Dual Pistols: the animation questions and design theories.

After an exchange in private messages, I decided to put these musings out into the open. Recently Castle started a thread asking what powers players would like to see alternate animations for, and almost immediately somebody jumped forward with the alternate animations for Dual Pistols request.

For the new players who are just now looking at the game because of Going Rogue might not understand what the big deal is over the Dual Pistols power-set, or why there is a relatively violent argument over the implementation of the Dual Pistols set. I'll do a quick summarization for the benefit of those new players. I'll also go over power-set design 101 to frame the problem.

Character animations using two pistols at once were first introduced I believe with the Malta. The Malta Gunslingers have around 5 attacks that can be launched from their pistols, but the attacks are not uniquely animated. Or at least they weren't. I didn't exactly go seek out a gun-slinger and let them just fire on me before writing this to check all of their animations. If my memory is correct the Malta had maybe 3 distinct animations for each of their attacks.

I say three because the next implementation of Dual Pistols was the Mastermind Set Thugs. Mastermind sets have a limited number of attacks, so a rig complex set like Dual Pistols is relatively easy to implement. The Mastermind Set brought 3 distinct animations to match each of their Dual Pistols attack.

What I don't know, and cannot find any particular notes on, is whether or not the Malta Gunslinger animations were updated with the Mastermind animations, or if the Mastermind animations were borrowed from the gunslinger animations.

Either way, the animations on these power sets is rather dull and flat, with a basic point, aim, and shoot.

Enter in the Going Rogue Dual Pistols power set for Blasters, Defenders, and Corruptors. Unlike the previous attack limited implementations which featured little to no active animations, the expanded Dual Pistols set is influenced heavily by the likes of animes like Trigun and live action John Woo films.

Immediately players began requesting alternate animations for the expanded dual-pistols set to match such role-playing concepts as "old-time western cowboys," or an "18th Century aristocrats having a flintlock duel." Many of these original... requests... were phrased as demands with many a declaration that the dual-pistols power set "sucked" because it was too fancy and there wasn't an option for something that wasn't as flowery.

Now, I'll go ahead and make this clear. I do have a biased opinion in this matter. My own take is similar to that expressed by Sexy Jay in the first video documentary, Prelude to Going Rogue. In the film Sexy Jay talks about how City of Heroes is not a game where you go and make a lumberjack. City if Heroes is a game where you make a SUPERPOWERED Lumberjack. In the same way, City of Heroes is not a game where you make an "old-time western cowboys," or an "18th Century aristocrats having a flintlock duel." It's a game where you make "Cowboy with More Firepower than Obviously Compensating for Something Man," and "dashing 18th Century aristocrats kicking in doors."

There actually is a larger mechanical issue at hand other than just the theme or concepts of the game itself. This mechanical issue can actually be witnessed in some of the classic power sets. By classic power sets I mean powers that were available when the game launched way back in 2004. Many of the powers shared the same animation riggings, and there wasn't much difference between several powers other than the names. For the most part the currently available weapon powers have largely been separated so that no power within a single power set shares the same animation by default.

There are some power-sets, such as Fire Melee or Ice Melee, where the player can specify that the animation utilize the same basic animation as another power. For example Fire Sword or Greater Firesword can be animated with either the large or small elemental fire swords, and same for the Ice Sword and Greater Ice Sword powers.

The basic design goal, as expressed by the developers, is that all powers have unique visual effects by default. Player's should be able to witness a power's default animation and know exactly what power was cast. In the case of dual pistols, the developers have to fit at least 8 powers into the set with a unique visual associated with each power.

On top of each power having a unique visual identifier, each power has to have a certain level of expected damage or mitigation affect.

On top of each power having to have a certain level of expected damage or mitigation affect the set has to be balanced within itself as the set relates to other power sets.

What this means is that Dual Pistols cannot have a higher total damage output compared to other sets. The total damage output is a combination of not just the actual damage per attack, but damage per activation time, damage per endurance consumption, damage per recharge time, and damage as expected before and after accuracy modifiers. Basically, if Dual Pistols drastically delivers more damage on a regular basis than other power-sets the powers need to be adjusted to deliver less damage. If Dual Pistols drastically delivers less power than other power sets, the powers need to be adjusted to deliver more damage.

One of the key problems with alternate animations for the Dual-Pistols set is maintaining the current animation timings. For many of the power sets where the physical object can be manipulated, such as in the Fire Melee and the Ice Melee sets, the actual animation itself is not changing, just the object used in the animation. The effect is similar to being able to choose a baseball bat or a shovel for the mace melee set. The power itself does not change.

For a set like Dual Pistols where players are requesting new actions, not just new objects, the parameters change.

