Shadowrun Anniversary Edition
By
Agonus,
Posted on: 2010-08-09 13:20 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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They'd have to do a deal with Microsoft. Microsoft owns all the electronic rights.|
Originally Posted by Snowlily
OMG - I just had the Coolest IDEA. EVER.
*clears throat* So who thinks Paragon Studio's next project should be Shadowrun Online? Eh? Eh? *Groucho-Eyebrows* |
The big problem is, Microsoft wants to be guaranteed WOW numbers.
(See: Ain't NEVER gonna happen)
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I'm probably biased against hackers as I have a LOT more play time under the old editions, where the game literally stopped for the rest of the players when it came time for a hacker to "do his thing".|
Originally Posted by Snowlily
IMO, Hacker is the only 'not-optional' member of a team. So by all means, play a Hacker
 . Even if you are new. Dive in with both feet. |
That said, even under 4E, which I've played a couple dozen sessions of, I've had the opposite experience - in all that play time, the amount of time I've seen "hacker stuff" done was maybe 5% of the overall play time. Many sessions there was no hacker at the table at all and it really didn't affect anything.
At DragonCon, though, most of the Shadowrun events scheduled are Shadowrun Missions games. Those at least are written in theory so any random combo of character archetypes can show up and be successful.
Shadowrun Missions has it's own modifications to the standard rules.
There's also a message board to discuss that specific campaign at Dumpshock. Which... appears to be down at the moment.
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
I miss the punk...
Never played Shadowrun tabletop (Only on Genesis) but I did play a lot Cyberpunk 2020 in high school. I miss those games, not the combat so much, but the stylization.
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There are no Deckers in 4th editiion. Its now Hackers, and they are a heck of a lot more useful with the PANs and Wireless world.
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Originally Posted by NinjaPirate
Just a warning - decker is about the last type of character I would recommend to a new player.
The current Matrix and software rules are a mess. And worse, they're generally not used a heck of a lot for one main reason: When it's not a "we need a Decker" situation, the Decker ends up feeling a bit gimped compared to everyone else. When it's the Decker's time to shine, everyone else at the table might as well go get a snack or something while the GM and the Decker's player roll dice at each other. It's not as bad as it was in previous editions, but most games I see tend to avoid putting in extensive Decker-focused content. If anything, I recommend having Decking ability as a side focus rather than a main focus. Like a street samurai/decker. -np |
Defcon 0 - (D4 lvl 50),DJ Shecky Cape Radio
@Shecky
Twitter: @DJ_Shecky, @siliconshecky, @thecaperadio
When you air your dirty laundry out on a clothesline above the street, everyone is allowed to snicker at the skid marks in your underoos. - Lemur_Lad
Cool. I've been playing in a Shadowrun campaign for the better part of the last year or so. Got a little bored with my speed based dual pistols guy, so I started switching him over to a sword-wielding fighter. But his essence is down to .3 after his last operation to get a cybernetic right arm, and he's pretty much broke, so it'll be a while before I can finish the transition. >.>
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
*shuffles games/hats*
Hi, yes, please come out to the Character Workshops at Dragon*Con, we will have all sorts of dice and character sheets and people who know what the heck they are doing to explain the nice, neat, everyone's tests work the same now Shadowrun 4th rules or just cert your stuff for Missions games 
Everything Shadowrun (and hopefully Eclipse Phase) will be run out of Hilton 301, no need for general muster, we'll be there all day everyday!
Kai (aka <insert license holder name here> Shadowrun Dragon*Con Coordinator ;7)
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That's one of the silly things that always annoyed me about 4th ed Shadowrun... any moron stupid enough to be using a hackable wireless connection for a smartlink deserves whatever he gets. Hacking comlinks and enemy remote drones? Sure. But hacking smartlinks, PDAs, or cyberware in combat? Anyone with half a brain is using wired connections for combat-oriented gear and has the wireless receiver in his PDA turned off on during combat situations. There's a reason they make palm induction pads for smartlinks...|
Originally Posted by Castle
Your Decker should be hacking the enemies Smartlinks or tossing Drones at them during the action part of a run.
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(At least they don't go as far as Ghost in the Shell were even cybereyes and headware are wireless enabled.
)
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
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Somewhere... deep in your mind... you want to make a Shadowrun MMO. (/endhypnosis)
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Originally Posted by Castle
Your Decker should be hacking the enemies Smartlinks or tossing Drones at them during the action part of a run. In that regard, 4th and 4a are considerably more friendly than previous editions. You're right though, in that during the legwork portion the parts of the team not involved in such can get bored...but then, that's the case in any game where some characters specialize in non-combat and others specialize in combat.
A good GM can keep things going and/or integrate even the most hardcore min/maxed sam into the legwork mix. |
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.
