I think you picked the wrong class, then 
Seriously, this is from someone who plays an Empath. Your a Defender, not a blaster. Even then, I still have time to heal and buff and blast stuff in the face with mind bullets. Use keybinds, such as 1, 2 and 3 for your main 3 shields or buffs. In my empaths case I bind Healing Aura to 1, ST Heal to 2 and Absorb Pain to 3. Then simply click on the other buffs when I need them. Problem solved.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Empathy is not a good example of what I'm talking about. The only buff that falls into my suggestion from that powerset is Clear Mind, and I doubt you are buffing everyone with that every fight.
There are 4 ATs in the game with buffing powersets, not just defenders. Currently I just started a demon/thermal MM (finally got around to trying demons). Thermal has 3 of the buffs I'm talking about. Fire Shield has to be up on everyone all the time, including pets. Plasma Shield and Thaw are more situational, but when they are needed there isn't time to do anything else with that character. This isn't my first time with a support character, or even my first time with a thermal MM, but it certainly reminds me of why I stopped playing my last one.
Casting buffs simply should not be a time consuming activity. Buff once at the beginning of a mission, then focus on healing or whatever for the rest of the mission. That's how it should work.
Edit: In case I wasn't clear before. Skills like Recovery/Regen Aura, or Adrenalin Boost really aren't what I'm talking about. Those are (supposed to be) more situational skills. You have to think about when to use them and not waste them.
I've dabbled with buff-heavy sets before. It's never really been that consuming. After all, while the shields are still up, that frees you up to blast stuff. Ok, maybe you refresh them every other fight...but is it really that arduous? Bearing in mind that if the duration was upped there would be ramifications on the other effects. Possibly even cuts in defence/res numbers, etc.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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On a MM in a full team with maybe another MM or two? Yes. It doesn't become "every other fight" it becomes an endless reapplication of buffs blending from one fight to the next with a few emergency heals thrown out in between.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Ok, maybe you refresh them every other fight...but is it really that arduous?
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Bearing in mind that if the duration was upped there would be ramifications on the other effects. Possibly even cuts in defence/res numbers, etc.
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How about a compromise?
"Extend Duration" Enhancements. Usable only in specific targetted buff powers. They do not drop, but must be purchased from DO or SO trainers.
-Rachel-
FF, Sonic, Emp, Cold, etc... I play them all, and have most at significant levels if they aren't 50 already.
Yes, they would nerf them. Longer duration = higher end cost and/or lower values. The reapplication of those buffs is part of the 'balance.'
Apply them where they're actually needed (not everyone needs every buff. Yes, even on a MM. Pets can be replaced. Worry about the players.) If you find the process to not be fun, don't roll something that buffs in that manner.
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I'd be fine with that if they each boosted the duration by +200% (at level 50, maybe +100% at level 10) with a softcap of +500%.|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
How about a compromise?
"Extend Duration" Enhancements. Usable only in specific targetted buff powers. They do not drop, but must be purchased from DO or SO trainers. -Rachel- |
That's more work though. It's easier to just adjust the power durations than to add a bunch of new enhancements.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
FF, Sonic, Emp, Cold, etc... I play them all, and have most at significant levels if they aren't 50 already.
Yes, they would nerf them. Longer duration = higher end cost and/or lower values. The reapplication of those buffs is part of the 'balance.' Apply them where they're actually needed (not everyone needs every buff. Yes, even on a MM. Pets can be replaced. Worry about the players.) If you find the process to not be fun, don't roll something that buffs in that manner. |
Pets are replaceable sure, but recasting pets and upgrading them uses a whole bar of endurance and takes almost as much time as just buffing them.
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If your buffing every pet on the team, thats your problem, not the powers |
Originally Posted by Zaion
On a MM in a full team with maybe another MM or two? Yes. It doesn't become "every other fight" it becomes an endless reapplication of buffs blending from one fight to the next with a few emergency heals thrown out in between.
