When you say "pure defense," do you mean "most survivable" or do you mean "uses the defense mechanic (ie: avoiding blows)"? From the context of your post, I'm guessing you mean the former, right?
Was looking for most survivable. basically can take the most damage and still be standing. Thank you.
Stone tank living in Granite to be cheap build wise.
Invuln with a moderate investment can come close to granite and be more adaptable.
I'm not a tanking expert, I specialize in -hp debuffs.
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Best secondary for pure survival? Dark Melee, hands down. Goes further than any other secondary at helping keep you alive. It has its own self-heal that does damage. It stacks -tohit on enemies. Will benefit every primary that uses it, although Stone benefits less than others because of slow recharge.|
Originally Posted by SlewofScorpions
Hello, I am sure this has been posted before, but I would like to find out. I really appreciate any answers and help with this. I am looking for what people think the best secondary set is for just pure defense for a tanker? Looking to make a superman like tank. Also what primary set would go with this the best?? Would like to make a real Tank! Please help!!! Thank you so much in advance.
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Best primary for pure survival? Stone Armor.
Invulnerability is almost as tough, though, even without Unstoppable, which I have never taken on any of my Invuln tankers. Invulnerability makes a better tank for tanking IMO, with no mobility or -recharge issues. And Invulnerability is capable of tanking the whole game, and does not rely hardly at all on its level 32 power. So while Stone is toughest, especially with SOs, Invuln is better rounded.
Invuln/DM is the way to go for minmaxing a tanker, I think.
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It's also worth noting that a Shield Tanker can give some direct protection to teammates who stand next to him, which is pretty unusual. Other sets provide indirect protection of course, by soaking up aggro and disabling or defeating foes.
Although not as durable as a Granite or Invuln or maybe a Willpower, we're splitting hairs somewhat, and Shield is pretty tough. It might be a good choice if you want to protect one or more friends.
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Best pure defense? Shield, on SO's it's only 3% away from the soft cap to all positions. Minor IO bonuses make this a surprisingly powerful set; durable enough to easily handle 99% of the game's content and the best tanker damage output.
Most survivable? Unquestionably a Stone tanker in Granite + Rooted. It pays for it with mobility, damage and recharge penalties. A Stone tanker even on SO enhancements is more durable than any other set in the game.
Best rounded? Invuln is certainly up there; it's good on just SO enhancements but once you put a moderate amount of IO sets in there it can approach Granite and doesn't have any of the penalties. No negatives to the set and it's a strong tank from the teen levels.
I've played all three of these sets to high levels; Stone and Invuln to 50 and my Shield is my current project at 45. Any of the three will satisfy your thirst for durability.
Now, the question is how patient are you and how willing to wait for that durability? Stone is a pretty squishy tank until level 32 so it's weak in the early game. It's still able to do the job, it just struggles in the early levels particularly on large teams. All this changes instantly once you get Granite though; by the time you reach 33-34 and get Granite slotted you're tough enough to literally survive +10 mobs. I've tried it on SO's and Granite + Rooted + Stone Skin can handle nearly 1 minute of pounding by a group of +10 Nemesis including two bosses before it has to hit Earth's Embrace. (Stone's version of Dull Pain) Don't try this with any other tanker set or you'll be a grease spot on the floor before you can say "oops". Naturally you won't be able to do anything to hurt +10 mobs but you can survive them.
Shield likewise takes time to mature... it's the nature of defense sets that until they get into the 25% defense range they feel naked and they don't feel strong until about 35% defense. Once they hit the 45% soft cap they're godly. Shield's biggest advantage, other than it's durability, is it's damage output. It will easily do more damage than any other tanker primary and it's more than durable enough... once it matures at around level 30. It did start feeling like a tank by 25 or so and got really good around 35.
On the other hand Invuln feels like a tank from around level 8 because at that point it has strong resistance to S/L damage and low level mobs mainly deal that damage type. It has Dull Pain to handle what Temporary Invulnerability and Unyielding can't. By the time other damage types start to appear in any quantity Invuln has started to mature and it's defense is rising so it doesn't have that early feeling of weakness. Add in IO sets and Invuln goes from strong to near-Granite levels of durability so it's very powerful in the end game as well.
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Really? Are you sure about this? Or are you taking into account Phalanx fighting being maxed out? It's been awhile since I played my shield tank and I don't recall being only 3% away from the softcap to all positions. Of course, my memory could be failing.|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Best pure defense? Shield, on SO's it's only 3% away from the soft cap to all positions.