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Yeah. Most of the SR4 players I know do this. Either shuts off all his or her character's wireless on their gear or has it physically disabled/removed. They then have a SEPARATE commlink/tacnet setup not directly connected to their other gear, and sometimes have backups for even those so they can switch out and toss compromised systems.|
Originally Posted by StrykerX
That's one of the silly things that always annoyed me about 4th ed Shadowrun... any moron stupid enough to be using a hackable wireless connection for a smartlink deserves whatever he gets. Hacking comlinks and enemy remote drones? Sure. But hacking smartlinks, PDAs, or cyberware in combat? Anyone with half a brain is using wired connections for combat-oriented gear and has the wireless receiver in his PDA turned off on during combat situations. There's a reason they make palm induction pads for smartlinks...
(At least they don't go as far as Ghost in the Shell were even cybereyes and headware are wireless enabled. ) |
So while I can understand mooks and guards not being wireless-paranoid, there's no reason higher level opposition shouldn't have taken similar precautions.
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
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Okay, anything is hackable (ANY THING) given time, motivation, skill, the right software and enough processing power.|
Originally Posted by StrykerX
any moron stupid enough to be using a hackable wireless connection
|
Granted, the window of opportunity for a palm-mounted smartlink is vanishingly small, but that's besides the point.
Security in computing isn't about "keeping people out". Anyone who tells you that IS SELLING YOU SOMETHING.
Security in computing is about being just enough trouble that:
- The would-be cracker gives up and moves on to greener (easier) pastures.
- They take so long that they eventually get noticed (User A.Dum Schmuck has been banging away now for 73 and a half straight hours).
- They do something spectacular that IMMEDIATELY gets them noticed. (What the? Someone just bruted their way into node C! Pull the plug! Pull it! PULLIT!)
Not that I'd know from personal experience or anything....
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
That's just it. We ARE talking complete and utter disconnection.
There's ZERO need for your watch, cybereyes, belt buckle, firearm, etc. to HAVE a wireless connection. If it's ON YOUR BODY, why do you need wireless at all to have a piece of gear talk to another piece of gear ten inches away from it?
Smart runners will have ONE wireless connection, their commlink. And not hook it up to anything else they own unless it's absolutely necessary. And be prepared to break it and chuck it in the trash at a moment's notice.
The SR4 setting would have you believe that EVERY DAMN THING in the WORLD is wireless-enabled. It's just silly. At least for the people who make a living engaging in highly illegal activities, or the people that hunt/oppose/fight those people.
The way the SR4 encryption rules work, also, mean that except for the super-ultra-secure black computer systems run by the mega-corps in their super sensitive projects, 99% of the world's networks can be cracked in at most a matter of hours by even the most amateur script kiddy.
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
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A hardwired link with no wireless input is not hackable at range by anyone. That's why when I make a Shadowrun character who uses smartlinks I go with the palm implants that inductively connect to the gun via a sensor in the grip... those can only be hacked by someone who is within arm's reach, in which case the gun is of limited use anyway. |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Okay, anything is hackable (ANY THING) given time, motivation, skill, the right software and enough processing power.
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Wireless = bad in combat, unless you know beyond a shadow of a doubt your encryption is too strong for any conceivable hardware to break in the length of time you expect a run to last. And even then you have to worry about backdoors and unknown weaknesses in the encryption that can be exploited, so in general wireless = bad in combat. Sometimes it can't be helped, and then it's a game of who has the better gear, but if I just need to get a signal to and from something at arm's length I'm using a shielded wired connection, not Bluetooth.
But since all too many shadowrunners and corp goons don't seem to grasp that fact, especially in 4th edition, I guess the decker should go ahead and try to hack the enemy gear. If I make a 4th ed decker he'll have a special software agent just for that purpose named Darwin.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
Because there are advantages to wireless, like target sharing, remote drone control, tactical computers...besides, most attacks aren't to the gear anyways, its into team comms full of chatter and data.
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It's nice that you're so certain about this. But you're wrong. At least outside the context of the game. I'll have a talk with Jason Hardy about the in-game context as well.|
Originally Posted by StrykerX
A hardwired link with no wireless input is not hackable at range by anyone.
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Take a look for terms "Van Eck Phreaking" and "Tempest".
It's entirely possible to remotely monitor, and with more powerful EM equipment, interfere with the operations of such devices.
That's why when I make a Shadowrun character who uses smartlinks I go with the palm implants that inductively connect to the gun via a sensor in the grip... those can only be hacked by someone who is within arm's reach, in which case the gun is of limited use anyway.
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| Wireless = bad in combat, unless you know beyond a shadow of a doubt your encryption is too strong for any conceivable hardware to break in the length of time you expect a run to last. |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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I'll just leave this here for you to contemplate...|
Originally Posted by NinjaPirate
That's just it. We ARE talking complete and utter disconnection.
