Most powerful blend for a brute!
So you disagree with everything except the one point you admit is correct and then argue about? Dark Melee has good single target but Fire melee has better unless you're surrounded by Soul Drain fodder. Dark/ gives up AoE damage for utility; utility that isn't needed if you've got a /Kin following you around.
No-one has said that Dark Melee is 'cruddy', just that it is 'not the best' ST damage (which is true without well saturated soul drain on a high recharge build, the damage buff of which would dilute Fulcrum's effectiveness); that it doesn't have an aoe that can attract the attention of an entire spawn on a reasonably short timer; and that when paired with a /Kin the unique features of the set are unnecessary. |
EDIT: And any taunt aura available will help with aggro control, whether it's Death Shroud, Evasion, AAO, RttC or any other taunt aura. It's a matter of good communication between friends so Mr. Fire/Kin doesn't fling Fireball before the brute gent here has a good hold on the enemies.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

So if fire does the most ST damage and has some solid AoEs... At what point does another primary become more effective?
I don't know what to go by with DPS because it seems the information they give you while making a character is pretty far off.
I don't know what to go by with DPS because it seems the information they give you while making a character is pretty far off.
The thing is, the Fire/Kin would be all the AoE this Brute needs. I think survivability comes first for the Brute, especially if, say, the Corruptor goes down, or the Corruptor is debuffed with -ToHit (hence no heals) or various other special circumstances.

Personally I would go with an Ax/WP or SS/WP Brute.
They are seriously powerful one shot and have a nice couple AoE's. Mostly to pull the aggro I would take the rarely used Presence Pool and Provoke and even the nice fear powers. Adding those to the WP aura and Taunt along with your individual attacks you should be able to hold aggro from those fragile Imps.
Here is a little added suggestion:
Many controllers/Corrs/Doms open with a mass immobilization or large AoE attack and don't let the melee get good aggro. The key is to count to 4 or 5 after the Brute/Tank goes in before you try to hold the group. The normal thing I see is as I run in they slap an immob on and draw all the alpha to themselves. If they paused a few seconds they wouldn't draw so much aggro. Think it through you slap an Immob on that not only ticks them off it keeps ticking them off as the DoT hits for the next 10 seconds.
So the main goal is survival for the squishie and the saying I love to use is:
I can't tank stupid. If the squishie is randomly using DoT attacks without using line of sight tricks he/she will get dead quickly. Let's say the controller uses an Immob its fine if they hit only one corner of the group with the rest on of sight because then you only have to take aggro from 2 or 3 in the group so they don't hit the troller.
In a duo the pattern of play is just as important as the critters involved. I always count to 4 on my blasters/controllers before I attack a group - except Plant trollers because Seeds is the rare exception to aggro. I would even highly recommend a Plant/Kin controller as a more powerful partner for a Brute.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

The problem is aggro. Taunt is a very valid solution. Your posts don't hold water, Candlestick, but thanks for demonstrating my earlier point to another poster than you're naming Dark Melee as a crap set. Bad troll is bad.
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And your not even trying to counter my arguments. I AM naming Dark Melee as a crap set when paired with a Fire/Kin corrupter, and when the OP specifically asks for the most powerful blend. Dark is so far away from being optimal in that combination I don't know how you even manage to delude yourself into believing it is.
All the other sets recommended don't require taunt to hold aggro. They have actual real AoE's. If you want to hold Aggro with Dark, you waste a power on taunt.
Dark Melee has good single target damage, but *thats it*. And it's not even the best Single-Target. Fire has the best. And Fire actually has an AoE.
You play Dark for all the little extras it brings, extras that are rendered redundant by a Fire/Kin. Oh wait, I already said this exact post. But then you ignored everything I said. Who's trollin who now?
And your not even trying to counter my arguments. I AM naming Dark Melee as a crap set when paired with a Fire/Kin corrupter, and when the OP specifically asks for the most powerful blend. Dark is so far away from being optimal in that combination I don't know how you even manage to delude yourself into believing it is.
All the other sets recommended don't require taunt to hold aggro. They have actual real AoE's. If you want to hold Aggro with Dark, you waste a power on taunt. Dark Melee has good single target damage, but *thats it*. And it's not even the best Single-Target. Fire has the best. And Fire actually has an AoE. You play Dark for all the little extras it brings, extras that are rendered redundant by a Fire/Kin. Oh wait, I already said this exact post. But then you ignored everything I said. Who's trollin who now? |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

