Masterminds on PUGs, and Other Comedies
By
BenRGamer,
Posted on: 2010-08-31 02:05 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Look at it this way, to a badly played MM you and the rest of the team are valued allies and they're glad you're there.
To a well played MM the rest of the team are just extra pets with unpredictable AI 
That's the problem with bad Masterminds. They're more prone to aggroing extra spawns than any other AT really. And surviving, which is the irritating thing, they don't even die for their sins and thus (hopefully) learn to rein their pets in a tad.
On the plus side you do now get VEATs hero-side too, and they make up for it
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My Fire/Dark corrupter will cast it where ever makes most sense in terms of hitting max number of baddies with it. Which could quite feasibly be the exact same place you decided to drop Sleepie-nighty-snoozey-snooze. Mind you it's going on top of Fearsome Stare and Tar Patch and there's a Fireball and Breath of Fire following it up, so I too would be perplexed if it was just a RoF and no follow-up AOEs to finish the job.
| (P.S. If you are a member of the Church of He Who Casts Rain of Fire In a My Neighbor's Sleep Patch and Follows It Up With Nothing, I must admit I hold some prejudice against your faith. Freedom of religion is sacred to me but your method of worship leaves me perplexed. Perhaps someone can school me in the mysteries of that faith?) |
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woooooooorrrd FB/DM like a MF!
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
That's the problem with bad Masterminds. They're more prone to aggroing extra spawns than any other AT really. And surviving, which is the irritating thing, they don't even die for their sins and thus (hopefully) learn to rein their pets in a tad.
On the plus side you do now get VEATs hero-side too, and they make up for it My Fire/Dark corrupter will cast it where ever makes most sense in terms of hitting max number of baddies with it. Which could quite feasibly be the exact same place you decided to drop Sleepie-nighty-snoozey-snooze. Mind you it's going on top of Fearsome Stare and Tar Patch and there's a Fireball and Breath of Fire following it up, so I too would be perplexed if it was just a RoF and no follow-up AOEs to finish the job. |
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It hasn't been an issue strictly with MMs, but I've noticed a lot more teamwipes in the last few days than I ever saw before. I suspect most of it is due to people playing ATs that they aren't familiar with. This one's getting me too, I'm playing a dominator for the first time, and I'm starting to learn that I need to play more like a blaster and less like a controller. The other thing is that team dynamics are changing. This especially affects people who mostly played heroside before GR came out, since hero team roles are much more defined than those of villains. Now, with all the ATs mixed up, no one is quite sure what their team role is. I expect this to get better over the next few months.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I have nothing to say really, except that Masterminds on Blue-side PUGs are really making my Controllers, Defenders, and Dominators feel useful these past few days. I know well played Masterminds are a powerful AT, but the number of wipes and near-wipes I've experienced on blue side teams due to out of control aggro over the course of this week is hilarious.
Of course Super Stunners are making no small contribution either. Drop 3 or 4 of those on a "steam roller" team in the level 30 range and it becomes a real show. There's also the "first time a group of hero players encounters Longbow" comedy hour that plays regularly on Vigilante tip teams. This is also known as the "disappearing Tanker" trick. While it could be annoying, I'm actually finding it all kind of fun. The difficulty level has definitely shot up for me on the team front, some of it to due to harder missions, and some due to inexperienced teammates on a mission to aggro entire instances at once. Is anyone else finding this happening to them too or am I just lucky? (P.S. If you are a member of the Church of He Who Casts Rain of Fire In a My Neighbor's Sleep Patch and Follows It Up With Nothing, I must admit I hold some prejudice against your faith. Freedom of religion is sacred to me but your method of worship leaves me perplexed. Perhaps someone can school me in the mysteries of that faith?) |
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fixed |
Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree
Look at it this way, to a badly played MM you and the rest of the team are valued allies and they're glad you're there.
To a well played MM the rest of the team are just extra pets with the same unpredictable AI |
http://www.scene-and-heard.com/cov/covsig.jpg
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As a well played MM heroside, I know exactly which role I fill: All of them.|
Originally Posted by firespray
Now, with all the ATs mixed up, no one is quite sure what their team role is. I expect this to get better over the next few months.
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I too have noticed that blueside isn't ready for the high-stakes, fast-paced play that redside has enjoyed for years
This does make me want to check out some heroside pugs to see "I'm invincible" tanks meet up with stacked disruption fields and a liquefy, among all the other goodies Longbow offers.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
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"Wait for Tank to herd please"|
Originally Posted by firespray
Now, with all the ATs mixed up, no one is quite sure what their team role is. I expect this to get better over the next few months.
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"Sorry, my Fort can't hear you because she's too busy pulling with Psi Tornado"
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
...I know well played Masterminds are a powerful AT, but the number of wipes and near-wipes I've experienced on blue side teams due to out of control aggro over the course of this week is hilarious.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
There's also the "first time a group of hero players encounters Longbow" comedy hour that plays regularly on Vigilante tip teams. This is also known as the "disappearing Tanker" trick.
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As a nearly 90% Redside only player, I not only approve of this message but derive perverse joy from it.
Carry on.
I only wish WW had less representatives so Blueside could also enjoy the fun of 2+ MMs all crowding a tiny market outpost, with all of their pets jostling to be directly in your pants, and possibly several frame rate munching auras.
Bonus if it's endlessly roaring demons.
On the flipside, post-GR is the first time I heard the phrase 'lead brute' used villainside. I was dismayed that the Brutes weren't having a carnage race to take the alpha.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
My observations on MM from past 2006ish to Returning lately this year.
It seems the games changed a bit on being a lot more solo friendly. And I find many MM's out and about just street sweeping solo. The common thing I also hear from other MM is that they mostly solo and some even farm AE solo.
