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Two words.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
OMG are they finally implementing Gravity Sink in place of dimention shift for gravity control!???
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Cottage rule.
The last time they tried replacing powers, they were nearly lynched. You'll note we now have *five* powers in the APP/PPPs.
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First of all, the prea material is 1-20 so it's not an epic pool power. Secondly, I'm sure that most of everyone well agree that gravity needs a revamp, Cottage rule applies if there was nothing wrong with the power in the first place, I'm sure there is only a hand full of people who actually take the power. Though I'm jumping to no conclusions, your post is misplaced.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Two words.
Cottage rule. The last time they tried replacing powers, they were nearly lynched. You'll note we now have *five* powers in the APP/PPPs. |
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"Cottage rule applies if there was nothing wrong with the power in the first place"|
Originally Posted by Novawulfe
First of all, the prea material is 1-20 so it's not an epic pool power. Secondly, I'm sure that most of everyone well agree that gravity needs a revamp, Cottage rule applies if there was nothing wrong with the power in the first place, I'm sure there is only a hand full of people who actually take the power. Though I'm jumping to no conclusions, your post is misplaced.
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Huh? This makes no sense. Why would you change a power if there was nothing wrong with it?
Every power change made in the live game has adhered to the rule that it keeps some aspect of how it worked. I doubt that's going to change personally.
That said if it was a 5 second Intang which also clustered the mobs towards a spot before releasing them that'd work and still adhere to the Cottage Rule.
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I think you misunderstood - what Memphis_Bill (I believe) was saying that when they tried to change the APPs/PPPs people cried out so rather than changing a power they added an extra 5th one to all the APPs/PPPs. He wasn't saying that was a APP/PPP power.
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Originally Posted by Novawulfe
First of all, the prea material is 1-20 so it's not an epic pool power. Secondly, I'm sure that most of everyone well agree that gravity needs a revamp, Cottage rule applies if there was nothing wrong with the power in the first place, I'm sure there is only a hand full of people who actually take the power. Though I'm jumping to no conclusions, your post is misplaced.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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Between :57 and 1:01 all I see are what appear to be death animations.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
This entire post should receive some kind of award for being both hysterical and fantastic.
Well done. |
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Ah, well maybe we all need to be a little more clear on what we mean, I was stating that Cottage rule applies when you have a power working as intended, but it's not up to par with other powers. The rule is as I take it, you can not change the very bases the power rides on. Let's go with Conserve power in electric armor. it was changed for two reasons. |
Originally Posted by Tired Angel
I think you misunderstood - what Memphis_Bill (I believe) was saying that when they tried to change the APPs/PPPs people cried out so rather than changing a power they added an extra 5th one to all the APPs/PPPs. He wasn't saying that was a APP/PPP power.
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1) A Scrapper Epic had it in it already.
2) The Armors survivability was a bit on the low side.
The only way the Devs could change the power is if...
1) they keep the power's type of application ( Targeted AoE? ) and intang. but change the length of which they are intang.
2) If they did use your idea, then they could only add the effect in, not take anything out.
So the power would look kind of like this:
Gravity Sink: Ranged ( Targeted AoE), foe Intang, Foe Attract.
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It does look kind of strange though....
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Originally Posted by RedSwitchblade
Between :57 and 1:01 all I see are what appear to be death animations.
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Might I suggest looking into what happened with Conserve power in Electric Armor or maybe unyielding? in Invulnerability. |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
"Cottage rule applies if there was nothing wrong with the power in the first place"
Huh? This makes no sense. Why would you change a power if there was nothing wrong with it? Every power change made in the live game has adhered to the rule that it keeps some aspect of how it worked. I doubt that's going to change personally. That said if it was a 5 second Intang which also clustered the mobs towards a spot before releasing them that'd work and still adhere to the Cottage Rule. |
They both worked like they wanted them to, but wasn't up to par.
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It looks like Volcanic Gasses (painted in green) to me... maybe with earthquake (which would be explaining why the ghouls are laying ont the floor)
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Originally Posted by Windenergy21
http://goingrogue.na.cityofheroes.co...ia/videos.html
Look at 0:57 - 1:01 OMG are they finally implementing Gravity Sink in place of dimention shift for gravity control!??? (power I designed for gravity control, think of an inverse bonfire, sucking enemies to the center instead of flinging them out of it) |
It's not a new power. Wait two weeks and you'll see.
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Irrelevant.|
Originally Posted by Novawulfe
First of all, the prea material is 1-20 so it's not an epic pool power.
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| Secondly, I'm sure that most of everyone well agree that gravity needs a revamp, Cottage rule applies if there was nothing wrong with the power in the first place, |
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| I'm sure there is only a hand full of people who actually take the power. Though I'm jumping to no conclusions, your post is misplaced. |
For instance, Dominators mace mastery. They wanted to replace the "nobody takes/less useful" targeted AOE with Personal Force Field. Guess what my 50 Dom has as a PPP... and what power (wanting more damage) I was using. PFF is many orders of magnitude less useful to me. They ran into that with *every single change.*
They will not outright replace a power with one that's completely different. So, looking at the OP (emphasis mine: )
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| OMG are they finally implementing Gravity Sink in place of dimention shift for gravity control!??? |
Just for the record powers have been completely replaced in the past but this was eons ago and before the cottage rule was even considered.