I'll admit that Dark isn't great for AoE aggro unless you're a wizard with Shadow Maul, but isn't that what taunt auras from secondary sets are for? Didn't I mention that already? If you have a good secondary taunt aura, anything else is just bonus if you do your job as a brute right. Factor in APP/PPP's and you get even more AoE aggro options. Did you forget that?
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Specifically the fact that Dark does less damage in single target, and SIGNIFICANTLY less in AoE.
What is the POINT of going Dark? Why should the OP bother? He asked for the absolute best of the best, and you are not giving him that. As far as I can tell, you are just trying to defend your favorite set and troll, rather then actually answer the OP's question.
As for the aggro thing, APP's are laughable as an option. Yeah, let's wait 41 levels before we get a real AoE. Fantastic. As for secondaries, it's going to vary. Sets like SR don't get an aggro aura till 20, Inv not till 26. Pairing those sets up with a primary that has no AoE is just not a smart idea.
The Fire melee/Dark melee argument: Sure, Fire melee does more damage, but dark melee has less CAST TIME meaning firing off more attacks in the same ammount of time.
Here ya go:
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...etype.php?at=9
I'm going out drinking. Enjoy.
The Fire melee/Dark melee argument: Sure, Fire melee does more damage, but dark melee has less CAST TIME meaning firing off more attacks in the same ammount of time.
Here ya go: http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...etype.php?at=9 I'm going out drinking. Enjoy. |
Both of you ignore one thing - The Fire/Kin!
I don't care what Brute you take if the fire/kin keeps opening with a group immob he is going to keep dying.
If you want to get aggro take taunt - its a good control power and since it drops range it can keep those controllers out of the line of fire.
I like how you keep ignoring my arguments.
Specifically the fact that Dark does less damage in single target, and SIGNIFICANTLY less in AoE. What is the POINT of going Dark? Why should the OP bother? He asked for the absolute best of the best, and you are not giving him that. As far as I can tell, you are just trying to defend your favorite set and troll, rather then actually answer the OP's question. As for the aggro thing, APP's are laughable as an option. Yeah, let's wait 41 levels before we get a real AoE. Fantastic. As for secondaries, it's going to vary. Sets like SR don't get an aggro aura till 20, Inv not till 26. Pairing those sets up with a primary that has no AoE is just not a smart idea. |
Both of you ignore one thing - The Fire/Kin!
I don't care what Brute you take if the fire/kin keeps opening with a group immob he is going to keep dying. If you want to get aggro take taunt - its a good control power and since it drops range it can keep those controllers out of the line of fire. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

Both of you ignore one thing - The Fire/Kin!
I don't care what Brute you take if the fire/kin keeps opening with a group immob he is going to keep dying. If you want to get aggro take taunt - its a good control power and since it drops range it can keep those controllers out of the line of fire. |
You do not want Dark Melee to work in tandem with a Fire/Kin.
You want AoE damage, and Dark is without a doubt the absolute worst at dealing AoE damage in any situation where you have an aggro making machine like a Fire/Kin.
Dark Melee is the premiere set for the solo survivalist, but that's not what you're looking for since you have a permanent support partner.
For a Fire/Kin partner my personal recommendations would be FM/SD or SS/SD.
Both will have softcapped defenses, great AoE output, great threat generation, high ST damage + a kin to provide you with endless endurance and a ridiculous amount of +Damage.
For patron, you want Soul or Mu - either will work with either primary, but for SS I prefer Soul for Gloom to shore up the weak ST chain that SS has on it's own.
There are other options, these would be my first choices.
Another nice option for AoE would be Dual Blades coupled with Fire/Will/SR, based on AoE alone. Like any set in the game, get past 20 and you'll be fine.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

