Interesting.
Castle said they're available at level 1 or 2, so you didn't have to wait to get Stamina. So we get the entire Fitness pool at level 1 or 2? I wonder if we have to choose between Swift and Hurdle.
Simply getting the entire pool at level 1 or 2 would be fantastic beyond belief. I'll get bonus Swift and 3 power selections on all my characters.
Edit: before someone asks, yes they will be slottable as confirmed by Castle. Just like Sprint/Brawl are slottable. Also ohhhhn noooooo my poor brainnnnnnn I made the mistake of reading the Archetypes & Powers General Discussion thread on this, people are complaining about it.
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Been reading that thread myself.
All I can say is.
Space reserved for a super awesome Signature, someday...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silas
...people are complaining about it.
|
The only issue I'm gonna have with it is deciding what powers to put in their place; just about every build I have just gained 3 new powers, but I won't have any slots to spare for them. So I'm thinking Concealment for three LoTG spots, or SJ/SS (thank you, City Traveller).
But now the crochety old-timer in the back of my head is doing a spit-take with his daily Metamucil, vividly flashing back to a time when the game was rigid, inflexible, capricious, unyielding and occasionally cruel. A part of him is still there, fighting through buggy task-forces, wearing the exact same costume he put on his first day in Outbreak. This tether to a bleak past occasionally obscures the gleaming wonders around him, things he long believed to be impossible; Ouroboros, power customization, Ultra Mode, switching sides. And even now they whisper of incarnates, a power that, even in the Age of Inventions, sounds impossible. And as the old-timer reflects on these things he looks outside his window and watches the kids playing with akimbo pistols.
They'll never know how good they have it, he thinks. He turns his head to look at a wall nearly covered with picture frames of all shapes and sizes, all containing faded screenshots, forum posts and articles from the official site, in roughly chronological order from left to right. 18 Issues, 6 years and change, what feels like a lifetime. He thinks back to the kids outside. But do they have it too good? A part of him wants them to go back to those dark days and fight the battles he fought for 6 years for what they now enjoy. A selfish thought, he concedes. He realizes that what they now enjoy is something more than the work of a development team, but a community collaboration. He realizes too that the things that made the game hard were rarely the things that made it good. They were hurdles, obstacles, and there was a sense of achievement in leaping over them in the early days, but now his knees are weak and his feet are tired.
He gets up from the table and walks to his front door. He opens it and steps out onto the sidewalk of a busy downtown street. He has one last flashback, a day he would never forget, and three simple words.
I can fly.
And he still can.
@Demobot
Also on Steam
Yeah seriously. Almost all of my builds have a few powers which would be Nice To Have but couldn't fit them in.
Now I can. This is fantastic in my book.
People who didn't take Fitness before: You get free powers.
People who took Fitness before but didn't slot them: You get free powers.
People who took and slotted Fitness: You get free powers.
The City Traveller is also a very good point. Free SJ to go with my SS? Don't mind if I do 
But yeah, all the ******** about this blows my mind. It reminds me of some dude on the forums sig. I forget who it is, but basically saying that this game could print money and people would still complain that they weren't sequential or whatever.
Sad but true. I wonder if these people are like that in RL. All their girlfriend decides to go down on them just because and they sit there scowling because it's not full-on sex.
Edit: Quality post, Demo. A+, would read again. And man, the more I think about this the more I like it. My SS/FA gets to take Temp Prot and RotP, may even redo his build more and take Acrobatics and do something else with all the slots with -KB IOs. My Cold Corr can take Snowstorm and Aim, my Therm can take Recall Friend, etc.
Do want.
Oh and Kahlan? If you're reading this, take RoF on your Fire/Cold. I know it won't be slotted beyond the base slot, but would you? For me? Please?
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Quote:
Agreed. It was just getting a little rediculous making builds where getting hurdle/health/stam was a given.|
Originally Posted by Silas
Yeah seriously. Almost all of my builds have a few powers which would be Nice To Have but couldn't fit them in.
|
My controller and corruptor builds have always been crowded and I have had to make sacrifices for survivability. Now I'll be able to take Combat Jumping AND Acrobatics on all my trollers and corrs. That is just plain sexy!!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Silas
Oh and Kahlan? If you're reading this, take RoF on your Fire/Cold. I know it won't be slotted beyond the base slot, but would you? For me? Please?
|
Phantom Flight / Villainous Llewthorous
@TFury
@T.Fury
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Demobot
The only issue I'm gonna have with it is deciding what powers to put in their place; just about every build I have just gained 3 new powers, but I won't have any slots to spare for them. So I'm thinking Concealment for three LoTG spots, or SJ/SS (thank you, City Traveller).
