This is the first I've heard of this series. Explain?
I'm at work and can't watch the video at this time. I will when home, but I'm impatient.
Also, quickly before this thread messes around and gets deleted. 
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
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The Game Overthinker is a series on Youtube (and later ScrewAttack, because it won a contest). A guy named Bob talks about the deeper philosophical side of gaming culture, very few deal with specific games (and those that do only do so to illustrate a larger concept). The series is extremely well-done, with Bob being the most intelligent and passionate of all the gaming-related web personalities out there (no offense to Yahtzee or the Nerd, they're both good, just not so highbrow).
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Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
This is the first I've heard of this series. Explain?
I'm at work and can't watch the video at this time. I will when home, but I'm impatient. Also, quickly before this thread messes around and gets deleted. |
[B]The Once and Future Official Minister of Awesome[/B]
[I]And don't you forget it.[/I]
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he raises good points on this one.
That's an interesting view of the previous two generations. I'm inclined to agree. Maybe Sony did get lucky. At least they were at the right time with the right product, twice in a row. The prospect of a future Microsoft vs. Nintendo console war has potential, too. As he said, remember when console wars were fun to watch? That one could be awesome.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
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id like to add to this that as a fan of his as well, thanks largely to momcha, another optional guy to listen to is "extra credit" with Daniel floyd. the game overthiker pointed me to him, and so far his stuff has been equely good..and he updates more than bob(yes, i understand that bob is busy with moviebob too) extra credits did one today about gow 3 that i REALLY wish we could discuss, but lets just say i like it.
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Originally Posted by Manofmanychars
The Game Overthinker is a series on Youtube (and later ScrewAttack, because it won a contest). A guy named Bob talks about the deeper philosophical side of gaming culture, very few deal with specific games (and those that do only do so to illustrate a larger concept). The series is extremely well-done, with Bob being the most intelligent and passionate of all the gaming-related web personalities out there (no offense to Yahtzee or the Nerd, they're both good, just not so highbrow).
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maybe, i think speaking generally, im kind of liking the new world where few titles are fully exclusive. back when i was a frost-hatchling i hated witha passion to have limited spending capacity, having to make decisions on gaming consoles that locked me out of several amazing series because everyone was so tribalisitc, it was part of the draw to eventually become more pc gaming oriented for me, if it was a pc game and my rig was strong enough, boom. |
Originally Posted by McNum
That's an interesting view of the previous two generations. I'm inclined to agree. Maybe Sony did get lucky. At least they were at the right time with the right product, twice in a row. The prospect of a future Microsoft vs. Nintendo console war has potential, too. As he said, remember when console wars were fun to watch? That one could be awesome.
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there still are exclusives, so i still miss a few games, but by and large the high def systems share the majority of their third party games, so while the realities of time and finances still limit my purchases to not having all of the consoles, there is far less opportunity cost associated with making a console decision. im kind of glad that the market got so weird now that companies focus a little less of infighting. for me really the console wars of nintendo vurses sega were a mix of silly young male bravado and rationalization over the fact that you saw a good 20 games on the other system that you wanted, but between school and the low pay rate for mowing lawns and shoveling snow, you weren't gettign one..particularly a neo geo. If i need a good argument, ill do coke and pepsi or breath mints and candy mints.
oh, and since i have my soapbox, you know how everyone goes on about the 60 dollar price tag of games today. i bought "the lion king" for the snes for 72 dollars, and phantasy star 3, when it came out, was either 90 or 100 dollars, cant remember which. just a thought for the younglings.
I've liked Overthinker ever since someone originally pointed him out to me. Some of his best videos were the ones about racism (started in response to Resident Evil 5), his response to the Roger Ebert thing, and I think he did one about girls in gaming too but I'm not sure.
two, sort of, one was focused on bayonetta, but it also focused on standard gender roles and characterizations in relation to her. but yeah, the Ebert one was the only thing i read on the ebert art thing that didnt cause me to lose respect for the writer, he handled that well.
I do like Game Overthinker but one thing has annoyed me about him.
He admits he is a huge Nintendo Fanboy but he'll often criticise games for making mistakes and seems to be that Nintendo can do no wrong no matter what they do and so doesn't provide a balanced opinion. Just put me off him for a while when I noticed it.
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I dunno, did you actually watch this new episode? He doesn't give Nintendo any pity or offer any sugar coating of their really dumb mistakes of the previous two generations.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
I do like Game Overthinker but one thing has annoyed me about him.
He admits he is a huge Nintendo Fanboy but he'll often criticise games for making mistakes and seems to be that Nintendo can do no wrong no matter what they do and so doesn't provide a balanced opinion. Just put me off him for a while when I noticed it. |
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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yeah, it's pretty blatant in this one too.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
I do like Game Overthinker but one thing has annoyed me about him.