There's no reason for that. In this case making it easier to apply the buffs would not change the fact that they are always applied, so there would be no need for nerfs to that aspect. If they changed Painbringer to last 30 minutes then yes they'd need to nerf the effects, but I'm not asking for that. These buffs are already up constantly on the whole team, so this suggested change is simply a quality of life one. |
Yes, I sometimes keep an eye on other peoples pets too, but really their stuff is their problem, not mine. YMMV.And their would be every reason to change the powers now. They are what they are now at the cost of them needing re-applying every x ammount of minutes. If they last half an hour, those numbers will change. End of. They are only up 'constantly' at present if the defender/controller/MM/Corr is keeping an eye on them and applying them constantly and diligently. Change that, something else changes too. Simple.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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If an MM loses their pets, they have to stop and bring them back out, then upgrade them, then rest for stamina. To not buff their pets slows the whole team down every time they die. If it's an easy mission you may not need to, if their pets will otherwise drop like flies, you have to.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
If your buffing every pet on the team, thats your problem, not the powers
Yes, I sometimes keep an eye on other peoples pets too, but really their stuff is their problem, not mine. YMMV. |
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
And their would be every reason to change the powers now. They are what they are now at the cost of them needing re-applying every x ammount of minutes. If they last half an hour, those numbers will change. End of. They are only up 'constantly' at present if the defender/controller/MM/Corr is keeping an eye on them and applying them constantly and diligently. Change that, something else changes too. Simple.
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Making this change will not in any way change the effectiveness of any given team, so there is no balance issue to contemplate.
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Your telling this to a level 50 Bots/Traps MM. I repeat; you do not need to buff everyones pets. Your own? Sure, if you like. Everyone elses? No obligation. |
Originally Posted by Zaion
If an MM loses their pets, they have to stop and bring them back out, then upgrade them, then rest for stamina. To not buff their pets slows the whole team down every time they die. If it's an easy mission you may not need to, if their pets will otherwise drop like flies, you have to.
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And I've never found the need to rest after summoning, not even with all 6 pets and upgrades. Mostly because once we're all tooled up I just point and stuff dies. I dont need to attack too often, except to smack stuff in the face with a Nemesis staff
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Like I said, there is no in game cost for these buffs, otherwise I wouldn't suggest a change. There is no end cost, there is no recharge, there is no reason not to apply the buffs to everyone and keep them up. Therefor it's expected that you do just that in every team. You can't say, "I'm not going to buff you guys because I'd rather do something else things." Or you can, but people will think your an ****** and probably kick you off the team. Making this change will not in any way change the effectiveness of any given team, so there is no balance issue to contemplate. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Wow, after 3 MM's to 50, you would think I would have noticed this by now. My pets are just fine as is my END bar. |
Originally Posted by Zaion
If an MM loses their pets, they have to stop and bring them back out, then upgrade them, then rest for stamina. To not buff their pets slows the whole team down every time they die. If it's an easy mission you may not need to, if their pets will otherwise drop like flies, you have to.
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| Like I said, there is no in game cost for these buffs, otherwise I wouldn't suggest a change. There is no end cost, there is no recharge, there is no reason not to apply the buffs to everyone and keep them up. Therefor it's expected that you do just that in every team. You can't say, "I'm not going to buff you guys because I'd rather do something else things." Or you can, but people will think your an ****** and probably kick you off the team. |
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| Making this change will not in any way change the effectiveness of any given team, so there is no balance issue to contemplate. |
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... except, of course, that the current effectiveness is partially based on the duration of the buff. |
Originally Posted by Zaion
Making this change will not in any way change the effectiveness of any given team, so there is no balance issue to contemplate. |
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| Like I said, there is no in game cost for these buffs, otherwise I wouldn't suggest a change. There is no end cost, there is no recharge, |
So there certainly *is* an in game cost. And that's part of using them. As a MM? I don't really have much sympathy - that's what pets are for (I'm saying that having run Bots/FF through all three tiers.) You want in game cost, run an Earth/FF Controller where you're *extremely* active. Even having run that to 50, I don't agree with increasing the duration.