But now the crochety old-timer in the back of my head is doing a spit-take with his daily Metamucil, vividly flashing back to a time when the game was rigid, inflexible, capricious, unyielding and occasionally cruel. A part of him is still there, fighting through buggy task-forces, wearing the exact same costume he put on his first day in Outbreak. This tether to a bleak past occasionally obscures the gleaming wonders around him, things he long believed to be impossible; Ouroboros, power customization, Ultra Mode, switching sides. And even now they whisper of incarnates, a power that, even in the Age of Inventions, sounds impossible. And as the old-timer reflects on these things he looks outside his window and watches the kids playing with akimbo pistols. They'll never know how good they have it, he thinks. He turns his head to look at a wall nearly covered with picture frames of all shapes and sizes, all containing faded screenshots, forum posts and articles from the official site, in roughly chronological order from left to right. 18 Issues, 6 years and change, what feels like a lifetime. He thinks back to the kids outside. But do they have it too good? A part of him wants them to go back to those dark days and fight the battles he fought for 6 years for what they now enjoy. A selfish thought, he concedes. He realizes that what they now enjoy is something more than the work of a development team, but a community collaboration. He realizes too that the things that made the game hard were rarely the things that made it good. They were hurdles, obstacles, and there was a sense of achievement in leaping over them in the early days, but now his knees are weak and his feet are tired. He gets up from the table and walks to his front door. He opens it and steps out onto the sidewalk of a busy downtown street. He has one last flashback, a day he would never forget, and three simple words. I can fly. And he still can. |
loves it.
I was really enjoying this thread then I read this sentence and the pervert in my kicked out all the other info I had already absorbed.
Quote:
| All their girlfriend decides to go down on them just because and they sit there scowling because it's not full-on sex. |
Back in MY day you had to EARN fitness by street sweeping Perez Park... uphill... both ways!
If it sucked for me, it should suck for everyone else.
Quote:
I kinda agree with that... Should make it a Vet reward or something...
|
Originally Posted by Mighty
Back in MY day you had to EARN fitness by street sweeping Perez Park... uphill... both ways!
If it sucked for me, it should suck for everyone else. |
You mean I can have SS and SJ and possibly take recall friends? Or fit in some other not necessary but good powers to have? I'm all up for it.
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
both of you su!
Quote:
Like if you have Aid Other and Aid Self, but couldn't fit in Resuscitate before, now you can. Don't really need more than recharge in it.|
Originally Posted by Horusaurus
You mean I can have SS and SJ and possibly take recall friends? Or fit in some other not necessary but good powers to have? I'm all up for it.
|
I'll probably take Leadership pool powers on the characters that don't have it, even if I can't slot them as much as I'd like. Even unslotted is better than nothing.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
Quote:
This.|
Originally Posted by Mighty
If it sucked for me, it should suck for everyone else. |
For 18 Issues people would literally have killed to get fitness as an inherent. We finely are going to get it and of course the crying begins, but seriously who didn't see that coming?
I hope that through the beta testing there will arise some compromise such as giving out a few extra slots for those 3 extra power that we'll potentially be getting.
In any case, as usual, we'll take what we can get but complain about it anyway.
EDIT** I think it would be an interesting twist to add this new discovery as part of the incarnate system. Complete some epically meaningless task and earn Fitness as inherent, opening up room for 3 new power selections. Complete something else and receive roughly 5 additional slots. I imagine that the number of slots would be base on how the average person slots Health/Stamina.
Space reserved for a super awesome Signature, someday...
I highly doubt we're getting extra slots to go with them and I don't see how that would be a compromise.
We get free stuff, so we should get more free stuff with our free stuff as a compromise? [Insert Xzibit image macro here]
I think it'll be straightforward. Get them as inherent powers, slot them if you want to. If you already take and slot them, you get free powers should you wish it. End of story.
I think almost any build (especially ones minmaxed to any degree) have 1-3 powers which would be nice to have but couldn't be fitted in. Ones that would be nice with just the default slot.
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Quote:
i like it too BUT think of these :|
Originally Posted by Silas
Yeah seriously. Almost all of my builds have a few powers which would be Nice To Have but couldn't fit them in.