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| Shield's biggest advantage, other than it's durability, is it's damage output. It will easily do more damage than any other tanker primary |
In regards to the OP, everyone here has brought up great points. My two cents however is to go with Inv because first and foremost, you mentioned the superman theme, and while Granite is unquestionably the best on survivability, it completely hides any great costume you may be wearing. I also agree with Heraclea with using /DM as a secondary for best "survivability"; it's secondary effects are really good. BUT imo, you can never go wrong with SuperStrength.
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I gotta throw my opinion in for Dark Armor being the toughest tank out there, if you're willing to spend the influence.
It's a heavy resist set that has enough defense to easily softcap positions through IOs. It has in set control and the best heal in the game. It also won't worry about exotic damage types, since it has toxic and huge psi resist. It also has +perception, endurance drain and recovery debuff protection.
On top of all that, you have to kill it twice to actually kill it.
EDIT: I'd like to add a little caveat that this will be the toughest tank that is still useful. There's no denying that a Stone Armor tank hobbling around in granite with rooted and earth's embrace is tougher than my tank, but all that survivability doesn't mean a damn if you can't actually get to the enemies. Teleport can mitigate this, of course, but I prefer my constant mobility.
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I'll add that a defense-based tank using a secondary with a lot of mitigation can be pretty durable at lower levels of defense. This isn't happy talk, it's quite real. I eventually got around to adding some defense to my Shield/Axe Tanker mostly because I wanted to "complete" the character, but Axe's knockdown was a gigantic help even in large crowds.|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Shield likewise takes time to mature... it's the nature of defense sets that until they get into the 25% defense range they feel naked and they don't feel strong until about 35% defense. Once they hit the 45% soft cap they're godly.
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Originally Posted by Rowdy
Don't get me wrong, Shields does awesome damage, but some of the FA/SS tanks I've been seeing lately, the damage is just nasty.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I gotta throw my opinion in for Dark Armor being the toughest tank out there, if you're willing to spend the influence.
It's a heavy resist set that has enough defense to easily softcap positions through IOs. |
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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May have been a stretch. Better wording would perhaps be: "enough defense to make softcapping possible." Between Cloak of Darkness and Weave, you can get over 16% enhanced. Add Combat Jumping and it works out to almost 20%.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Hey, I like Dark too, but "enough defense to easily softcap" seems to be a stretch. How much defense are we talking about?
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My numbers may be off. It's been a while since I looked at it, but the point is I was able to softcap S/L/E/N defense on my tank without trouble.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Dark Aura's defense close enough to soft cap?
With 3 Level 50 Defense IO's in Cloak of Darkness and Weave, with a single lvl 50 Defense IO in CJ Mids is showing 19% defense to everything. It shows 19.6% if you add in a second IO to CJ.
So yeah, with Cloak of Darkness you at least have a bit of a leg up towards getting softcapped compared to say Fire or Electric.
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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I personally tend to Build Tanks that have a good/great defense and a strong offense. The faster I kill things the less damage I take. And It makes me feel more useful on a team as well.
Using IO Sets Here are some examples of my builds. There are many ways to build these characters so don't take my builds as the best.
-Invuln/EM-(Excluding Unstoppable)
(Res&Def for most can be higher, but wanted moderate protection from Psi)
Resist: S/L 75.7%, Fire/Cold 31.3%, Enrg/NegEnrg 30.7%, Toxic 34.4%, Psi 23.1%
Def: S/L 44.5%, Fire/Cold 49.2%, Enrg/NegEnrg 44.5%, Psionic 18.5%
-Willpower/Energy Melee-(Excluding Strength of Will)
(Numbers might seem low, but it has a minimum of 690% regen, and Energy Melee Can Kill Pretty Fast)
Resist: S/L 71.8%, Fire/Cold/Energy/NegE/Toxic = 11.9%, Psionic 49%
Def: S/L 17.4%, Fire/Cold/Energy/NegE = 32.7%, Psionic = 26.7%
-Shield/SS-(Excluding One With the Shield)
(Optomized for Damage: Double Rage, Shield Charge, Foot Stomp, Melt Armor, Fire Ball)
Resist: S/L 38.6%, Fire/Cold 16.6%, Enrg/NegEnrg/Toxic 15%, Psi 3%
Def: Melee 56%, Ranged 52.7%, AoE 54.9%
My Dark/Mace Tank, and Fire/Dark tank, I haven't gotten to 50 yet. But I picture the Fire/Dark being quite surviveable with 2 heals(recharge of 12 sec for heal of about 700, and 3 sec recharge for heal of about 150) and 2 AoE +End powers and a Self Rez.