Oddly enough the one that stands out was also a gravity power. They added the singularity in place of the oh so common Team recall power.
Again like I said this was ages ago and I don't think there are any/many other examples at all esp after the cottage rule became the norm. There is slim to no chance that they might replace another power in Gravity but honestly I would love to get hold of a power like gravity sink but not deprive other players who want their dimension shift powers. In fact if it were possible I would probably take both powers.
It didn't look like death animations or earthquake to me...
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Judging from that, perhaps it's the Jolting Shocks power from Electric Control they mentioned in one of the recent interviews, though said interview made it sound kind of like Chain Induction with knockdown.
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Originally Posted by ketch
It's not a new power. Wait two weeks and you'll see.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
I was posting about changes that should be made to Dimension Shift years and years ago, by now I have long given up. I think the only people who care don't have the voice to make it happen. You would have to propose something -all- controllers could get behind.
As for 'cottage rule' (I hate this term), people should note that its a great rule for blasters, scrappers etc because DAMAGE powers are very very rarely designed wrongly and need changing from the ground up. Control powers or buff/debuff powers however really suffer from it. Also even though no one takes Dimension Shift and not many people play Gravity, some forumites would still cause an outcry if it was changed.
People don't seem to understand the concept of 'exception to the rule', and if Dimension Shift changed, somehow that means everything would be at risk of complete change.
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You know Memphis there is a fundemental flaw in the 'cottage rule'. You will note that it has no impact on the vast majority of powers which the devs can just tinker the numbers to make it effective. However it does have a massive impact on poorly designed powers like Dimension Shift. It is a serious flaw and I can't imagine any other game following it. there has to be exceptions to such a rule.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Irrelevant.
Incorrect. The cottage rule is that any change to a power will not alter that power's fundamental purpose, whether you think there's "nothing wrong" with the power or not. For instance, Energy Aura formerly had just a power sink that drained END. EA could use a heal. Did they replace power sink? No. They added a healing component to it. They did the same thing with Electric armor (Energize.) The power's initial purpose remains. Yes, and they're not going to screw over the "handful of people" (myself included) who take the power. My post isn't misplaced, your understanding of the cottage rule is lacking. Thus my pointing out of the APP/PPP changes - that was the last time they tried breaking the cottage rule and replacing "powers nobody takes" with "more useful" ones (their own words.) For instance, Dominators mace mastery. They wanted to replace the "nobody takes/less useful" targeted AOE with Personal Force Field. Guess what my 50 Dom has as a PPP... and what power (wanting more damage) I was using. PFF is many orders of magnitude less useful to me. They ran into that with *every single change.* They will not outright replace a power with one that's completely different. So, looking at the OP (emphasis mine: ) the answer would be "no." Reason? The cottage rule. |
What is preferable, and what makes better business sense:
A) Gravity Control which is regarded as the weakest control set, stuck with a control power at 12 which is also regarded as perhaps the worst power in the game. Single handedly this power makes Gravity a bad set, because at 12 all other control sets take off. The set is unpopular and struggles to be effective.
B) Gravity Control which has been overhauled and is now more popular, more effective and more fun. Very little has changed, but the Dimension Shift has had a massive overhaul into something that actually helps a team.
Now thats the dream, and I woke up from that a long time ago so I'm not kidding myself, this is a hypothetical argument. Still, people who smuggly sit on Dimension Shift quoting the dev handbook to CoH do rile me.
Something more constructive: what could the devs change about Dimension Shift to make it more useful, while still keep the intangible? Well Arcanaville came up with the concept that you didn't have to send them to a nice dimension, and they could get random debuffs on their return. I thought of how the inatangible could turn into a sleep after 10-15 seconds, effectively providing a hard lock sleep which could then be broken after a little while. Also making phased enemies untargetable would help Di. Shift.
Anyway, I still remember when Wormhole was not an AoE Stun and just an AoE teleport, so that itself is proof on how things can be improved.
Dimension Shift is terrible. Raze the cottage and save the village.
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Not every power has to be helpful for steamroller teams. For teams with patience, and for solo play, it's a fairly useful power to keep spawns off you until you're ready for them (everything else dead, everyone healed up, big powers closer to being, if not fully, recharged, etc.).
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Originally Posted by Peacemoon
B) Gravity Control which has been overhauled and is now more popular, more effective and more fun. Very little has changed, but the Dimension Shift has had a massive overhaul into something that actually helps a team.
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I really wanted to insert something pithy and sarcastic here... but I can't come up with a comment that makes the fact that a large players don't think about the game beyond maximum rewards under any and all circumstances seem funny. |
Originally Posted by JD_Gumby
Not every power has to be helpful for steamroller teams. For teams with patience, and for solo play, it's a fairly useful power to keep spawns off you until you're ready for them (everything else dead, everyone healed up, big powers closer to being, if not fully, recharged, etc.).