There's ZERO need for your watch, cybereyes, belt buckle, firearm, etc. to HAVE a wireless connection. If it's ON YOUR BODY, why do you need wireless at all to have a piece of gear talk to another piece of gear ten inches away from it? Smart runners will have ONE wireless connection, their commlink. And not hook it up to anything else they own unless it's absolutely necessary. And be prepared to break it and chuck it in the trash at a moment's notice. The SR4 setting would have you believe that EVERY DAMN THING in the WORLD is wireless-enabled. It's just silly. At least for the people who make a living engaging in highly illegal activities, or the people that hunt/oppose/fight those people. The way the SR4 encryption rules work, also, mean that except for the super-ultra-secure black computer systems run by the mega-corps in their super sensitive projects, 99% of the world's networks can be cracked in at most a matter of hours by even the most amateur script kiddy. -np |
http://arstechnica.com/security/news...re-sensors.ars
"Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it."
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Except in Shadowrun, almost all electronics use optical circuitry. The only electrical-based components are the power supplies, and those are generally too robust and shielded to be interfered with via mere electromagnetic tweaking.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
It's nice that you're so certain about this. But you're wrong. At least outside the context of the game. I'll have a talk with Jason Hardy about the in-game context as well.
Take a look for terms "Van Eck Phreaking" and "Tempest". It's entirely possible to remotely monitor, and with more powerful EM equipment, interfere with the operations of such devices. |
At the very most, with a high powered EMP burst, you might shut down the power supply. But that's not the same as seizing control of said supply.
The Shadowrun main book ITSELF comments that is it possible (but not common) to acquire equipment with no wireless capacity. This requires anyone who wants to hack the offline device to physically get their hands on it.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
That's why when I make a Shadowrun character who uses smartlinks I go with the palm implants that inductively connect to the gun via a sensor in the grip... those can only be hacked by someone who is within arm's reach, in which case the gun is of limited use anyway.
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And good luck with getting any of the SR core devs to comment. People, including employees/freelancers working for Catalyst, have been trying to get to get them to update the Shadowrun errata and FAQs for YEARS now with limited success. Even basic questions have gone unanswered since the game was released despite repeated requests for clarification, like the Edge rules on re-rolling failed tests being unclear. (The way the rule is worded, it could mean EITHER that you can re-roll failed individual dice in a test by spending an Edge point, OR that you can re-roll an entire TEST only if ALL the dice failed)
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
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Yeah, I saw that before, but how does this apply to the guy that has no wireless at all?|
Originally Posted by Fyndhal
I'll just leave this here for you to contemplate...
http://arstechnica.com/security/news...re-sensors.ars |
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
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Well, when I said "hacking" I meant taking control and manipulationg, not just monitoring data. Reading monitors through walls is one thing... they give off a fair amount of EM radiation, especially CRTs (after all, that's their job). Reading data in a network cable at range (as opposed to clipping an inductive pickup onto it) would be a lot harder, and actually manipulating the data at range well enough to take operational control of the network? I don't see that happening. Just dumping a ton of EM radiation and jamming it? Sure. You can even do that with optical systems, since the endpoints have to change the light patterns into electrical signals and enough interference could jam those sensors. But at least then everyone's equal, since creating that strong a jamming signal is probably going to kill any smartlinks, comm gear, and combat computers on both sides of the fight unless it's so highly directional that you could just move to avoid the jamming beam. Actually screwing with enemy targeting data remotely ("Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex" style) would be, if not impossible, at least wildly improbable with a hardwired system. With the standard "everything's wireless" 4th ed gear a good decker could actually pull some of the goofy stunts that the Major does in that show, like overriding someone's cybereyes to make someone invisible to them or remotely triggering someone else's weapon.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
It's nice that you're so certain about this. But you're wrong. At least outside the context of the game. I'll have a talk with Jason Hardy about the in-game context as well.
Take a look for terms "Van Eck Phreaking" and "Tempest". It's entirely possible to remotely monitor, and with more powerful EM equipment, interfere with the operations of such devices. |
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
Even if you have a separate Comlink for 'public coms' and a hidden one handling your PAN and slaved devices, it's just a higher threshold electronic warfare + scan test to find the hidden comlink. (5 or 8 iirc). Once you find the hidden com and bust down it's firewall, it's an easy test to simply orphan all the devices slaved to it and create a huge hassle. Sure he may not get your palm-inducted smartlinks; but he'll get every other electronic device on you: sunglasses (if you aren't using cybereyes) or contacts, ear buds, sub vocal mi, etc - not everyone has everything headwared - and not everything has the option for skin induction. And even if it does, it's still slaved to a comlink in order to work with everything else - all the hacker needs to do is find that comlink. Having a hidden one just slows them down, not stops them.