And Of course for Any tank that doesn't have a GodMode(as I like to call them) you could always get Eye of the Magus (or the villain equivalent) for those sticky situations.
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Personally:
The Shield Tank is the best if you want to solo-grind or want to feel like you contribute more. Its great because it wipes out almost the entire mob on +2/x7 difficulty by itself. Thus you take less damage as does your team. Though some teammates might feel like they contribute less because of this. It lacks a self heal unless you take the medicine pool, and with high enough def you dont have to worry about its interruption time. Build is End Heavy with fire mastery. My think about Energy Mastery as substitute.
Invulnerable is overall great because of its SelfHeal/+HP, its got in my opinion one of the best mixes of Resist/Def without any drawbacks. And its godmode caps your resists for everything but Psi. Its a little End Heavy, but Stamina can offset that. Energy Mastery helps as well, but Fire or Earth Mastery could be useful. Fire Because of its Res/Def debuff, and AoE damage, Earth because of its AoE sleep, AoE Slow, and AoE Hold (All of which drop the def of targets).
Willpower is good because my regeneration gets to 1190% when surrounded by 10 things. It has a self rez and a God Mode. For its Lower resists they have a Higher def and its lower def they have a higher resist.
In the end, if I wanted something that aimed for Survivability i would choose Shield Defense/DM(-ToHit, Self Heal, Self +End)/with Medicine Pool, or I would Choose Invuln With any Secondary.
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He meant typed damage. It is possible to softcap DA positionally, but it is ungodly expensive, as it requires both +3% def IOs. IF I can ever get the PvP 3% IO, I have a build set up for my DA/DM tank that is softcapped to melee/range/aoe. However, the @42% def to all three postions you can get without that IO isn't too shabby. I also have a build setup for a DA/KM tank that does the same thing. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
It's a heavy resist set that has enough defense to easily softcap positions through IOs. It has in set control and the best heal in the game.
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So yeah, for pure survivability, Stone Armor. SD and Inv are about the easiest after Stone. If you want a bit more of a challenge, I say go with DA. It's a little more expensive and requires more attention, but is more satisfying imo.
Then again, I am still of the opinion that all sets are equally survivable if you actually learn how to use the utility built into them, especially if you pair them with the right secondary.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
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Agreed. Any set can tank any content in the game, either through SOs, IOs, insp, player skill, or any combination thereof.|
Originally Posted by _Deth_
Then again, I am still of the opinion that all sets are equally survivable if you actually learn how to use the utility built into them, especially if you pair them with the right secondary.
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I don't play any other toon but my stone/stone now so of course I'm partial to that set.
i'd take WP...
done right no other tanker def set can survive in pretty much any situation against pretty much any foe.
throw in a few kin combats on your melee attacks and you'll be softcapping your s/l defense, with the right io's you'll be pushing 35% def on every other type of damage... 200+ hp/sec regen in melee, 3000 hp base... nearly unlimited pool of stamina even against sappers... good res...
in general it's a set that will dominate against pretty much anything.. when done right.
When done poorly it's only above average.
The biggest downfall with WP will be agro control.
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Willpower is:|
Originally Posted by Sprite Fire
i'd take WP...
done right no other tanker def set can survive in pretty much any situation against pretty much any foe. . . . The biggest downfall with WP will be agro control. |
- Quite adequately survivable with any sensible build;
- More fun to play than many other tanker primaries, IMO, but
- Though I dearly love the set as a defense set, it's not the best choice for a full team main tanker, and
- If you're not a full team main tanker for difficult endgame content, any of the primaries are quite adequate. You don't need the "best tank for pure defense". So I didn't figure that was what the OP wanted.
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I have to agree with this. |
Originally Posted by Heraclea
Invulnerability is almost as tough, though, even without Unstoppable, which I have never taken on any of my Invuln tankers. Invulnerability makes a better tank for tanking IMO, with no mobility or -recharge issues. And Invulnerability is capable of tanking the whole game, and does not rely hardly at all on its level 32 power. So while Stone is toughest, especially with SOs, Invuln is better rounded.