Now I can. This is fantastic in my book. People who didn't take Fitness before: You get free powers. People who took Fitness before but didn't slot them: You get free powers. People who took and slotted Fitness: You get free powers. The City Traveller is also a very good point. Free SJ to go with my SS? Don't mind if I do But yeah, all the ******** about this blows my mind. It reminds me of some dude on the forums sig. I forget who it is, but basically saying that this game could print money and people would still complain that they weren't sequential or whatever. Sad but true. I wonder if these people are like that in RL. All their girlfriend decides to go down on them just because and they sit there scowling because it's not full-on sex. Edit: Quality post, Demo. A+, would read again. And man, the more I think about this the more I like it. My SS/FA gets to take Temp Prot and RotP, may even redo his build more and take Acrobatics and do something else with all the slots with -KB IOs. My Cold Corr can take Snowstorm and Aim, my Therm can take Recall Friend, etc. Do want. Oh and Kahlan? If you're reading this, take RoF on your Fire/Cold. I know it won't be slotted beyond the base slot, but would you? For me? Please? |
melee toons without god mode will get phase
blasters,domis etc will have hibernate and phase etc
lame thinking but imagine a regen with hiber and phase
Quote:
Melee characters without god modes can already take Shadowmeld which is far better than Phase.|
Originally Posted by lll Phoenix lll
i like it too BUT think of these :
melee toons without god mode will get phase blasters,domis etc will have hibernate and phase etc lame thinking but imagine a regen with hiber and phase |
Only idiot squishies take Hibernate and Phase because of the no-phase timer.
Regens are silly enough with Shadowmeld and pvp is boned anyway.
The only possible argument about this change (and others of its ilk) I could possibly get behind would be that its indicative of a general dumbing-down or making the game more easy.
So I suppose there is difficulty in terms of knowing and understanding the complexity of the game. Just not in terms of reflexes/how punitive it is, which are the common offenders for difficult games.
Which is silly, since if you're finding the game too easy crank your difficulty up and/or fight some Romans/Arachnos/Longbow/Vanguard/Knives/Malta/Rularuu/any other tough group.
I've seen some people in other threads complaining because this will make the game even easier, which somehow offends their old school elitist self.
Spoiler Alert: this game was never hard. More difficult, certainly. But never that difficult. If you want to crow about how you succeeded at something actually difficult, go play old SNES/arcade games.
You know, the ones designed to beat the crap out of you because the more you died and failed the more money you put into them.
CoH is just not a very difficult game.
Edit: It is true that the game can be said to be complex, since it's a MMO which tend to have a fair amount of mechanical depth. That and it's got 5 years of Stuff Added. So I get that it can be overwhelming for new players since everything has different mechanics and there's like four currencies and sometimes you don't get drops from stuff under your level and sometimes you do and whatttttttt
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Quote:
listen. all the things u said are more suitable for pve. i was talking about pvp. giving a lot more survivability to all ATs makes this game not just easier but there is no point of pvping if u cant kill anything. im not one of those crying babies about how pvp was but i have to say that in the past u needed skill to survive,to evade to kill, now its all procs and powers to keep ya alive. regens with hiber is the perfect example. i really like the idea of fitness pool going inherent but this game's pvp is becoming worse every time. In my opinion these changes would be better suitable for i12. cause then u could 2 shot anything. then yeah all these might work well. now its easier to kill a npc boss than a player
|
Originally Posted by Silas
Melee characters without god modes can already take Shadowmeld which is far better than Phase.
Only idiot squishies take Hibernate and Phase because of the no-phase timer. Regens are silly enough with Shadowmeld and pvp is boned anyway. The only possible argument about this change (and others of its ilk) I could possibly get behind would be that its indicative of a general dumbing-down or making the game more easy. So I suppose there is difficulty in terms of knowing and understanding the complexity of the game. Just not in terms of reflexes/how punitive it is, which are the common offenders for difficult games. Which is silly, since if you're finding the game too easy crank your difficulty up and/or fight some Romans/Arachnos/Longbow/Vanguard/Knives/Malta/Rularuu/any other tough group. I've seen some people in other threads complaining because this will make the game even easier, which somehow offends their old school elitist self. Spoiler Alert: this game was never hard. More difficult, certainly. But never that difficult. If you want to crow about how you succeeded at something actually difficult, go play old SNES/arcade games. You know, the ones designed to beat the crap out of you because the more you died and failed the more money you put into them. CoH is just not a very difficult game. Edit: It is true that the game can be said to be complex, since it's a MMO which tend to have a fair amount of mechanical depth. That and it's got 5 years of Stuff Added. So I get that it can be overwhelming for new players since everything has different mechanics and there's like four currencies and sometimes you don't get drops from stuff under your level and sometimes you do and whatttttttt |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Silas
If you want to crow about how you succeeded at something actually difficult, go play old SNES/arcade games.
|
have played them and got bored cause they were easy lol. and yes i succeeded when this game's pvp was hard. then again in this issue its hard to seperate the good players with the talkin nubs around
Quote:
will talk about zone pvp in this. apparently u forgot DR/HD and that even if u are hibernated unless u are a stalker u will get ganked anyway. so phase after hiber and then run will be more likely what ppl will do
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Originally Posted by Silas
Only idiot squishies take Hibernate and Phase because of the no-phase timer. |
Um, I was talking about pvp in the first place.
Scrappers don't need phase/Hiber in pve. Or pvp, for that matter. Shadowmeld is much better.