Now, if you want to argue that MM shield costs should be brought in line with the other sets, I'm all for it.
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Traps? Really?|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Your telling this to a level 50 Bots/Traps MM. I repeat; you do not need to buff everyones pets. Your own? Sure, if you like. Everyone elses? No obligation.
And I've never found the need to rest after summoning, not even with all 6 pets and upgrades. Mostly because once we're all tooled up I just point and stuff dies. I dont need to attack too often, except to smack stuff in the face with a Nemesis staff |
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
And, I say again; the reason that they recharge so fast and cost so little end right now is exactly because they dont last ages. You have to keep re-applying them. Ergo, they dont cost much. If you dont have to re-apply them all the time, the cost goes up. Its really that simple, and theres no two ways about it. Its the same way the MM pet buff powers got changed.
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If anything the 2 second recharge exists so you can regain all the endurance you just spent on the buff. 1 second cast and 2 second recharge, with 2 end reducers (because what else are you going to put in it?) and like a said before you will regain endurance faster than you spend it casting the buffs. So no, the cost is not there.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
.... oh really? While the recharge is so minimal as to not be noticed, it is there. And there most certainly is an END cost. (2s/7.8 end each for FF, Sonic, Cold - numbers via mids as a controller. END is higher as a MM - 9.75 for FF bubbles, 9.35 for Thermal shields - by their numbers.)
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4.29 END (with a 45 and 50 End Rdx) is not "not there." And what else to put in? More defense. IO sets. Being able to make UP the cost is not the same as having NO cost. Brawl has no cost (now.) That's also at 50 - the cost is going to be far more noticeable at lower levels. My Bot/FF (staminaless, because outside of casting/bubbling it's just not needed, really) will burn through nearly half his END bar bubbling just the bots. Does he make it back quickly? Yes. Does that mean it doesn't' exist? Not in the least.|
Originally Posted by Zaion
If anything the 2 second recharge exists so you can regain all the endurance you just spent on the buff. 1 second cast and 2 second recharge, with 2 end reducers (because what else are you going to put in it?) and like a said before you will regain endurance faster than you spend it casting the buffs. So no, the cost is not there.
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Your "no cost" has simply SHIFTED the cost, to slots and/or stamina (or other means to make up the END.)
So yes, the cost certainly IS there, and is part of the balance consideration.
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If you're trying to buff 20 different targets on a team, the issue isn't with the buffs themselves, it's how you're using them.
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Originally Posted by Zaion
My concern is with not having to sit there and cycle buffs through 7-20 targets constantly throughout every mission.
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So true. Buff key targets at the right time. If that blaster is fine off to the side with no aggro and dishing out damage, then stopping to put more shields up is worthless. The way the spawn points are, there is ample chances to stop and buff players after the buffs wear off.
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
If you're trying to buff 20 different targets on a team, the issue isn't with the buffs themselves, it's how you're using them.
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I could get behind changing all short recharge buffs to 240 seconds to match the bubbles but that is about it. Would make a kins job much easier, that is for sure.
As others have said about the MM with thermal, you should really only have to worry about buffing either your pets or the team, not both. It all depends on the team. If you are on a team with a bunch of brutes, tanks or scrappers, I would just buff them and let them take all the aggro. On a group with more squishie folk, I would buff my pets and keep provoke going to keep the aggro off of my team so they do not need the shields.
No need to change the game to adapt to your playstyle.
A 20 or 30 minute buff is long enough to allow you to log in as your Defender, buff everyone, and then log back in as a Scrapper. Effectively, the Defender doesn't need to be on the team once its got their blessing, for probably the next two missions.
I've heard that in some games where this was the case, buffers were treated as deadweight and sometimes kicked once they'd done their work, in favour fo another DPS-er.
So the 4 minute buffing cycle ensures that the Defender has to stick around for the team to get their benefit.
