Verdict on Warmace?


abnormal_joe

 

Posted

From what I've been reading lately, warmace seems to be an under-appreciated set. I'm currently rolling a WP/WM and the reason I picked WM is because...

1. It's one of the only secondaries I've yet to try on a tank(battle axe being the other).
2. I had a really cool concept in mind for him.
My only concern is that I'll reach my late 30s or early 40s and realize that this set subpar. I know alot of people say that it's bad on damage, but the way I see it is, "I'm a tank, damage isn't my job anyway."

Anyways, I'm just searching for final thoughts on it before I begin to invest more time in him. As always, any and all feedback is really appreciated.


- Im Not Talking Fast, You're Just Listening Slow.
- To Each His Own

 

Posted

It used to be unappreciated as it didn't stand out in anyway and so good at nothing thereby lacking in some peoples fun perhaps but since then it's been buffed and buffed beyond my expectations of balance. If you like the look of it then, play it.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Its a solid set with plenty of damage. Basic rule of thumb for these forums.
We end up with a thread where we endless argue over the exact damage rankings of the set. Folks glance over it and then proclaim that every set not currently #1 is teh suxxorz.
It's kind of sad really since they are all pretty well balanced at the moment. Some are a little biased for single target or aoe. Some are tweaked slightly for providing more mitigation. None are "low damage" to me and I have played every last set to 50.


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Posted

I have a WP/WM tanker. I must say the damage and mitigation is very very impressive. Crowd Control is huge damage. I also have a SS/Fire Brute and a /kin corrupter, and WM is enough to satisfy my damage wants ;P


 

Posted

It's regarded as very similar to Axe...slightly less damage in the heavy-hitters, but notably better AoE.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy View Post
Anyways, I'm just searching for final thoughts on it before I begin to invest more time in him. As always, any and all feedback is really appreciated.
Mace is quite adequate. I have a Shield/Mace, and the damage and multi target damage is not bad at all, even though I skipped Whirling Mace.

It also has one of the widest selections of weapon models you can get.



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
It's regarded as very similar to Axe...slightly less damage in the heavy-hitters, but notably better AoE.
Clobber does incredible damage. People I think are sometimes stuck on the old Clobber which if I recall correctly was really just a stun. They added a lot of damage to it and it has a fantastic, short recharge.

Here are the unenhanced numbers @ 50 from Mid's (selecting the biggest single target heavy hitter or closest to):

Clobber: 129.9 (105 DPS)
Thunderstrike: 87.2 (26 DPS)
Energy Transfer: 202 (75 DPS)
Total Focus: 158.4 (48 DPS)
Greater Fire Sword: 144.1 (61 DPS)
Seismic Smash: 158.4 (105 DPS)
Knockout Blow (No Rage): 158.4 (71 DPS)
Cleave: 122.8 (52.7 DPS)

In order of DPS:

Clobber/Seismic Smash (tied)
Energy Transfer
Knockout Blow
Greater Firesword
Cleave
Total Focus
Thunderstrike

Ice and Dual Blades don't have a single target attack that can really compete on that scale. Electric Melee can't compare either but I threw that in just so you can get an idea.

Clobber may have lower damage than a few, but its activation time means it is the tied highest damage/second attack (alongside Seismic Smash). Rage will naturally impact this, as will Fire's general DPS from all the rest of its excellent attacks, but to label War Mace is 'low damage' is definitely untrue. Having played War Mace to 50, I must say I never feel even remotely underpowered in damage.


 

Posted

Pros: great stuns and KD/KU for mitigation, two low-recharge powerful AOEs
Cons: smashing damage is highly and commonly resisted

I'd consider it one of the better offensive sets for Tankers right now. Most are fairly well-balanced, so it comes down to what you want out of the set and it's tough to argue with good AOEs and good mitigation for PVE purposes.


 

Posted

Set still seems a bit slow on cycle times, for me, but overall I'm ejoying it on my Brute and on the few Tanks I have it on it seems like a good set and nice alternative to SS. I've got a couple Axers out there leveled to 50 and I think War Mace is probably the better choice now. I've been meaning to work on my Macers, but other concepts/ideas/builds keep getting put in front of it....

You can now choose from several different weapon looks (I like the War Hammer, and Morganstern) and add some color variation, so it won't look like everyone else's Mace, which is nice. Plus it gives a satisfying crunching sound when you bring justice to your foes.

Anyways, pretty much what everyone else has said. It's a good set now (unless of course you're not into weapons).




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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly View Post
Here are the unenhanced numbers @ 50 from Mid's (selecting the biggest single target heavy hitter or closest to):

Clobber: 129.9 (105 DPS)
Thunderstrike: 87.2 (26 DPS)
Energy Transfer: 202 (75 DPS)
Total Focus: 158.4 (48 DPS)
Greater Fire Sword: 144.1 (61 DPS)
Seismic Smash: 158.4 (105 DPS)
Knockout Blow (No Rage): 158.4 (71 DPS)
Cleave: 122.8 (52.7 DPS)

In order of DPS:

Clobber/Seismic Smash (tied)
Energy Transfer
Knockout Blow
Greater Firesword
Cleave
Total Focus
Thunderstrike
I thought Thunderstrike is a PBAoE. Attack Chains matter to me.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
I thought Thunderstrike is a PBAoE. Attack Chains matter to me.
It is, but it's still the most damaging attack in Electrical Melee, not including Lightning Rod. Electric only has two true ST attacks, the Tier 1 and Tier 2. A good set, but not exactly a ST powerhouse.


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Posted

Also, Thunderstrike doesn't do much damage as an AOE. It mostly just knocks back surrounding foes (chance for it), with some paltry damage thrown in. My E^3 Blaster has to have a closeby minion about dead if Thunderstrike's splash damage is going to drop them. I think of it more as an ST attack with benefits to the surrounding area.