He asked for the best, and in my opinion, Dark is the best so long as you know what you're doing, or learn that fast. All you're doing is refusing to believe that people play Dark Melee by plugging your ears and going "NO NO NO YOU'RE WRONG I AM RIGHT LALALALALA." I've put out more damage and held more aggro with my Dark/Dark than any other brute I've played. That's my opinion. OPINION. I'm not stating it as fact. All you're doing now is trying to pin me as a fool and make yourself look like a king. All you've succeeded in doing is looking like the label you place on anyone who disagrees with your oh-so-high-and-mighty opinion: a troll.
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Wow. I rarely come across a post so full of vitriol and hubris. Welcome to ignore.
You do not want Dark Melee to work in tandem with a Fire/Kin.
You want AoE damage, and Dark is without a doubt the absolute worst at dealing AoE damage in any situation where you have an aggro making machine like a Fire/Kin. For a Fire/Kin partner my personal recommendations would be FM/SD or SS/SD. Both have great AoE, great threat generation, high ST damage + a kin to provide you with endless endurance and a ridiculous amount of +Damage. For patron, you want Soul or Mu - either will work with either primary, but for SS I prefer Soul for Gloom to shore up the weak ST chain that SS has on it's own. There are other options, these would be my first choices. |
Dark Melee has good single target damage, but *thats it*. And it's not even the best Single-Target. Fire has the best.
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That's not true. Just like saying DM has better ST damage then fire. There's no one that absolutly beats the other. Depending on the situation (how much recharge and how many fodder for SD) a different one will win.
Good single target damage but that's it? Even if it's not always the best, it's easily the 2nd or 3rd best as long as you're using at least generic IOs. That's far from "just it".
"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX
Over the course of the game, I've played a bunch of brute with kin corrupter duos. I've been both the brute and the corrupter at different times. One unanimous bit is that fire seems like the best corruptor primary overall... as for the brutes, here are some thoughts from previous experiences:
Dark/Shield - Shields was great, but dark was so anemic in a group setting that I eventually had to reroll the character. It did ok in a duo setting, I guess, but even then I felt like I did meager AOE contribution (mostly through the PPP) and half-decent single target contribution compared to the fire/kin. Contributing solely through shield charge and the patron/epic pools seems like a stretch for saying that dark is great in a very AOE-centered game. It's a really nice soloing primary, though.
SS/Fire - Was strong before the buffs last issue, is pretty incredible now. Fiery Embrace now can push you past the double-fulcrum damage cap. Add to that blazing aura and the new burn, and you have something that will make you feel incredibly powerful offensively, if somewhat fragile if you're doing x8 spawns.
SS/WP - I consider willpower too boring when combined with a set like Super Strength. Could work well with a more "busy" primary, though. This brings me to...
Mace/Electric - I was really impressed by mace. At high recharges, you essentially have a continuous and very powerful AOE attack chain from the primary alone. The single target chain is also quite powerful. On top of that, I don't see a lot of people use mace. Electric secondary (and speed boost) helps with mace's endurance issues.
SS/Shields/Fireball - My current main character, and also my favorite character so far, after playing this game off and on from the start.
I still need to try fire melee. It seems to have a lot of potential, though I'd need to get used to losing the huge radius of footstomp. Rage won't be missed, though... I wish they'd replace it with something else. I hate the crash so much that I no longer use the power except in heavy to-hit debuff situations.
SM/DA Brute + Fire/Kin Corrupter = perma stunned mob that melts to RoF + Fireball and the brute will have limitless endurance.
Things will die so fast you don't have to worry about aggro.
Last night I started up a Claws/WP brute, based on the advice of this thread / forum. I'm really happy with it -it even starts pretty well. Players will (naturally) want to keep a store of green and blues in their inspirations, but if you use a red and yellow in conjunction, it feels like nothing can stop you. Anyway, kudos to you guys for helping someone out who's new to the brute scene!
Disclaimer: If you've leveled a Dark Melee Brute to 50, gave him top notch non-purple IO sets, and still believe Dark Melee is cruddy, then I don't know what to tell you other than somehow, somewhere, you did something wrong.
No-one has said that Dark Melee is 'cruddy', just that it is 'not the best' ST damage (which is true without well saturated soul drain on a high recharge build, the damage buff of which would dilute Fulcrum's effectiveness); that it doesn't have an aoe that can attract the attention of an entire spawn on a reasonably short timer; and that when paired with a /Kin the unique features of the set are unnecessary.