From my last two failed experiences, we could of killed Rularuu if it wasn't for the fact the other teams weren't so slow to react to the respawns, lazy heals and lack of AoE damage, we managed to keep his regen down, but the respawns end up killing the other teams even though we wiped them out with relative ease. It's like they forgot what to do, even with the AV cheating.
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Ignoring what I want to say to this, as this thread is pretty offtopic and weird already, and just reiterating that having a reward based solely on the average time of a successful run is silly. There's preparation for teams, there's preparation for temps, lots of coordination, herding cats, lots of failed runs and having the reward be less than that of the Eden trial is mind boggling. It's something that the devs have already commented on, and agreed with, and the purpose of this thread is just, now, after several weeks of silence, check up on where this (relatively simple?) change is in the pipes....
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
From my last two failed experiences, we could of killed Rularuu if it wasn't for the fact the other teams weren't so slow to react to the respawns, lazy heals and lack of AoE damage, we managed to keep his regen down, but the respawns end up killing the other teams even though we wiped them out with relative ease. It's like they forgot what to do, even with the AV cheating.
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I'm not opposed to a buff, I was just saying I don't believe prep time should be considered a factor. Once they fix Rularuu's PFF hax, it'll be even easier.
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It's the same badge for heroes and Villains, isn't it? Pain Killer certainly is, I don't seem to be able to find information on the supposed badge you get if you select the IoP reward.|
Originally Posted by Kheldarn
This is really pissing me off, because it's holding me back from my badging. I'm essentially stuck as a Vigilante until we can beat the hell of this *******. Fortunatly, we have at least one attempt a week, sometimes more...
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Anyway, at this point I've given up on the CoP until at least the AV firing through its shield is fixed. Even then, I might wait a bit until people learn a bit more about it and I can at least get a guarantee of being with a group that can coordinate those stupid towers.
EDIT: Doy, it's Power Liberator/Master Thief. No wonder why I couldn't find it on the list of badges added in I18 -- it was added in I7! Anyway, yeah, there should be no reason for you to remain Vigilante until the CoP is fixed for badging purposes.
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I still stand by what I said about the team build as long as the AOE healers are mostly rad/rad (preferably corrs). It may not be easy, but I'm sure it'd help
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Rad's puny heal is just about the weakest in the game, it'll never be able to keep up with the incoming damage, no matter how many you stack. I doubt any "healer" will do you much good without a lot of other support -- many of the AV's attacks are capable of taking anyone except tanks and brutes down to 1HP almost instantly (and two-shotting them a second later).|
Originally Posted by Mattwo7
I still stand by what I said about the team build as long as the AOE healers are mostly rad/rad (preferably corrs). It may not be easy, but I'm sure it'd help
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Rad is a very strong debuff set, and while it has a lot of tasty -tohit, -dmg, -regen, none of that will be able to affect the aspect while its shield is up. It will merrily blast your group back into the stone age. You'll want one or two for the -res so you can drop the AV faster when the shield drops, but dark and sonic are good there also.
Team buffs are the way to go in there. Lots of FF/Cold/Sonic/Thermal. Keep everyone res capped and with as much def as you can, so that you're more likely to survive the cheating AV's attacks. Pray that you don't get the storm one.
The only thing that a fully IO'd out group would be able to do better is pump out more damage to take it down quicker. The defense bonuses and such won't really buy you much, since if you want to have a chance anyway, you'll need to be packing enough buffers to put you well past the effective caps, way beyond what IOs can do.
I worked with a group that took down a Storm Aspect last Sat. on Justice. I don't know how many times they'd attempted it before, but it was my second time with them.
Now, I was not one of the organizers, but I was listening in on the leader chat.
From what I could tell, the strategy came down to a few things....
- Borrowing from Hami strategy, we had a main tank keeping aggro off the groups when we had to leave and take care of the spawns.
- Each team was assigned a cube to "cover" when the respawns came up. That way, we could go directly to the cube we were responsible for and dispatch the spawn in a timely & efficient manner. I think someone was watching the cubes for the "respawn glow". The quicker we got the spawns down, the less time the Aspect would have to regen. Occasionally, this required using a nuke on the spawns.
