Your experience with INV and WP sets on Brutes

I am re rolling a concept character that I found a bit lacking for what my concept of him was.
Basically he's supposed to be a tough bloodthirsty (melee range) mercenary, for Star Wars fans out there, he is supposed to be a Mandalorian.
Claws/something
I had made a Claws/SR Scrapper (hey no flames GR JUST came out) but his massive health swings are making me not like him. He doesn't die that often, but he hangs on in with his scaling resistance at max with a handful of HP and that just doesn't feel tough, so he's not fitting the concept I had for him.
So I am making a Brute, Tougher, mebbe a little less damage but also tapping into the whole battle lust thing with the Brutes fury bar.
My first choice of secondary was INV, I've played an invuln tank and was overall impressed with how tough they seemed (except vs PSI)
I have a couple of scrappers that are WP and while my BS/WP feels tough since he gets the defensive bonus of parry, my DM and DB/WPs don't feel as tough.
Its subjective I know, but thats why I'm coming to you.
I'm looking for a secondary that feels TOUGH. No wild health swings. I dont mind if his health gets whittled away, but I want him to feel like he can go wading into combat and isnt going to have to scurry back away with his tail between his legs. Or worse yet go wading in and face plant taking the alpha!
So Brutes, I need your opinions which set feels tougher based on your experiences with them, INV or WP?

Invulnerability. The "defenses" of Willpower make me nervous in battle. Unless I'm on my BS/Regen scrapper I don't like leaning 100% on my health regeneration to keep me alive, regardless of how good it is. I'd much rather charge in and have Invincibility jack my defense into the stratosphere, and keep me safe rather than praying I can outheal what's killing me.

EDIT: Plus Invincibility has a nice +ToHit boost. Sure, you won't have Psi resistance, but picking your battles carefully will help with that.

I am going to say WP has always felt tougher to me than Invuln. Both sets are good, but I think WP is just a better rounded set with its good regen as well as resists and defense. There is a reason is considered to be easy mode.

Hmmm Gruumch, Do you see large spikes in your health bar? That's the thing thats causing me the most disatisfaction with my Claws SR scrapper, he actually gets the job done, just not the way I want him to feel while he's doing it.
I want this char to have as little movement in his health bar as possible, yeah I know PSI is gonna knock me on my Assterisk and toxic is going to be a pain too but against smashing or lethal I will be golden if I'm INV and I think when they bumped up the passives in I13 the other damage types got better resists as well.
The thing im going to hate is getting to lets say 30 and wishing I'd gone with whichever secondary I didn't choose.
I will admit its handy to have the stamina to burn that WP has, but I have a DB/WP scrapper Jedi character whose health can go down pretty quick, the tier 9 makes that more manageble but if its not on, his general feel is less solid than my BS/WP scrapper Jedi.
While IOs will definately help either INV or WP I'm planning just generic IOs for him at the moment.
Let me know.
Thanks

The only hitpoint that matters is the last one, so while having an unmoving green bar might make you "feel" good, its really not that important.


Having said that, in the early games WP will be much easier to play and faster to level. In the late game Invul will be far more durable vs alpha strikes and really hard hitting opponents (excluding psi).

Invul works well vs both groups and single hard targets, WP basically does to, but you are definitely better off when surrounded by a mob of minions while facing off against a tough foe as the regen kick from RttC is significant.

Both are really good sets currently. Personally, I prefer WP as it is more well-balanced and the ease of use in the early game allows me to focus on other things.

For a brute specifically, the extra END from WP can allow you to go go go go and keep your Fury stoked, which you should take into consideration.

Willpower and Invuln are both layered defense type sets, and as such, are both plenty rugged. I'd put Willpower marginally ahead of Invuln in terms of raw survivability (I'm not Arcanaville, don't ask me to quote numbers, this is a purely subjective analysis), but Willpower pays with the worst taunt aura in the game. In terms of what you want, Willpower might not fit perfectly either - the set depends on defense and regeneration for a lot of its survivability, and that means some pretty serious health swings. Invuln's combination of defense and resistance might *FEEL* more like your guy is just shrugging off the enemy's attacks even if in practice he's technically able to endure somewhat less damage before dying.