According to the book it's a Hardware test just to turn a Comlink off, as most have no obvious 'off' switch.
Gotta remember, most devices aren't designed for Shadowruners. their made by Megacorps who want your (their) stuff to be on display for everyone to see.
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Actually you caught sloppy editing on my part. That was part of his post I hadn't cleaned up properly.|
Originally Posted by NinjaPirate
Uh, you just got done telling a guy that was doing the EXACT SAME THING that he can still be wirelessly hacked.
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| And good luck with getting any of the SR core devs to comment. |
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| People, including employees/freelancers working for Catalyst, have been trying to get to get them to update the Shadowrun errata and FAQs for YEARS now with limited success. |
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Even basic questions have gone unanswered since the game was released despite repeated requests for clarification, like the Edge rules on re-rolling failed tests being unclear. (The way the rule is worded, it could mean EITHER that you can re-roll failed individual dice in a test by spending an Edge point, OR that you can re-roll an entire TEST only if ALL the dice failed) -np |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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So techy characters can do real-time combat hacking in SR4? Now I'm kind of annoyed, since some of the guys who did SR4 went on to write Eclipse Phase, where that sort of thing should be pretty common, but is pretty much not even feasible. Though that's one of my sole gripes about Eclipse Phase, so it's still doing pretty darn good so far.
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Originally Posted by Castle
Your Decker should be hacking the enemies Smartlinks or tossing Drones at them during the action part of a run. In that regard, 4th and 4a are considerably more friendly than previous editions.
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Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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Monitors are essentially data output devices. And with appropriate application, you CAN manipulate the data displayed, not just monitor it. But that's like putting white-out on the screen since and writing on it since it doesn't actually affect the data being worked on.|
Originally Posted by StrykerX
Well, when I said "hacking" I meant taking control and manipulationg, not just monitoring data.
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Things like cybereyes, smartlinks, etc, are input/output devices. So your options are somewhat broader.
Again, I'm not saying any of this is easy, or fast. I'm simply saying that, with the right tools, it can be done.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Yes, SR4 has Augmented Reality, its essentially a matrix overlay onto the real world, so little popups produce prices at something you are looking at in a store, or when going to a club the bouncer can see whose on the list just by looking at them, which means hacking generally falls into the same times and initiative as combat and the hacker is not the guy passed out across town
Official errata is hard to find, but you can get most your questions answered on Dumpshock where a lot of unofficial statements of clarification have been made over time.
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And the thing that separates professional shadowrunners from the run of the mill crooks is the fact that a real shadowrunner isn't going to use unmodified off the shelf crap. |
Originally Posted by Snowlily
Gotta remember, most devices aren't designed for Shadowruners.
their made by Megacorps who want your (their) stuff to be on display for everyone to see. |
It's kind of like driving a car with OnStar and a GPS tracker to a bank robbery... the run of the mill crooks might well do so but the real pros either disable the GPS or spoof the logs so it shows the car across town at the time of the robbery.I would assume a shadowrunner would only have wireless on things like drones or comm gear that require it to operate, and everything else would have wireless access turned off during a run. Any competent tech can splice a small switch into the wireless antenna connection... touch a button and even remote activation codes fail to work because wireless is cut at the hardware level. Of course the more high tech toys a character uses the more things he may need to leave open, but unless you're a drone rigger or something why use standard PDA integration at all? Buy a helmet with an integrated display and low-light / IR vision, run a wired link from it through your jacket to glove-mounted smartlink induction pads and a tactical computer on your belt and you have all the high tech enhanced targeting capabilities with no PDA or wireless needed. It's a bit more of a hassle to set up and you'll need custom hardware, but it'll be a lot cheaper than an ultra-secure PDA with bleeding edge encryption and not only will you not get hacked, you'll be a heck of a lot harder to detect if someone is smart enough to set up signal scanners to detect if someone with an active PDA is walking around in an area no one is supposed to be in...
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
And Frank Trollman is an ESPECIALLY untrustworthy source of info. You DO realize that he's merely ticked off that, because of problems of his own creation, Catalyst (and FanPro before it) opted to no longer do business with him?
Even prior to the events you're trying to talk about, Trollman has been doing everything in his power to hurt CGL.
You also realize the people making the accusations besides Trollman actively tried to sabotage the company on their way out? And are now running a competing business?
If you think there's any "white knight" in this scenario, think again. This is simply a power struggle for control of valuable IP between the owners of a company and someone who tried to actively take over the company from within, failed, and made a mess of things whilst bailing.
Also, since you've posted, Topps has renewed CGL's license and shows every intention of extending it even further. If there was actual wrongdoing, do you think this would be the case?
Please remember that just because you see something on a webpage on the internet doesn't mean it's true.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.