- We used our nukes in rounds: First round, the first member of each team used their nukes on the Aspect, then we all pulled out our pets (remember, pull pets out after the nukes). Second round, the second team member of each team used their nukes... and so on. Actually, on the third round, we basically hit him with everything we had, and did end up bringing him down.
General commentary on the reward ranged in variations of the same; "Really?... that's ALL?"
Considering the preparation they went through to make sure that everyone had nukes (did a separate "nuke run night"), as well as allowing time for folks to pull salvage together for empowerment buffs (including folks who were NOT a part of their SG), plus the organization of team makeup...
When all was said & done, the battle fought and won, the reward was understandably a bit of a .... how shall I say it... anti-climax.
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Fixed -.- that was a really awkward one too. @.@ Anyway a minor buff does sound WAY too absurd anyway.
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Originally Posted by Impish Kat
When all was said & done, the battle fought and won, the reward was understandably a bit of a .... how shall I say it... anti-climatic.
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You don't need nukes, Shivans or Vanguard Heavies to beat this. All you really need is good coordination (mostly comes down to a leader who knows what to do, as many people on Vent as possible and clear instructions) and lots of buffs/debuffs.
Nukes, Shivans and Heavies will make it easier, sure, but they're not required. If your CoP runs require them to succeed, there's a more serious underlying problem than the design of the trial.
That said, the difference in difficulty between the two Aspects is huge. The Stormy could use toning down and the other one could do with being a little tougher.
As for them attacking while bubbled, I honestly don't see the big deal. Yes, it's unfair I guess, maybe even a bug but so? If you're having difficulties because the Aspect can attack while bubbled, you're gonna have the exact same difficulties when the shield is down.
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I agree, the two AVs should just be equalized somewhat.
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Originally Posted by Silas
You don't need nukes, Shivans or Vanguard Heavies to beat this. All you really need is good coordination (mostly comes down to a leader who knows what to do, as many people on Vent as possible and clear instructions) and lots of buffs/debuffs.
Nukes, Shivans and Heavies will make it easier, sure, but they're not required. If your CoP runs require them to succeed, there's a more serious underlying problem than the design of the trial. That said, the difference in difficulty between the two Aspects is huge. The Stormy could use toning down and the other one could do with being a little tougher. As for them attacking while bubbled, I honestly don't see the big deal. Yes, it's unfair I guess, maybe even a bug but so? If you're having difficulties because the Aspect can attack while bubbled, you're gonna have the exact same difficulties when the shield is down. |
I don't have a problem with the TF being hard to set up and requiring good players, team makeup and coordination, but the rewards should be something that makes players jaws drop - but not in the current 'that's all?!' manner...
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Oh it's considerably more than just insane.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
To think of doing that with a cheating AV and 24 players is just insane.
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Unfortunately the things it is besides insane will merely get censored out by the word filters here.
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well it's either nerf em or give em something a bit more worth it as I'm certain hami-os are
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Originally Posted by Mattwo7
Fixed -.- that was a really awkward one too.
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I did that on purpose....
(think sex)
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CoP allows Mixed Teams? If so, then I'm totally moving on... >.>
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Originally Posted by DarkGob
It's the same badge for heroes and Villains, isn't it? Pain Killer certainly is, I don't seem to be able to find information on the supposed badge you get if you select the IoP reward.
Anyway, at this point I've given up on the CoP until at least the AV firing through its shield is fixed. Even then, I might wait a bit until people learn a bit more about it and I can at least get a guarantee of being with a group that can coordinate those stupid towers. EDIT: Doy, it's Power Liberator/Master Thief. No wonder why I couldn't find it on the list of badges added in I18 -- it was added in I7! Anyway, yeah, there should be no reason for you to remain Vigilante until the CoP is fixed for badging purposes. |
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Heroes and Vigilantes can run it together, as can Rogues and Villains IIRC.
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Originally Posted by Kheldarn
CoP allows Mixed Teams? If so, then I'm totally moving on... >.>
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I've been on runs that can't get the shield down due to being attack by a shielded aspect.
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Originally Posted by Silas
As for them attacking while bubbled, I honestly don't see the big deal. Yes, it's unfair I guess, maybe even a bug but so? If you're having difficulties because the Aspect can attack while bubbled, you're gonna have the exact same difficulties when the shield is down.