This creates the worst team player I think. They may as well be considered a new player when it comes to teams. I am on a lvl 40 villain team last night having to give pointers to the 2 MM.
This is what floored me. I mentioned Heel and Goto are your most important tools. The first thing I see in response "I never use those" /floored
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Yeah, I use Goto constantly solo. The only time I've never used it is on my new Ninjas MM whom I'm developing as a Tankermind. And her pets shouldn't be aggroing because in a team I would probably have them all on Defensive. |
Originally Posted by DogTags
This is what floored me. I mentioned Heel and Goto are your most important tools. The first thing I see in response "I never use those" /floored
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I do admit MMs have the same problem solo that Tankers do. Their defenses are build for teams, so they don't really have to learn how to use them solo. Then you drop them into a PUG, and it becomes a learning experience.
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This is exactly what I'm talking about. In many hero teams, it's common to let the tank head in first to take the alpha or herd. Most villains don't do this, so there's a lot of misunderstanding as to what's going to happen. It's not that either side is wrong, they just have different ways of doing things. It'll take some time for everyone to get used to the new team dynamics. When they do, I expect things will improve significantly.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
"Wait for Tank to herd please"
"Sorry, my Fort can't hear you because she's too busy pulling with Psi Tornado" |
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You clearly haven't played on many decent blueside teams then. Most teams I'm on (even PuGs) steamroll through stuff quite handily. |
Originally Posted by Emberly
I too have noticed that blueside isn't ready for the high-stakes, fast-paced play that redside has enjoyed for years
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I'm not sure where this perception comes from that people who play villainside are better players than those who play mostly heroside. I've run into about the same number of bad players and bad teams on both sides.
I did hear someone complaining in a public channel about Brutes that don't take taunt. I basically responded with the Angel of Ruin story... my Elec/Inv brute got confused once just before Lightning Rod landed. Half the group lost half their HP and my instinctive response was "Do I look like I care who I kill?" Proudest Brute moment ever.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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"Hey Dechs, doesn't the tank usually take the alpha?"|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
"Wait for Tank to herd please"
"Sorry, my Fort can't hear you because she's too busy pulling with Psi Tornado" |
"I am a tank. With lasers!"
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Is it likely they started casting it when the sleep was just cast? I find even with controllers, two can have the same ideas and so the control ends up being overkill.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
(P.S. If you are a member of the Church of He Who Casts Rain of Fire In My Neighbor's Sleep Patch and Follows It Up With Nothing, I must admit I hold some prejudice against your faith. Freedom of religion is sacred to me but your method of worship leaves me perplexed. Perhaps someone can school me in the mysteries of that faith?)
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Heh, a learning experience for the rest of the team, maybe. Or do you believe that MMs run at +0/x1 so they are shocked to see larger spawns |
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
I do admit MMs have the same problem solo that Tankers do. Their defenses are build for teams, so they don't really have to learn how to use them solo. Then you drop them into a PUG, and it becomes a learning experience.
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Well, partially, yes. If you're running at x8 you probably aren't the kind of player that gives PUGs a bad name. |
Originally Posted by Emberly
Heh, a learning experience for the rest of the team, maybe. Or do you believe that MMs run at +0/x1 so they are shocked to see larger spawns
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There's also something to be said of the chaos that results when you aren't the only one aggroing a spawn. It's a lot harder to keep an eye on the activity of your henchmen when you are also monitoring 7 other players drawing their own adds.
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Amen! All those uncontrollable minions that my MM gets when he joins a team make things more interesting. I often think, "So this is what fire control is all about! Bunch of mindless imps aggroing everything in sight!" Just makes it more fun though |
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
There's also something to be said of the chaos that results when you aren't the only one aggroing a spawn. It's a lot harder to keep an eye on the activity of your henchmen when you are also monitoring 7 other players drawing their own adds.
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An MM at level 32+ running anything less isn't doing something right.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Well, partially, yes. If you're running at x8 you probably aren't the kind of player that gives PUGs a bad name.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
There's also something to be said of the chaos that results when you aren't the only one aggroing a spawn. It's a lot harder to keep an eye on the activity of your henchmen when you are also monitoring 7 other players drawing their own adds.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Sing it to the skies: Brutes are not Tankers! If they take Taunt, it's so THEY get the aggro (and Fury), not someone else!
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
I did hear someone complaining in a public channel about Brutes that don't take taunt.
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You mean like they have to deal with in some of the RWZ arcs?|
Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
This does make me want to check out some heroside pugs to see "I'm invincible" tanks meet up with stacked disruption fields and a liquefy, among all the other goodies Longbow offers.
|
This isn't new.
I have nothing to say really, except that Masterminds on Blue-side PUGs are really making my Controllers, Defenders, and Dominators feel useful these past few days. I know well played Masterminds are a powerful AT, but the number of wipes and near-wipes I've experienced on blue side teams due to out of control aggro over the course of this week is hilarious.
Of course Super Stunners are making no small contribution either. Drop 3 or 4 of those on a "steam roller" team in the level 30 range and it becomes a real show.
There's also the "first time a group of hero players encounters Longbow" comedy hour that plays regularly on Vigilante tip teams. This is also known as the "disappearing Tanker" trick.
While it could be annoying, I'm actually finding it all kind of fun. The difficulty level has definitely shot up for me on the team front, some of it to due to harder missions, and some due to inexperienced teammates on a mission to aggro entire instances at once. Is anyone else finding this happening to them too or am I just lucky?
(P.S. If you are a member of the Church of He Who Casts Rain of Fire In My Neighbor's Sleep Patch and Follows It Up With Nothing, I must admit I hold some prejudice against your faith. Freedom of religion is sacred to me but your method of worship leaves me perplexed. Perhaps someone can school me in the mysteries of that faith?)