He admits he is a huge Nintendo Fanboy but he'll often criticise games for making mistakes and seems to be that Nintendo can do no wrong no matter what they do and so doesn't provide a balanced opinion. Just put me off him for a while when I noticed it. |
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Really? Cause I'm more of a Microsoft Fanboy and I agree with everything he said 100%.
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
yeah, it's pretty blatant in this one too.
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Just because Nintendo is currently better than its competitors does not make those who acknowledge it "fanboys". Nintendo is just making better decisions right now than Sony or Microsoft (although Microsoft is doing okay).
[B]The Once and Future Official Minister of Awesome[/B]
[I]And don't you forget it.[/I]
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You mean like when he called them tyrants, or referred to their treatment of Sony as a "**** move"?
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
yeah, it's pretty blatant in this one too.
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That's rather overshadowed by all the praising he gives them in the rest of the review. Also calling the success of the playstation and playstation 2 as luck is just retarded, they were reasonably priced and powerful consoles for their time. Nintendo sticking with cartridges and Sega's poor timing into market with the dreamcast and saturn doesn't equate luck on Sony's part. |
Originally Posted by Cowman
You mean like when he called them tyrants, or referred to their treatment of Sony as a "**** move"?
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Also take in account that Sony's method for consoles has always been building upon the foundation of the previous console and not building a new one from scratch. This is clearly seen in backwards capability going from PS1 to PS2 and the addition of DVD drive. With the PS3 they took a risk by going with blu-ray format which upped the price tag, which would have been fine if Microsoft hadn't been soaking American game developers for about a year in advance and dropping down budget models of the 360 around the same time. Bob also seems to ignore that the PS3's long-term hardware investment is paying off now in more sales and exceeding Xbox in worldwide YTD sales and only 5.4 mil units behind Xbox in the grand total. Sony is also doing 10.4 mil more in game software sales than Microsoft. It only shows that Bob's perspective is a year and half out of date if he thinks Microsoft is dominating Sony, when in actually they are pretty dang even with PS3 promising to surpass with the current trend.
As for the Wii, Bob seems to ignore the current Wii sales are getting less with each passing year. It's proving to be a very strong short-term investment console, which isn't good for Nintendo in the long-run considering they can't get decent 3rd party software support now and will find more difficulty once Sony and Microsoft release their motion control peripherals. If these peripherals prove successful (one most surely will if not both), then the Wii is looking at a future of even greater loss in yearly sales in both hardware and software, despite their strong lead in sales in 2007. The continue lack of 3rd party titles will most likely accelerate this if people are getting rid of their dusty Wiis in favor of 360 and PS3 motion releases, thus decreasing the sale of new Wiis dramatically.
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Just to point out it is hard to claim that Sony's method is building upon past consoles, especially due to backwards compatibility, since they only one playstation has been fully backwards compatible. Sony's model is more about getting new formats for games out to the public. After all every Sony system has changed how they played games, cd-dvd-bluray-umd-digital download.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
That's rather overshadowed by all the praising he gives them in the rest of the review. Also calling the success of the playstation and playstation 2 as luck is just retarded, they were reasonably priced and powerful consoles for their time. Nintendo sticking with cartridges and Sega's poor timing into market with the dreamcast and saturn doesn't equate luck on Sony's part.
Also take in account that Sony's method for consoles has always been building upon the foundation of the previous console and not building a new one from scratch. This is clearly seen in backwards capability going from PS1 to PS2 and the addition of DVD drive. With the PS3 they took a risk by going with blu-ray format which upped the price tag, which would have been fine if Microsoft hadn't been soaking American game developers for about a year in advance and dropping down budget models of the 360 around the same time. Bob also seems to ignore that the PS3's long-term hardware investment is paying off now in more sales and exceeding Xbox in worldwide YTD sales and only 5.4 mil units behind Xbox in the grand total. Sony is also doing 10.4 mil more in game software sales than Microsoft. It only shows that Bob's perspective is a year and half out of date if he thinks Microsoft is dominating Sony, when in actually they are pretty dang even with PS3 promising to surpass with the current trend. As for the Wii, Bob seems to ignore the current Wii sales are getting less with each passing year. It's proving to be a very strong short-term investment console, which isn't good for Nintendo in the long-run considering they can't get decent 3rd party software support now and will find more difficulty once Sony and Microsoft release their motion control peripherals. If these peripherals prove successful (one most surely will if not both), then the Wii is looking at a future of even greater loss in yearly sales in both hardware and software, despite their strong lead in sales in 2007. The continue lack of 3rd party titles will most likely accelerate this if people are getting rid of their dusty Wiis in favor of 360 and PS3 motion releases, thus decreasing the sale of new Wiis dramatically. |
Also it is hard to say wii sales are going down with each passing year when there has only been one year with a decrease in sales. This year should be a decrease as well, but does not make it a trend, more like a normalization of sales. Similar to the PS2 sales. http://www.vgchartz.com/hw_annual_summary.php
The motion devices for the PS3 and 360 will be a joke this generation. Just more shovel ware for those platforms. Even Nintendo realized that motion gaming is not the key to success years ago.