Either set would be pretty hard to kill, but Invuln sounds like it might match the feel of what you want better.

I think Killer was merely stating that if you have one HP left, you are still up and swinging. So ultimately even if you get huge swings in your health bar, if you are still standing, you ain't dead yet no matter how close to dead you might be, it's whether you actually go down that actually determines if you are squishy or not.
Ultimately if you are still standing you can still try and kill your foe, so defense while it can seem squishy with its huge green bar swings isn't necessarily squishy.
It's a valid point, but after pointing that out to try and stop me from making what might be a hasty descision based on obsessing over my green bar too much he gave his 2 cents on WP and INV.
At least that's how I took it.

I have a /wp brute at 50, and a new praetorian /inv brute at...uh...36?

Around there.

They are both tough. The /wp was MUCH easier to level, thanks to quick recovery. The /inv is, in the 30's still working hard on endurance issues but is already quite a bit tougher feeling than the /wp.

Here's the build, which is a top-end no-holds barred monster. But even on levelling IO's (all 30's) the build works with enough endurance slotted.


Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Razor_Chic_1: Level 50 Natural Brute
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Invulnerability
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Strike -- Mako-Dam%(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(7), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Mako-Acc/Dmg(40)
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- GA-3defTpProc(A), Aegis-ResDam(42), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(43), Aegis-Psi/Status(46)
Level 2: Slash -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(37), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 4: Temp Invulnerability -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(13), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(42)
Level 6: Dull Pain -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(15), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(15), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(42), Numna-Heal/Rchg(43), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 8: Spin -- Oblit-%Dam(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(11), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(11), Oblit-Dmg(13)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(34), Ksmt-ToHit+(48)
Level 14: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal(45), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(45), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(46), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 16: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(17), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(37), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 18: Focus -- Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(23), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Thundr-Acc/Dmg(29)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21)
Level 22: Follow Up -- Mako-Dam%(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Mako-Acc/Dmg(25), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(27), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 24: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 26: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Knock%(A), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(34), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 28: Invincibility -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(31), HO:Cyto(50)
Level 30: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(33), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 32: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(33)
Level 35: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(36), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(39), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Superior Conditioning -- P'Shift-End%(A)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-End%(A), RgnTis-Regen+(45)
Level 47: Taunt -- Mocking-Rchg(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(48), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(48), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(50), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 4: Ninja Run

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I've played both WP and INV on a brute, Invuln to the 30s, and WP all the way to 50. I will definitely say that I enjoy(ed) the ride on a WP brute more than I do Invuln. The +HP is only part of it. Quick Recovery is a huge part of why I like the set so much, as a brute, my blue bar is important. More blue bar equals more hitting things equals more rage equals more things going down quicker. Invuln as a secondary has always felt more squishy to me. And really it's been sort of eclipsed by Electric Armor as the "resist" set on a brute with it only being 10% less S/L resist (and a lot better exotic resists, including psy) with basic 3 SO slotting. Invuln was buffed a few issues back, but it didn't bring it close at least in my opinion, to bridging that gap. If you're going to commit the Inf to IO it out by all means, you can't go wrong with either set, as both will perform well. I just feel WP does things better right out of the box, and Invuln is stuck playing 2nd fiddle in the "resist" set category.

All of that said, I've got a level 50 Claws/SR brute that has been one of my favorite characters throughout the journey to 50. It may not have been an easy one, but once I IOed him out in the 30s, he was pretty much unstoppable against anything that wasn't purple.

Have an INV Brute, but closes WP is a Scrapper, but anyway...

Generally agree with the comments here, but want to be sure to say that while WP starts stronger and offers smoother progression, INV starts lower and slower but can reach a fair distance higher. If you're really focused on building a Tanker-esque Brute and are planning on getting some IOs happening, you'll be happier with INV at 50. Otherwise, WP is a smoother ride.