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That's my point though. If you can't take the shields down due to people dying or whatever while the Aspect is shielded, they're gonna be wiping when the shields are down anyway. |
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I've been on runs that can't get the shield down due to being attack by a shielded aspect.
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If the teams are wiping because you're getting blown to bits by him while trying to clear the cubes, the teams are going to get blown to bits just the same if you get the shields down and are trying to kill him.
The only objection to the Aspect being able to attack while bubbled that I can get behind is that it's unfair or that it's a bug (if the shield is really meant to give him the Only Affecting Self flag).
But setting it so the Aspect can't attack while bubbled isn't going to somehow fix teams that are wiping while trying to bring his shields down.
I suppose it could be a problem of the damage from the Aspect combined with the spawns you're trying to clear, but if the team survival is that fragile, you're probably still going to have massive wipes when the cube spawns respawn each time and alpha the hell out of everyone.
I just don't buy that the Aspect being able to attack through his bubble is somehow a huge obstacle and changing it would make the CoP more easy and accessible.
What I think is most likely is that people object to it because they think it's unfair. Well, maybe, but uh, tough? It's supposed to be an endgame trial. Until we get AI good enough to challenge coordinated teams of humans, sometimes the AI is going to have to cheat.
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OK, that's what I thought. All of our runs have been Hero/Vig runs. Once I move to Villain, I can no longer participate in those runs. As such, it's holding me back. |
Originally Posted by Silas
Heroes and Vigilantes can run it together, as can Rogues and Villains IIRC.
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Castle told us in the last weeks of beta that Aspect's shield WAS an Only Affecting Self, but at the time they could not reproduce the bug internally. I'll have to assume that they have enough evidence now that it is attacking through the shields, because several players (including myself) have reported it. I've even made a demorecord showing it happening. |
Originally Posted by Silas
The only objection to the Aspect being able to attack while bubbled that I can get behind is that it's unfair or that it's a bug (if the shield is really meant to give him the Only Affecting Self flag).
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Any time a game critter breaks the rules that players have to live by (players can't shoot through personal force fields), the situation needs to be looked at and corrected.
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There should be a lot of runs on the redside as well. In fact it tends to be a bit easier as there are more debuffs with "villain" ATs. You also don't have to be a part of the group to participate, only the team leaders.
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Originally Posted by Kheldarn
OK, that's what I thought. All of our runs have been Hero/Vig runs. Once I move to Villain, I can no longer participate in those runs. As such, it's holding me back.
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*cough* Master Illusionists *cough*|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Any time a game critter breaks the rules that players have to live by (players can't shoot through personal force fields), the situation needs to be looked at and corrected.
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Originally Posted by Silas
That's my point though. If you can't take the shields down due to people dying or whatever while the Aspect is shielded, they're gonna be wiping when the shields are down anyway.
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when the shields are down you can debuff him, hold him, etc. there is more to mitigation thend defense/damage resist. if endgame content is only there for tanks/brutes/scrappers, please let the rest of us in on it.
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Originally Posted by Silas
That's my point though. If you can't take the shields down due to people dying or whatever while the Aspect is shielded, they're gonna be wiping when the shields are down anyway.
If the teams are wiping because you're getting blown to bits by him while trying to clear the cubes, the teams are going to get blown to bits just the same if you get the shields down and are trying to kill him. The only objection to the Aspect being able to attack while bubbled that I can get behind is that it's unfair or that it's a bug (if the shield is really meant to give him the Only Affecting Self flag). But setting it so the Aspect can't attack while bubbled isn't going to somehow fix teams that are wiping while trying to bring his shields down. I suppose it could be a problem of the damage from the Aspect combined with the spawns you're trying to clear, but if the team survival is that fragile, you're probably still going to have massive wipes when the cube spawns respawn each time and alpha the hell out of everyone. I just don't buy that the Aspect being able to attack through his bubble is somehow a huge obstacle and changing it would make the CoP more easy and accessible. What I think is most likely is that people object to it because they think it's unfair. Well, maybe, but uh, tough? It's supposed to be an endgame trial. Until we get AI good enough to challenge coordinated teams of humans, sometimes the AI is going to have to cheat. |
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Given my sig, you think I believe the endgame content is only for Tanks/Brutes/Scrappers?
lol, okay.
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I've had standard TF/SFs take longer to form, doesn't mean the reward merits should be increased.
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