Personally, I've never found the 4 minute buffs to be a chore, and I've played Force Fields and Sonic to 50. Kinetics was pushing it, 2 minutes for Speed Boost and 60 seconds for Increase Density, but it was doable, and all part of the frenetic pace of the set.
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Hehe, yep. I have witnessed this in other games too. Door sitters, what a horrible fate.|
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
A 20 or 30 minute buff is long enough to allow you to log in as your Defender, buff everyone, and then log back in as a Scrapper. Effectively, the Defender doesn't need to be on the team once its got their blessing, for probably the next two missions.
I've heard that in some games where this was the case, buffers were treated as deadweight and sometimes kicked once they'd done their work, in favour fo another DPS-er. So the 4 minute buffing cycle ensures that the Defender has to stick around for the team to get their benefit. Personally, I've never found the 4 minute buffs to be a chore, and I've played Force Fields and Sonic to 50. Kinetics was pushing it, 2 minutes for Speed Boost and 60 seconds for Increase Density, but it was doable, and all part of the frenetic pace of the set. |
Having played many of the "buff-centered" powersets, my biggest gripe is with buffs less than 2 minutes.
4 minutes is an eternity, but giving everyone 4 minutes would probably be unfair to FF. Powers like Increase Density or Clear Mind, drive me nuts. If they bumped them all to 4 minutes, I would pay for "daily massages" for the whole dev crew for a month, but even 2 minutes would go a long way to making these powers less of a chore.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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Yes, really. Your saying you need to buff all your pets, all the time, or they'll die.|
Originally Posted by Zaion
Traps? Really?
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Im saying, by dint of having played an MM with NO self/pet buffs or shields, that that theory is hogwash.
Simple.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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To be fair, Traps does have a buff that affects both the MM and the pets: Force Field Generator. It just doesn't require nearly as much casting as others.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Yes, really. Your saying you need to buff all your pets, all the time, or they'll die.
Im saying, by dint of having played an MM with NO self/pet buffs or shields, that that theory is hogwash. Simple. |
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^This (although blaster is a pretty bad example IMO, they do tend to need it). Buff your pets that need it (and resummoning isn't the end of the world if the odd tier 1 drops), ignore any one elses pets and don't bother shielding anyone who doesn't need it, for example Ranged VEATs are probably ok. And, oddly, things like Tanks, Brutes and Scrappers can often be pretty much self-contained and not need your shields at all. My Empathy Controller generally ignores the tank for Buffs as they're usually built well enough in general play without them.
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Originally Posted by PennyPA
So true. Buff key targets at the right time. If that blaster is fine off to the side with no aggro and dishing out damage, then stopping to put more shields up is worthless. The way the spawn points are, there is ample chances to stop and buff players after the buffs wear off.
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The only buff whose duration I would love to see increased is Speed Boost. Because I'm sick of spending half its duration reapplying it to an entire team, all of whom whine at me for it the instant they so much as see the buff icon blinking. It has the same 7.8 end cost and 2 sec recharge time as the buffs in forcefields, sonic, cold or thermal. Yet it only lasts half as long, for no apparent reason. I fail to see how making it last slightly longer would be overpowered.
Oh no, I won't have to run from one end of a mission map to the other rebuffing everyone constantly. (Because people always pick the exact moment it wears off to run in eight different directions.) Wait.... why is that a bad thing, again?
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: STOP!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WAIT ONE SECOND!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WHAT IS A SEAGULL DOING ON MY THRONE!?!?
Any buff that is relatively cheap to cast and has no real recharge, but only lasts 1-4 minutes, needs to be changed to 20-30 minutes or even made into a cheap toggle aura effecting every team member within 100yds.
There is no reason to force a buffing class to spend most of a mission with a full team just standing around reapplying buffs. It is not fun.
Edit: I guess I should also add to the suggestion that said buffs not be nerfed in compensation. As that's what everyone posting below is afraid of.