium levels. More players will become more effective as they exit the low levels and enter the late teens to twentys as they can have more native powers rather than freeing up powers to take stamina at 20. The practical in-game effect at the top-end is yet to be realized. Presuming a large portion, 75% or more, of the player-base takes stamina, that means the inherent change will free up 3 extra powers. However, most players generally throw some slots into health and stamina. As far as we know, there are no extra power slots being distributed as well, meaning that players will ultimately have less slots for their powers than they do now with the change of the pool to inherent. |
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
Quote:
Can you please explain how a level 12 Defender and a level 8 SoA are supposed to team with each other?|
Originally Posted by je_saist
... looks like I am going to have to spell this one out.
A defender's Speed Boost can be gotten at level 12. If exempted down to level 8, they would still have this buff power. An Arachnos, as mentioned in the first post, can get both the maneuvers sets by level 8. An Arachnos can't run both sets at level 8 because of the end-drain. However, with Stamina inherent, an Arachnos could run both powers by level 8. However, the players could get the same effect, that extra endurance, by simply exempting down a Kinetics Defender. The logic and tie-in reasoning here is very very very very simple: Players can get similar effects by teaming. |
Make sure you think about it first (for once).
For me the changes will probably mean my Fort/Widow will be better at helping prevent a cascading wipe by taking Vengeance. My Fort has plenty of Endurance typically so more toggles in the form of Assault and Maneuvers are a given, but they'll actually be of more benefit to squishies rather than other SoAs since other SoAs are generally at the cap anyway.
My Widow will probably go with Aid Other/Self instead since I use her more solo, along with Assault.
Quote:
Only way I can think of that happening is in the RWZ AE building. Hard to get there for the SoA..I think it is hard....only went there once with a level 5 (I think) brute to team my with hubby's defender and I don't quite remember how difficult it was....I do recall cussin' once |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Can you please explain how a level 12 Defender and a level 8 SoA are supposed to team with each other?
Make sure you think about it first (for once). . |
Lisa.
So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try
***Dennis DeYoung
Quote:
Yep, that and the Halloween / Xmas events are the only two ways I can think of the two to ever be able to team together at those levels|
Originally Posted by McCharraigin
Only way I can think of that happening is in the RWZ AE building. Hard to get there for the SoA..I think it is hard....only went there once with a level 5 (I think) brute to team my with hubby's defender and I don't quite remember how difficult it was....I do recall cussin' once
Lisa. |
But I assume Je Saist has some magical way for it to be an everyday occurrence given the tone of his post (or it's just a terribad example which makes no sense, which is what I'm leaning towards).
Amazing boost for SoA, especially since they have alot of powers that require very few slots to work well, such as all the leaderships and the Auto's.
I am happy this is coming out. I know it will make PvE with VEATs a lot easier, but it will help them in PvP as well. I like to PvP with a Bane and a Fortunata and since they do not have an escape power in any of the PPP, it comes in handy to select Phase Shift. This mean on my VEATs for PvP I have Concealment, Speed, Leaping and Fitness. The AT still lacks a self heal (except for Crabs)and I always wanted Aid Self and now this will be possible. Or I can do a Widow Build (dont need a self heal much) and pick up leadership for Tactics to stack with Tactical Training: Leadership, and the Perception Proc to be able to see stalkers in hide in PvP. These ideas made me a happy man.
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
So even with 4 less power pool picks I fully expect to see the number of Pug VEATS that dont pick up the team toggles to be unchanged. Ya can't fix stupid.
Bots/Traps Guide for I19.5
RO Network
Quote:
So, you're saying that the overall impact of this change would be the same as if you had a higher-level (at least 20, to switch sides) Defender friend, exemping down, following you everywhere, and keeping Speed Boost up, aka every lowbie's dream?|
Originally Posted by je_saist
However, the players could get the same effect, that extra endurance, by simply exempting down a Kinetics Defender.
|
Stacking Assaults could also be compared to Siphon Power, or even Fulcrum Shift with enough of them.
Neither of those are "negligible".
You're right that it roughly replicates the effect of having a Kinetics Defender on the team. And several Force Field defenders. Without taking up any team slots.
As in "stupidly hard to kill".
Think about it. With Fitness out of the way (though still slotted), running both versions of Maneuvers on a team of 8.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.