(Bias: I AM doing the pseudo-Tanker thing with my Brute, going so far as to even take the passives in INV. I kinda regret not going WP, as I happen to like the fire-and-forget, more regen-based nature of it, but on the other hand I really like having a Brute that's even tougher than he looks.)

I got a 50 stone/Invul brute and it can outlast some WP, Stone brutes n tanks. the main thing about WP is the END and nice GOD mode.

while the regen is nice and out beats most AT's if its getting hit too much by big hitters..tht regen wont do nothing. at least with Invul u can soft cap s/l def high melee, mid range and give or take as well with AOE and still have a fair def against others and resis 2.

WP can cap S/L defense, get over 30% E/N/F/C defense (if Brutes had a primary like Kat or BS, you could softcap this as well), get 55%+ S/L resists AND get all that health regen without having that glaring Psi hole that can lead to a Tarantula Queen 3 shotting you.

Granted, Inv will have an easier time getting higher E/N/F/C defense and about 20% higher S/L/E/N/F/C resists and most of all you have better DDR.

As with many things, this is a tradeoff between two very well balanced sets, and if Arachnos wasn't that common and that deadly, I'd definitely say go Inv.

I've played both secondaries, as well as /ELA and /FA, and I greatly prefer WP over INV. Heck, the Claws/WP Brute is the fastest leveling character I rolled. I made it to lvl 34 in 33 hours just soloing and no PLing.

The thing that love and hate about WP is that it's an auto pilot set. You just slot it up and go smash mobs. Sometimes I like that and other times it kind bit kind of boring to me.

One thing I like about both sets is that they reward you for taking on large spawns which I find more exciting in general. I love the chaos of being surrounded and watching mobs fall like blades of grass as I mow them down with Spin.

WP and Invuln are both very tough sets.

Both work well for Brutes on teams.

On SOs - I prefer Willpower, faster recovery and the ability to maintain a faster pace in missions due to Regen.

Top End IO set Builds - Both are excellent, Invuln will shine and excel vs. SM/L enemies (especially the ITF), Willpower becomes a relentless attacking machine but will suffer on the ITF vs. massed -DEF debuffs coupled with heavy spike damage.


My preference is Willpower combined with Darkest Night. QR mans you have the recovery to run DN when needed, and DN means you can face down massed Cims, Arachnos, Lognbow & Malta, etc. with little fear.

On a Brute, facing redside opponents, I have to say WP. I love Invuln, but it's more of a Tanker thing for me and redside does seem to have a bit more exotic damage and psi. WP's QR (preferably with Stamina, IMHO) will also help you keep Fury up by minimizing downtime.

Good thinking Gruumch!
I'm a little tight for slots, but I did just that,
I made a Claws/Inv for my Mandelorian
and
a Battle-axe/WP for my Sith Lord.

Both are still low, but I think you are right about WP, it seems...easier which suits the Dark side Sithlord, Yoda himself said the darkside was easier so that fits

The Mandelorians are all about hard training and fighting discipline so Inv will suit him.

Having taken a brute with Inv to 30 for a first time, I must warn prospective new players that Inv can be somewhat of a drag till 28. You do good versus mobs with smashing and lethal damage, but are quickly eaten up by those who have other damage types prevalent. At 28, however, you get Invincibility and become godlike.

I would also give the nod to Willpower for general content. However, I think when you start investing in the good IO sets, that is when Invuln starts to pull ahead. Sure, it will cost more to IO out an Invuln, but when you do - wow. Still, both are excellent sets and I love both.

I find that my primary is sometimes what encourages my secondary choice. I love Axe, but the END usage on those attacks are brutal. Even with some END reduction on attacks, prolonged fighting with Invuln still leaves me gasping for air. However, same END slotting on a WP with its Quick Recovery, and I never ran out of END.