Dirges
The biggest detriment to Kinect or Move becoming a success is price.
Move's base price for the wand, camera and game is $100, and you will need to buy a navigation controller for another $30. Extra wands for player 2, etc looks to cost $50, plus the $30 for the navigation controller. This is in addition to the $300 to $350 for the PS3 itself (though there appears to be a basic $400 bundle with the move stuff included - but that is really just the cost of the Move and PS3...)
The price of Kinect looks to be $200. That gets you the camera and sports game. Fortunately, you can get a XBOX for less than the PS3, but to be able to do what people want with the system, you're still looking at $250.
So....to take this down to a very basic level, to get motion controls for the HD consoles you must spend $400-450.
Whereas the Wii has this built in from day one and only costs $200 at this time. Which means people pay more than double for motion controls for the PS3 and XBOX.
This also says nothing about the historicly low rates of adoption of add-on peripherals for game systems. Nintendo has been extremely lucky this generation with Wii Fit and and Wii Motion Plus. All three consoles have been lucky with the Rock Band and Guitar Hero games. I think this has more to do with the fact that all these peripherals have come with games that cannot be played without them. It also helps that they are very fun and group friendly.
But as I said, the biggest thing that Move and Kinect have to overcome for sales is their rather high price tags.
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Ah, so you just don't agree with him. Well, that's fine (though I think using 'retarded' is uncalled for). He said himself that it was simply a theory. Something to consider.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Also calling the success of the playstation and playstation 2 as luck is just retarded
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And you have to admit some of his points ARE valid. Playstation DID dominate the industry at the time when their two opponents were at their weakest. Whether or not it's true is a moot point. It's simply something to think on. That's what the Game Overthinker is all about.
My 2 cents (even though I haven't actually watched the video): The only thing lucky about Sony's success was in the timing. Calling the success itself lucky is a bit of a fallacy. They had good games, technology, and marketing: That's everything needed to present a successful product. And, unlike Nintendo, they didn't treat their 3rd party devs like crap.
All in all, Sony's success was* about as lucky as winning a game of Texas Hold'm Poker. Sure, there's some luck involved, but you still need strategy in order to take it all home.
*Talking about the PS1/PS2 era here. PS3 has been a bumpy ride... and while it's not a complete failure, it's hardly the booming money train that the first 2 consoles were.
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That's pretty much what he says. With Nintendo making stupid/bad decisions and Sega on it's last legs, PS1 had minimal competition. While the inability of the X-Box to sell in Japan helped the PS2 become the juggernaut it was.|
Originally Posted by Rock_Crag
My 2 cents (even though I haven't actually watched the video): The only thing lucky about Sony's success was in the timing.
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He also states that he wasn't talking about the quality of the games or anything. Merely the position of the industry during Sony's rise to power.
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Again that's not luck, it's called making the first good CD based console and using a big brand name like Sony to get lots of 3rd party support, something even SEGA had a hard time doing. Microsoft did the same thing to get the Xbox off the ground, and judging by how it was released it probably would have failed if not for the Microsoft name and the money funneled into exclusives like Halo.
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Originally Posted by Cowman
That's pretty much what he says. With Nintendo making stupid/bad decisions and Sega on it's last legs, PS1 had minimal competition. While the inability of the X-Box to sell in Japan helped the PS2 become the juggernaut it was.
He also states that he wasn't talking about the quality of the games or anything. Merely the position of the industry during Sony's rise to power. |
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The theory: Sony got lucky cause they made a good CD based console while Nintendo stuck with cartridges and Sega's system flopped.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Again that's not luck, it's called making the first good CD based console and using a big brand name like Sony to get lots of 3rd party support, something even SEGA had a hard time doing.
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The counterpoint: Sony succeeded cause they made a good CD based console while Nintendo stuck with cartridges and Sega's system flopped.
Hmmmm, which argument to go with....... *thinky face*
A way to rephrase the argument might be:
If Nintendo had not been morons and gone to CDs and not alienated their third-parties etc., and if Sega had not been such general ****-ups, Sony wouldn't have gotten their foot in the door.
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Fixed
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Originally Posted by Manofmanychars
A way to rephrase the argument might be:
If Nintendo had not been morons and gone to CDs and not alienated their third-parties etc., and if Sega had not been such general ****-ups, Sony would have remained a partner of Nintendo and Nintendo fanboys and Sony fanboys would be the same thing. And Sega would still be ****-ups anyway. |
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
It's Here (but the link has been removed for language).
Bob posits that maybe Sony's success up until now has been very much a "for want of a nail" scenario. It raises a very interesting question. What if Sega and Nintendo had been smarter back then?
(Note to mods: No specific games are discussed, only the business decisions and strategies of the console companies.)
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