Yes, it would be possible to implement completely new animations with new timings for the Dual Pistols set. Doing so would be the equivalent of making a completely new power set. Each aspect of the power, from the base damage, to the damage modifier, to the base endurance, to the endurance modifier, to the base accuracy, to the base accuracy modifier, to *insert factor on spreadsheet here* would need to be adjusted to maintain the balance of the set with a new animation set. In addition, each animation change would require the developers also change every other power in the set. So if a player took one power with a western-style point-aim-shoot and another power with the twirl the gun-BLAM animation, the entire set would have to be rebalanced to account for the differences each power would deliver.

The only way the developers could get around the balancing problems with either designing a "new" set from scratch, or by having to rebalance the set on the fly for differently timed animations, is if new Dual Pistols animations used the exact same animation timings. Only by using the exact same animation times would the animations on the powers be directly interchangeable.

This leads to the problem of how many unique animations that would be accurate to the afore-mentioned "old-time western cowboys" and "18th Century aristocrats having a flintlock duel." Well, between the two... maybe two animations? Maybe three? I'm not saying a John Wayne buff or anything, but I've pretty much seen every western he's ever made and I'm pretty confident that they only shot pistols maybe one of two ways. Most of these filmed events rely on the actors themselves to make dodging the incoming bullets, or getting hit by the incoming bullets, the interesting parts of the scene. Old time western shoot-outs where, and are, visually boring from the aspect of pointing a gun and shooting. Same thing with duels to the death. There's not a whole lot of visual animation between holding a gun out as steady as possible and praying it actually hits your target.

This is the crux of the problem of developing new animations for Dual Pistols: The existing power animations are visually distinctive for each power.

As far as I'm aware the developers have never admitted out-loud that they were not able to come up with 8 visually distinctive animations based on the animation styling as used by the Malta and the Masterminds Thugs. The implication from the expanded Dual Pistols set that the developers were not able to come up with visually distinctive animations, hence pursuing the Gun-Fu look that did allow lots of flexibility to design unique visual effects.

Now, I'm not going to say it not possible to implement visually unique and distinctive powers based on the sedated and deliberate point and shoot actions carried out in old westerns or period pictures depicting pistol duels. I am going to say that I highly doubt that such animations could be implemented using the existing timings on the existing Gun-Fu animations.

Hopefully this frames the issue for incoming players and will help explain the background behind the various arguments new players will witness on the forum over this power set.

This is an interesting angle to take on this. I'm personally one of those who would like an alternate set of animations, but I will admit I had not thought about making them all distinct as a potential issue.

That said, I don't think this is necessarily an insurmountable roadblock. Let's look at each power's cast time and animation individually and see what I can come up with for possible alternate animations.

Pistols: animation time 1s. The character raises one arm and snaps off a quick shot with one pistol. No gun-fu here, no alternate animation needed.

Dual Wield: animation time 1.67s. A 360 degree right handed spin into a crouch, firing both pistols held sideways, then spinning them as he stands back up. The alternate animation I would use would be for the character to raise one gun to eye level and fire a shot, then raise the other and fire. Optionally, if that doesn't take up enough time, have him fire off another shot from each pistol after they're both raised.

Empty clips: animation time 2.5s. The character fires off quick volleys of three or four shots from each gun with the pistols held over his head, crossed in front of him, and normally. An easy pick for an alternate animation is to keep the volleys of shots, but just hold the guns normally and slightly change aim between each volley.

Bullet rain: animation time 2.4s. The character fires off three shots from each gun while swinging his arms in broad arcs. This one I'm not sure how you'd make an alternate animation for. No matter what animation plays on the character, the curving bullet trail effects will be the same (I think), and I'm having a hard time coming up with a non gun-fu justification for that.

Suppressive fire: animation time 1.67s. The character turns his right side towards his target, crouches slightly, and snaps off a quick shot with the right pistol while holding it sideways, spinning his guns as he returns to the ready position. Kill the spinning and this animation is fine as-is.

Executioner's shot: 2.57s. Turning side-on to the target, the character raises his right arm above level, spins the pistol, brings it down, and fires off a single aimed shot. Again, kill the spin and this animation works for a non gun-fu character, in the same duration.

Piercing rounds: animation time 2.5s.While spinning to his left, the character throws both guns up into the air for no apparent reason. After completing his spin, he catches the guns and 'punches' the right gun at the target while firing it. For an alternate animation for this I would have the character kneel, bring both pistols up to eye level and aim carefully, then fire off a pair of shots from each gun in a measured 1-2-1-2 and stand back up. Keep the motions deliberate and calm and it can easily fill the allotted time.

Hail of Bullets: animation time ~3.5-4s (doesn't list it in-game for some reason). The character performs three complete 360 spins while firing his guns continuously in a variety of different directions. The thing about this animation is that it's intentionally flashy in the *details*. The spins contain quick crouches, turns, and jumps, the guns are held at strange angles while being fired and are re-aimed quickly. It would actually be relatively straightforward to create an alternate animation that does more or less the same thing (spinning in place while firing in all directions) but lacks all of the overly-fancy elements that put it over the top. Simply make the spins more deliberate with no hopping or jerky crouches, and have him hold his guns in normal outstretched arm positions while firing them. He can still fire in two directions at once and reorient his guns quickly, but make it feel controlled and measured instead of acrobatic and 'faster than the eye can follow'.