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even after all these years invulnerability is still my favorite tanker primary. Just not a big fan of changing into a big rock, an Ice cube, or a burning marshmallow. Dark armor just seems too gloomy for my tastes too. which leaves Invulnerability, willpower, and shields. heck I like all 3 but I always find myself gravitating back to Invulnerability. This even though I have never taken unstoppable.
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Depends on what powers are used.|
Originally Posted by Rowdy
Really? Are you sure about this? Or are you taking into account Phalanx fighting being maxed out? It's been awhile since I played my shield tank and I don't recall being only 3% away from the softcap to all positions. Of course, my memory could be failing.
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Deflection + Battle Agility + Phalanx Fighting (zero allies) + CJ + Weave = just over 39% defense with SO's. If you add in Maneuvers, you get almost 43% defense.
However, without any pool powers, SD won't even hit 30% defense.
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Don't forget electric. |
Originally Posted by Golden_Ace
I have to agree with this.
even after all these years invulnerability is still my favorite tanker primary. Just not a big fan of changing into a big rock, an Ice cube, or a burning marshmallow. Dark armor just seems too gloomy for my tastes too. which leaves Invulnerability, willpower, and shields. heck I like all 3 but I always find myself gravitating back to Invulnerability. This even though I have never taken unstoppable. |
I think electric armor on tanks has...a LOT of potential. A lot.
It may eclipse invuln soon. Heck, on anything outside of s/l, it already does, by rather a lot.
The ability to ignore endurance drains is nice, and getting nicer quickly.
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Since your registration date is so late, I'm assuming you're somewhat new to the scene.|
Originally Posted by SlewofScorpions
Hello, I am sure this has been posted before, but I would like to find out. I really appreciate any answers and help with this. I am looking for what people think the best secondary set is for just pure defense for a tanker? Looking to make a superman like tank. Also what primary set would go with this the best?? Would like to make a real Tank! Please help!!! Thank you so much in advance.
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So above all else, welcome!
I don't think much of anything already said was wrong (other than the idea that shields is nearly soft capped out of the box), but the thing I would most echo for your circumstances is Willpower.
Willpower has layered mitigation. That is to say it uses a debuff, health regeneration, defense, and resistance to stay alive. It's very effective out of the box. Once you get into the invention system and have some money, it takes to invention sets quite well also.
The biggest reason though: it's easy. The tier 9 (power you get at 32) "Strength of Will" does not have a crash (where your health and endurance drop) like many of them. It has a self-rez which is just gravy... other than those two powers though, there's nothing you have to think about. Everything else you just turn on and go. It's so easy you may just get bored.
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Strength of Will does have a crash, but it only takes away 60% of your endurance. There is no health drop. It is also a far less impressive boost to your toughness than Unstoppable.
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Originally Posted by Gilia
The tier 9 (power you get at 32) "Strength of Will" does not have a crash (where your health and endurance drop) like many of them.
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<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
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Yeah, I was including Maneuvers in my back of the envelope figures. Pool powers are a part of the build so I think it fair to include them in calculations. I don't generally include Maneuvers though and had forgotten that it was in my theoretical SO only build or I would have mentioned it.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Depends on what powers are used.
Deflection + Battle Agility + Phalanx Fighting (zero allies) + CJ + Weave = just over 39% defense with SO's. If you add in Maneuvers, you get almost 43% defense. However, without any pool powers, SD won't even hit 30% defense. |
Weave is almost a given on a high defense build now so I would automatically include it; any tank looking for a high defense build would in all likelihood have it.
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Most people turn to Invuln/SS to create a Superman, you can softcap to all but Psi eventually and have capped resistance to bullets with tough just don't run around in Blue spandex, a red cape and wear red pants on the outside.
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Thank you everyone very much for all of the responses. Very interesting stuff and a lot to consider. In response to the one comment. I have been away from the game for 4-5 years. Played some near the start of the game and then took a break for quite awhile. I am on a new account and just pretty much started over. Thank you for the welcome though!
I went ahead and went with a Dark melee/ Invuln tank. The only thing that bugs me is no psy resistance. Is there any secondary set or any way to add psy resistance at all?? I also might try a willpower tank in the future as I originally had a kinetic melee/ willpower tank and liked the willpower . The kinetic definitely did not work well though with it. So now I am on the Dark Melee/ Invuln!
Hello, I am sure this has been posted before, but I would like to find out. I really appreciate any answers and help with this. I am looking for what people think the best secondary set is for just pure defense for a tanker? Looking to make a superman like tank. Also what primary set would go with this the best?? Would like to make a real Tank! Please help!!! Thank you so much in advance.