You can't go from Hibernate into Phase. That's what the no-phase timer I mentioned does. IIRC the numbers are: you can only phase for a maximum of 30seconds then cannot be phased again for 90 seconds after that (total 2min nophase duration). If you go into phase/Hibernate, you cannot do so again or go into the other until the timer runs out.
Whatever though, this is fairly off-topic and I have a sneaking suspicion that this isn't going to be a particularly productive avenue of discussion with you.
Sorry for the derail StoneJaguar. So uh, how 'bout that Inherent Fitness pool huh?
Edit: Mea culpa on this one, I was totally wrong in how I understood the nophase thing. I checked my facts and you can, as you say, go from Hiber-> Phase as long as its within the initial 30 seconds of phase time.
So sorry about that Phoenix, my bad.
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i have the same oppinion about u. just dont forget that ppl hiber for 15 secs and phase for the rest of them
|
Originally Posted by Silas
Um, I was talking about pvp in the first place.
Scrappers don't need phase/Hiber in pve. Or pvp, for that matter. Shadowmeld is much better. You can't go from Hibernate into Phase. That's what the no-phase timer I mentioned does. IIRC the numbers are: you can only phase for a maximum of 30seconds then cannot be phased again for 90 seconds after that (total 2min nophase duration). If you go into phase/Hibernate, you cannot do so again or go into the other until the timer runs out. Whatever though, this is fairly off-topic and I have a sneaking suspicion that this isn't going to be a particularly productive avenue of discussion with you. Sorry for the derail StoneJaguar. So uh, how 'bout that Inherent Fitness pool huh? |
I like the idea, but it will give me a big headache. A lot of builds are based upon broad assumptions of what's available. With Fitness changing, it's not just a case of respeccing and adding 3 more powers with 1 slot to each. In some cases it means re-thinking whether you want to trade off some old slotting to give more to the new three powers (which has a knock-on effect to IO set choices), or even completely re-think the whole build because with 3 extra powers you can build something entirely different from the ground up.
I guess this gives me a chance to redo my ancillary choices at the same time. I'm now glad I haven't done anything with the new ancillary pools yet otherwise this would be yet another overhaul.
Some of my 20 level 50 alts will be very happy. For example I can finally make room for both fire shields on my two Thermals. My main will LOVE the change - I can now give her Hasten, Recall and Phase Shift to make her even better (Doll 1 has always been about 8 seconds from perma-Dom. Now she'll be there easily. Maybe I'll run a MoLRSF finally!).
For others I'll need to revisit whether I really want to keep my Patron powers, especially the pets (where I still have them). I think both my Kheldians are going to have a stroke from even more powers with no slots to use on them, heh.
I'm going to be tempted to take defence powers on each alt so I can slot more LOTGs. But seriously, I have some alts who I play about 1 day per year for a costume contest. After 4 years, I just don't feel the need anymore to absolutely min/max each alt with purples, PVP IOs or the best possible ancillary pool powers. Everything I have is fully IOed with proper sets and has been since about 6 months after IOs arrived or (for anything I rolled later) 1 month after they were created.
Time to break out another spreadsheet and log in/out on each alt to check their powers, I think... 
The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
Tee Hee!
What this really comes down to is the majority of the population is happy/pleased/enthused/celebrant about this change. I am pleased... and happy. My only gripe is the time it will take to respec each of my toons. I see this as 3 FREE powers. Powers I will get to replace the fitness powers will likely be 1 slot powers anyway. grant invis, recall friend, leadership toggles, aid other, stimulant, maybe even a powerset power if it works with just the 1 slot. And this improves heroes/villains/praetorians across the board. added regen, faster run/fly, faster jump and added +recovery. What makes me laugh is people are actually mad. A freespec is GUARANTEED with issue 19 so noone will have to worry about that. Someone at the PAX panel even made a joke saying we should get 2 freespecs. Everyone laughed and Melissa aka War Witch said that that would be up to some other person. It was NOT shot down as a NO answer. Probably won't happen but we can hope.
All in all, i am glad that they are doing this along with all the other feature additions and tweaks in the upcoming issues. Makes me excited about this game... a game that is now over 6 years old. 6 years that i have played for the most of. Through the terrible ideas such as ED and the awesome ideas such as the invention system. People can quit this game over a few powers if they want. good for them. I will take my free powers in issue 19 and enjoy the game and not get butt hurt over a feature/change that improves ALL characters.
SJ
Yep, that's right. I am sure another player has mentioned this elsewhere, but I see no reason not to have a discussion about in here on champion forums. Also in issue 19 is allowing already existing heroes and villains to goto praetoria. There are other stuff they talked about at the panel today but those two were the highlights. They said issue 19 this fall and issue 20(which is gonna be large in scope) will be coming out early next year but with the disclaimer "when it's ready".
SJ