Honestly, I think it can be done. I just came up with distinct alternates for all but one attack in an hour or so of thinking. They might not be polished ideas, and of course I'm no animator to implement them, but it ought to be possible.

They don't need to come up with different animations for everything, either. Some of the powers already fit a western type theme for the set. I would imagine even changing some of the powers would make Hail of Bullets and Bullet Rain sit easier with people that feel the whole set is over the top.

Still, Bullet Rain does have options. You could go for trickshooting of various surfaces, or even coins like that one character in Xenosaga. Sure, it's still a little over the top, but it's more of a Western flavor (and this is still a superhero MMO, darnit). It's not like some real life gunslingers, etc., weren't over the top. Annie Oakley's tricks were crazy if you read up about them.

Anyway, back on track, alternate animations are possible for Dual Pistols. Good animators should be able to come up with things if we can off the cuff.

Old-west style trick shooters are seen twirling their pistol(s) all the time. The only ones that are hard to justify on a cowboy are Bullet Rain and Hail of Bullets. You can easily just skip those two attacks if they're that bad for your concept.

Well, the only thing I mind it Rain of Bullets, since that was stolen right out of Wanted, the DUMBEST part of wanted, and like the poster above me, I skip it on anyone not my blaster.
But another problem with it I noticed when playing said blaster, was that despite Rain of Bullets showing the shots curving around... I still needed standard line of sight to use the attack on someone when they were just on the other side of a pillar.

I'll admit, the latter quip isn't so bad namely just because I'm not sure how hard coded line of sight requirements are for honest to god attacks, and without line of sight, it could get VERY ridiculous and VERY broken, like shooting through nearly eighty feet of wall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

I have to admit that for one of my recent concepts I had a character who was primarily a force fielder (her main powers related to that), and while she used pistols, she wasn't particularly great with them. Her main heroic traits were being able to shield and protect people.

Unfortunately the pistols set looks so fabulous that it just didn't suit her theme, so instead I opted to make her use an assault rifle as the animations were a bit more grounded and it fitted her much better.

Although pistols has only just been released, I think there are other candidates much deserving of attention. Plus the pistols set does look awesome even if it isn't everyones cup of tea.

I love the current animations, but I was the first to suggest alternates in Castles thread. My main reason was to be somewhat diplomatic, as it seems like a worthy cause and figured I could phrase the suggestion without necessarily getting upset.

There's so many things that are easily role-played around, and I personally don't see any issue with a cowboy type superhero shooting the way depicted with Dual Guns. Peacemoon's particular concept problem is the only reason I see this argument having any real merit, but that's merit nonetheless. Just to be my own devil's advocate, I will say there are other causes perhaps more worthy of the animators' time. I want to see Power Pool customization first, but Castle didn't state that as part of their plan (likely because it falls in more hands than the animation department). Even so, I couldn't help but suggest an alternate for Jump Kick.

I think those fighting for ultra-realistic shooting are ignoring the fact that using two pistols in an ultra-realistic setting (real life) is completely impractical and dangerous.

The DP/ set fits well with me and my Corruptor too. Hail of Bullets looks awesome with a bunch of Scourges flying up in the air with Incind ammo on.

If any new animations are to be put to it, it should be for more options for the individual, not for trying to "fix" it. Good post!

Saist... seriously?

I think, again, you are looking at this issue too narrowly, and letting your personal bias only allow you to see points that strengthen your view.

1) The Developers are very capable, and are perfectly able (in my appraisal) to create animations that are unique and at the same time less "flashy."

2) There is no need to make a new set, when all one has to do is alter the animations. (Yes, this would have the detriment of making the new animations seem to take awhile, in some cases.)

3) Each power DOES NOT need to have a unique alternate animation. You said yourself that the Devs want the default animations to be unique... not necessarily the custom ones.

4) Adjusting damage has absolutely NO place in this discussion. It is a foregone conclusion that animation times cannot and will not be changed via customization. There is precedent to support this, not to mention a direct statement from Castle in the thread you linked to.

5) You mention powers like Fire Sword Circle, but neglect to mention sets like Martial Arts and Super Strength that basically were given COMPLETELY new animations. This would go to belie your point about changing cosmetic items, but being unable to change the physical animation due to time constraints of those animations.

6) Stating that because the Developers made a gun-fu set is proof (or implies) them not being able to come up with 8 more "standard" shooting animations is ridiculous! It would seem to me, that they simply didn't WANT to. After all, if your job is an artistic one, like an animator's is, than why would you WANT to make "boring" animations when you could make it unique and visually distinct from anything else in the game?

Yuppers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed I'm all for alternate animations for dual pistols and every other set in the game. More variety is good.

Agreed!

devs make basic animations, get flamed for animations being generic.
devs make busy, colorful animations, get flamed for animations not fitting some concepts.

it's a tough gig!