On topic, the verdict on War Mace is that it is now awesome. It used to have a lot of issues, and those have been removed thanks to BAB and Castle's work. It does good ST and AOE damage, as well as having decent mitigation from its stuns and KD. The animations are faster than they used to be, though it still feels like you are swinging around something heavy (set looks better with a Mace than a baseball bat, imo). I would highly recommend the set. I enjoyed it before the buffs, and it is fantastic now.

No need to go to the Brute forums for that. We had a massive "Buff War Mace!" thread that had its dreams come true here on the Tanker forums, after all.


Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
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Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
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Posted

Thanks for the all the replies all, it really helps both mentally and directly. One more question before I move on however.

The set seems to have alot of attacks worth picking up, which could theoretically build to a long attack chain. With builds being as tight as they are lately, what do you think is a good attack chain for the set. Keep in mind, I love AoEs so I'm more than likely going to get WA, CC, along with shatter.


- Im Not Talking Fast, You're Just Listening Slow.
- To Each His Own

 

Posted

warmace is soo strong! but you won't be pretty unless ur a energy brute so srry ur stuck with strong and ugly


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy View Post
Thanks for the all the replies all, it really helps both mentally and directly. One more question before I move on however.

The set seems to have alot of attacks worth picking up, which could theoretically build to a long attack chain. With builds being as tight as they are lately, what do you think is a good attack chain for the set. Keep in mind, I love AoEs so I'm more than likely going to get WA, CC, along with shatter.
I'd sat for AOE Shatter isn't terribly good. It has a fairly long cast time and the arc of attack is very very narrow. It does do okay damage but not good damage for the time it takes to activate.

You can get away with skipping your T2 attack and just getting the T1, T3 and Clobber, and fill the rest with AOEs. With sufficient recharge slotting you can get away with skipping Shatter altogether but that will mean sacrifices elsewhere.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly View Post
I'd sat for AOE Shatter isn't terribly good. It has a fairly long cast time and the arc of attack is very very narrow. It does do okay damage but not good damage for the time it takes to activate.

You can get away with skipping your T2 attack and just getting the T1, T3 and Clobber, and fill the rest with AOEs. With sufficient recharge slotting you can get away with skipping Shatter altogether but that will mean sacrifices elsewhere.
One of the changes that was made when they buffed WM was to widen Shatter's arc to 45 degrees. Compare that to Axe's Cleave, which has a 20 degree arc. Now *that* is a narrow arc, but 45 degrees isn't bad at all; I very commonly can catch two or three foes with it. I also woudn't suggest skipping Shatter because it's the second highest damaging power in the set after Clobber.

I'd recommend that the OP take everything in WM except Pulverize; Jawbreaker is especially helpful as damage mitigation in the early levels. That way, you end up with 3 ST and 3 AoE attacks, 3 that do stuns and 3 that do KD/KU. A good mix, IMO.


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Posted

WM is mathematically the most Uber Tanker Primary in PvP!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly View Post
I'd sat for AOE Shatter isn't terribly good. It has a fairly long cast time and the arc of attack is very very narrow. It does do okay damage but not good damage for the time it takes to activate.

You can get away with skipping your T2 attack and just getting the T1, T3 and Clobber, and fill the rest with AOEs. With sufficient recharge slotting you can get away with skipping Shatter altogether but that will mean sacrifices elsewhere.

I've just noticed this thread so OP's probably already picked and on his way, but if he chose shield/mace I'd suggest a final chain that also skips jawbreaker.
Between SC, 5 mace attacks (bash cbr wm cc shat) and if he takes Pyre, char fire blast and fire ball, he'll have more then an adequate attack chain.

Fire/Mace is also a kicking combo following the three FA updates and Bruising, not a bad choice if you hanker to wield the thump stick.






 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly View Post
I'd sat for AOE Shatter isn't terribly good. It has a fairly long cast time and the arc of attack is very very narrow.
If used after Crowd Control it's pretty easy to hit multiple targets. At least that's what I do on my SD/WM tank followed by Whirling Mace.

I wish we had more customizable options, like Axe. We still don't have a Vanguard Mace, Rikti Mace or Roman Mace, if I am not mistaken.

Oh and it's Garthalus (thanks to his SD/WM guide) fault that I rolled my first tank and had a hell of fun taking her to 50


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razia View Post

I wish we had more customizable options, like Axe. We still don't have a Vanguard Mace, Rikti Mace or Roman Mace, if I am not mistaken.

I've bugged BaB to add an electrified hammer as an option for years now, but for some reason he refuses.






 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim View Post
Also, Thunderstrike doesn't do much damage as an AOE. It mostly just knocks back surrounding foes (chance for it), with some paltry damage thrown in.
Electric Manipulation Thunderstrike and Electric Melee Thunderstrike are not the same animal. Melee Thunderstrike does knockdown, not knockback, and deals nearly half its damage as AoE (specifically, a 1:0.96 ratio).

As for Shatter and Cleave, one thing to remember is that the AoE is free. Both are treated as single-target powers for purposes of the damage/endurance/recharge formula.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderslug View Post
Electric Manipulation Thunderstrike and Electric Melee Thunderstrike are not the same animal. Melee Thunderstrike does knockdown, not knockback, and deals nearly half its damage as AoE (specifically, a 1:0.96 ratio).

As for Shatter and Cleave, one thing to remember is that the AoE is free. Both are treated as single-target powers for purposes of the damage/endurance/recharge formula.
I suppose, but I still think of Thunderstrike as an ST attack with benefits.


Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc:
Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory

 

Posted

Quote:
Verdict on Warmace?

GUILTY!




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