Brute as damage

This thread makes my head hurt.

There's a key point here: none of the redside ATs lack mitigation. Some are more squishy than others, but all have more capabilities to deal with incoming threats than, say, your typical blaster. Of course, there're lots of outliers (some blasters that play more controllery than some controllers), but the general rule holds.

Pretty much every redside AT has debuffs, defense, resistance, regeneration, heals, mezzes in ample supply. They also all have at least fair damage. In other words, all are hybrids. As such, they strongly blur the damage/support/meatshield roles.

Therefore, there is not nearly as much need for a brute to manage every bit of aggro as there would be for a tanker. Everyone has tools to manage some measure of stray aggro, whether it is threatening them or their teammate. I'm far from being one of the best players (I sometimes do stupid, reckless things just for fun or to see if I can pull them off and survive), but I can still see and appreciate this point.

What the others are describing here seems to be a team where everyone simply inter-operates without locking themselves into that trio of roles.

I can see that there's still a lot I have to learn about tanking too. That bit about using your heavy attacks on minions to eliminate them while attacking the boss frequently (with the lighter quicker recharging attacks, I presume) is something I'll have to keep in mind. Of course, the lag of playing on a substandard computer degraded my performance in general play, heh. Now that I'm on a better computer, I can more easily see where I'm lacking and try to improve.

The fun thing about this topic is that you all actually agree with one another, you're just so stuck on semantics that you don't know it yet.

All these things are "tactics", and the common mistake novice players in RPG's make is that they look at these "tactics" and assign "roles" to their characters so as to simplify the amount of processing they have to do when creating a strategy to defeat an enemy. This is my tank guy, he does tanking things. This is my healer, she (and it's always a she) will be healing and falling in love with the main character. This is my caster, he's going to shoot things.

This is all fine and dandy, if we were playing an RPG from 15 years ago, but we aren't. A truly good player with a well thought out RPG will not simply assign roles to their units, but be aware of everything their unit can do.

For Example: This guy has 38 DEF, but only 5 M.DEF, however he has an MP draining move, so if his speed is higher than his enemy, it is okay to send him against a spell caster. Situating him nearby his best friend boosts his speed by +10, and his friend has higher magic defense, so despite him normally being the Tank, I'm going to have him act as back up for his friend in this instance and try to finish the spellcaster off before it does much damage.

In this example the "role" of "tanking" is an invalid tactic for the character who typically fulfills it, and that is the fun thing about tactics; You can't just continuously apply them to every situation and be the victor, nor are our characters so limited that they are only capable of utilizing one tactic. If such was the case, I wouldn't be here telling you about it.

Brutes CAN "tank", but that doesn't mean they always SHOULD "tank". A really GOOD player is going to be fully aware of every tactic he can utilize, and when is the best method of utilizing them regardless of his AT and Brutes are no different. An even BETTER player is going to know the capabilities of everyone their team, and adjust themselves accordingly and discuss strategies to improve progress when necessary.

A Brute that knows how to tank is good, but a Brute that knows when to Tank is better, and most of the time a Brute doesn't need to tank. So, should a brute be expected to tank? Only as much as you expect your defender to blast.

The trinity was born out of efficiency. You could usually go another route with potentially more risk or less reward, but the trinity just works well in most games. Add buffs and debuffs and you get even better. It works in COH, blueside or redside, due to Taunt being arguably the most effective control in the game for teams. However, redside ATs don't cater to the trinity like blueside does, mainly due to the absence of a Tanker equivalent. Without that focus in ATs, the trinity becomes less efficient and, consequently, used less often.

Then it becomes a matter of what works in your particular circumstance. Just like teaming without a Tanker blueside, you have to change your expectations when teaming redside. Controls and buffs/debuffs become the most efficient options remaining, which leads to some teams looking down on Stalkers.

There will be some circumstances where this outperforms the trinity (e.g. tightly packed mobs waiting for you with plenty of space between packs). It can be more engaging for the player, because the flow of combat won't be quite so regimented, which may or may not be a selling point to a particular player. That bit of added chaos also carries additional risk. You can mitigate that risk to a degree, but not to the same degree a blueside trinity team can. That's not a gamebreaking issue, just something to remember when playing redside.

I would say you pull it you tank it.

If you cant learn to assist then go solo.

i have provoke on my def capped bot/traps MM.. does that make me a tank?

i use seeker drones to negate all the available aggro in any given spawn...Does that make me a tank?

Between some of my pets being on defensive/follow, and others attacking hard targets with AOEs, i'm able to pull more then then aggro cap of any given tanker or brute... Does that make me a tank?

I'm able to CC nearly every mob in a group due to combined immobilize/holds/sheer damage basically every spawn (immobilize charges in like 10 seconds (i think) poison trap is about 25 seconds, damage is well, all the time)...Does that make me a tank?

Really, think about what is being said, and how redside plays out, before you go labeling things 'tanks' or not. Then we'll talk.

A good brute...

No, a good player adapts to fill in with what a team needs to the best of their AT's ability.

The most important thing you can do when you join a team is to ask what they expect of you. If their expectations don't jibe with what you want to do or what is within your capabilities then you need to decide if you want to leave or stay. Communication solves most of the little problems in life.

If you don't want to tanks as a brute then find someone who will.

If you don't mind tabbing to that purple boss beating down your support team member and tossing a "pity taunt" so they can have some fun too then do that.

If the team knows what to expect from you they won't have reason to condemn you unless you suck at what you agreed to do.

I think some people want baby sisters an think tanks or brutes are is the problem.

Yesterday did a TF a blaster pulls the AV an expects to live lmao.

An having played a tank in many MMO's dps does not pull a boss less you plan on soloing it.

An if you can then all the power to you.

Tanker: Big beefy guy behind a shield who infuriates every enemy in the area. He will, on occasion, break someone's face.

Scrapper: Well-built, limber guy carrying a giant blade and carving up the enemies trying to take down the Tanker. If need be he can heft a shield for a brief period.

Brute: Ripped crazy-eyed guy coated in plate armor who sprints past both the Tanker and Scrapper holding two massive hammers and proceeds to beat the living hell out of everything in sight.

Short version: The Tanker is a steel wall, the Scrapper is a giant white-hot rotary saw, and the Brute is an M-1 Abrams.

Brutes can fill Damage or Tanking depending on their powersets. Hell, even my Fire/Fire, who isn't softcapped to anything, can tank if I really put my fist to the anvil.

Redside AT's are more dynamic than Blueside AT's. That's all there is to it. Adapt and understand, and for the love of all that is holy, don't let that Tankermind tell you to let him tank instead.

It varies for me, at low levels I enjoy having a Tank on a redside team. My Brute can then just mop up/smash. At mid/high levels it is kind of irritating sometimes, cause the dude wants my agro, which i need. At very high levels, it is again nice to have a tank, thinking LRSF and such. Because there is plenty of agro to go around, and I hate taking all that hate and face planting. (Although with my new guy I have yet to be seriously challenged in standard play.)

Also, annoying enough, some tanks (throwing out 30% here, with no data whatsoever) do not want to tank, they want a Scranker. For the 3% (again, where do I get these numbers???) of Tankers who can afford the I/Os to butcher the tank build into a somewhat okay damage dealing machine, great. For the rest of them it is pathetic. And they steal agro doing this half axed tanking job. They usually do not take taunt, so they are a lame and deficient member of any team. I'm like, get a Brute, you want someone who can take and deal massive damage, they built it already, look around.