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My hope is that the Incarnate Content will be designed in such a way as to where tactics and strategies are required beyond "buff up:: CHARGE!"
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Look bubby, I'm not on here to nerd rage with ya over things that do not pertain to me, I already said I misunderstand you, leave it at that. The one thing I'm looking forward too is porting my mind Dom over cause I can't stand red content. Either way whatever that is a combo of it's cool either way. Good day.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Irrelevant.
Incorrect. The cottage rule is that any change to a power will not alter that power's fundamental purpose, whether you think there's "nothing wrong" with the power or not. For instance, Energy Aura formerly had just a power sink that drained END. EA could use a heal. Did they replace power sink? No. They added a healing component to it. They did the same thing with Electric armor (Energize.) The power's initial purpose remains. Yes, and they're not going to screw over the "handful of people" (myself included) who take the power. My post isn't misplaced, your understanding of the cottage rule is lacking. Thus my pointing out of the APP/PPP changes - that was the last time they tried breaking the cottage rule and replacing "powers nobody takes" with "more useful" ones (their own words.) For instance, Dominators mace mastery. They wanted to replace the "nobody takes/less useful" targeted AOE with Personal Force Field. Guess what my 50 Dom has as a PPP... and what power (wanting more damage) I was using. PFF is many orders of magnitude less useful to me. They ran into that with *every single change.* They will not outright replace a power with one that's completely different. So, looking at the OP (emphasis mine: ) the answer would be "no." Reason? The cottage rule. |
Castle has told me directly (I still have the pm) that he is waiting for a tech request he put in to be finished in order to make dimension shift/black hole more useful and desireable.
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I don't disagree with the notion, but this argument could be used against any request for a power change. |
Originally Posted by JD_Gumby
Not every power has to be helpful for steamroller teams. For teams with patience, and for solo play, it's a fairly useful power to keep spawns off you until you're ready for them (everything else dead, everyone healed up, big powers closer to being, if not fully, recharged, etc.).
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Also what makes Dimension Shift a special case for me is it isn't just any old power; its location and its relevance to the set makes it Gravity's answer to flashfire, ice slick, stalagmites, mss hypnosis etc. If Gravity had some oher viable aoe control before 26 Dimension Shift would not be the huge deal it is, just like Black Hole is not as much as a problem to Dark Miasma.
Its when you look at the set as a whole that you realise how much of a problem Dimension Shift is for Gravity. Believe me if the set was designed differently I'm sure people would view Dimension Shift like they view Salt Crystals for Earth.
Hamidon attacks can hit Intangibles.
Therefore, there is no reason why Dimension Shift couldn't be coded as a Toggle which hits both Tangibles (to make them Intangible in the first place) *and* Intangibles (to keep them Intangible) on every activation tick.
Alternatively, you could accept the notion of a "leaky" Intangible toggle effect, where the duration on the Intangibility doesn't quite manage to match the activation time. Something like 1.9 seconds of Intangibility on a 2 second activation cycle time. The Intangibility then "wears off" just in time to get reapplied, and there is a 5% time window every activation cycle in which attacks can "escape" from the Dimension Shift to affect Tangible targets.
Either way gets us to a toggle Intangibility power. You can even add the GrantPowerNoIntangible that all Intangibility powers seem to have these days, so that even if you keep the toggle turned on, the Intangibility effect will only chain together for 30 seconds before suppressing itself.
S imple
E ffective
E asy
Not being done. 
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Dimension Shift, I use now and then. Some people complain when I phase a second group whilst they should be defeating the first group.... Don't want it used in teams then don't overwhelm the team with too much aggro. I rather use the power than heal. If I get in trouble, there it is. If they change it then they might adjust the duration and rechg. 20secs looks about right. However 30s and the ability to turn it off at will from making it a toggle would be good.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I'm not sure if Hamidon's striking intangibles is baked into the powers or baked into the entity itself.|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
Hamidon attacks can hit Intangibles.
Therefore, there is no reason why Dimension Shift couldn't be coded as a Toggle which hits both Tangibles (to make them Intangible in the first place) *and* Intangibles (to keep them Intangible) on every activation tick. |
We do know, however, that phased characters can affect phased entities* i.e. hit the enemy with Dimensions Shift, use Ethereal Shift, and you can continue attacking them. I could see it working as a toggle power that phased the targets and caster at the same time.
*Master Illusionists inevitably come up in these discussions; however, they do not use the phase status. They become untouchable akin to Phantom Army. This allows them, like PA, to affect enemies without being affected.
http://goingrogue.na.cityofheroes.co...ia/videos.html
Look at 0:57 - 1:01
OMG are they finally implementing Gravity Sink in place of dimention shift for gravity control!???
(power I designed for gravity control, think of an inverse bonfire, sucking enemies to the center instead of flinging them out of it)
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