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In my opinion, no. For my play style Fly Trap is best used as an alpha absorber.
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Originally Posted by Blaze
Just have a quick question. Is it worth the slot investment to add Shield Breaker, Touch of Lady Grey and/or Achilles' Heel procs to Fly Trap for extra damage? I've been considering it, but want opinions before deciding. I've been leveling my Plant/Storm again and thought it might be a good way to get some extra damage while I move towards Tornado and Lightning Storm, as well as APP powers.
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From all I've heard (and from my own experience), procs drop in value in direct proportion to the damage of a power; the higher the damage, the lower the worth of the proc in terms of actually increasing your DPS. The 'trap is high enough damage that proccing it out is probably a bit of a waste of time... although the Achilles' Heel proc might not be a bad idea, as I think that all of the Flytrap's attacks benefit from it (mind you, if you've just got the one, you're better off putting it in Freezing Rain, I think).
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Maybe not. The Trap is active all the time not sporadically like FR. And putting it in the Trap means you don't need to add Accuracy to Freezing Rain (the proc checks to see if it has hit before the Rain debuffs anything).
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Originally Posted by TeChameleon
The 'trap is high enough damage that proccing it out is probably a bit of a waste of time... although the Achilles' Heel proc might not be a bad idea, as I think that all of the Flytrap's attacks benefit from it (mind you, if you've just got the one, you're better off putting it in Freezing Rain, I think).
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
Eh, six of one, half a dozen of the other- Achilles' Heel is far more likely to go off in Freezing Rain than on the 'trap, simply because it's AoE, while the Flytrap's attacks are (almost?) all single-target. Your pick- Freezing Rain, with a little bit of recharge, is up often enough for it to be worthwhile, in my opinion.
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Nope, it has a cone attack with -Def, Fling Thorns.|
Originally Posted by TeChameleon
Eh, six of one, half a dozen of the other- Achilles' Heel is far more likely to go off in Freezing Rain than on the 'trap, simply because it's AoE, while the Flytrap's attacks are (almost?) all single-target.
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Entangle (Ranged, AoE, DoT(Smash), DoT(Lethal), Immobilize, -Knockback) Thorny Darts (Ranged, single target, Lethal, DoT(Toxic), -Def) Fling Thorns (Ranged, Cone, Lethal, DoT(Toxic), -Def) Bite (Melee, single target, Lethal, DoT(Toxic), -Def) |
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
meh, I'd slot Fly Trap like normal, save the procs for Carrion Creepers 
I'd stick the Achilles Heel into Fly Trap alright. Wouldn't bother with the other PROCs though really.
I thought Ach heel could be put in more than one power?
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A Plant/Storm/xxx can be slot the Achilles Heel Proc in Freezing Rain, Fly Trap, and Tornado. This can potentially give you a +60% Damage Boost if all three fire.
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Originally Posted by Novawulfe
I thought Ach heel could be put in more than one power?
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I suppose you mean -res debuff, but ya I checked it after I posted, I was just wondering why they were acting like they would only have one IO they could use.... Unless they are real tight on slots...
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Originally Posted by saltyhero13
A Plant/Storm/xxx can be slot the Achilles Heel Proc in Freezing Rain, Fly Trap, and Tornado. This can potentially give you a +60% Damage Boost if all three fire.
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Originally Posted by saltyhero13
A Plant/Storm/xxx can be slot the Achilles Heel Proc in Freezing Rain, Fly Trap, and Tornado. This can potentially give you a +60% Damage Boost if all three fire.
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Unless it has been changed recently (and I haven't kept up, so it may have) you can only have one Achilles Heel Proc fired on a target at one time.
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Originally Posted by brophog02
Unless it has been changed recently (and I haven't kept up, so it may have) you can only have one Achilles Heel Proc fired on a target at one time.
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That is my understanding as well.
Procs work a bit funny in pets and pseudo-pets- I'm not sure, but what I've heard is that the game considers the Flytrap, Freezing Rain, and your character as three separate sources.
"A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head." Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates
MA Arcs: #12285, "Small Fears", #106553, "Trollbane", #12669, "How to Survive a Robot Uprising"
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Procs in the Creepers are... well... funky.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
meh, I'd slot Fly Trap like normal, save the procs for Carrion Creepers
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This is true it has not changed, but in this case.....|
Originally Posted by brophog02
Unless it has been changed recently (and I haven't kept up, so it may have) you can only have one Achilles Heel Proc fired on a target at one time.
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Originally Posted by TeChameleon
Procs work a bit funny in pets and pseudo-pets- I'm not sure, but what I've heard is that the game considers the Flytrap, Freezing Rain, and your character as three separate sources.
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You are basically summoning two pseudo pets and a pet which the game sees as three different sources. Works great on hardened targets. I think it still bypasses -res debuff resistances too.
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Actually, the way it did work was it didn't matter if it was from 3 different PEOPLE.......a single target could not have multiple instances on them, regardless of what the source was.|
Originally Posted by saltyhero13
This is true it has not changed, but in this case.....
....what he said. You are basically summoning two pseudo pets and a pet which the game sees as three different sources. Works great on hardened targets. I think it still bypasses -res debuff resistances too. |
Has anyone tested this recently to see if that changed?
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I know that it cant stack from the same caster, but I wasn't aware this was the case. I'm glad you brought this up. Its frustrating having things change and not being aware that its been modified. Nor it being documented anywhere. I try to give out decent info, its like a full time job keeping up with (undocumented) game mechanic changes....ugh|
Originally Posted by brophog02
Actually, the way it did work was it didn't matter if it was from 3 different PEOPLE.......a single target could not have multiple instances on them, regardless of what the source was.
Has anyone tested this recently to see if that changed? |
I just tested this using the Power Analyzer Mark III on some monsters in PI it reports -40 Res from Self and when Thorny attacks it shows -20 from Achilles Heel. This debuff is in addition to Freezing Rain which shows up -30 a pop; -60 when its stacked.
I'll try to take some screen-shots once I figure out how to get the UI to show up in them.
Bottom line: it still works (as far as I can tell)
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To take a screenshot with the UI up:|
Originally Posted by saltyhero13
I just tested this using the Power Analyzer Mark III on some monsters in PI it reports -40 Res from Self and when Thorny attacks it shows -20 from Achilles Heel. This debuff is in addition to Freezing Rain which shows up -30 a pop; -60 when its stacked. I'll try to take some screen-shots once I figure out how to get the UI to show up in them. Bottom line: it still works (as far as I can tell) |
Either use the Print Screen button to copy and then paste into an image program, or use the screenshotui slash command (/screenshotui 1 to turn on UI, /screenshotui 0 to turn off UI).
What I'd like to see in the screenshot is two or more instances of Achilles Heel affecting a single target at the same time.
I don't currently have 2 Achilles Heel procs on my Plant/Storm but I do on my Ninja/Storm.
http://www.wegame.com/view/screensho...6-13jpg/sizes/
You can see in that screenshot that the proc fired from both of my Jounin and Freezing Rain and there is only one instance of the Achilles Heel power.
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I am disappointed but this is indeed how it works now. Only one Achilles Debuff at any given time. Looks like the multiple application of Achilles was not WAI and was fixed to prevent exploitation.|
Originally Posted by brophog02
Actually, the way it did work was it didn't matter if it was from 3 different PEOPLE.......a single target could not have multiple instances on them, regardless of what the source was.
Has anyone tested this recently to see if that changed? |
Re-tested on a Monster in PI....I didnt expect them to have a native weakness which was the -40 res from Self I reported earlier. The only thing I could tell that stacked was Freezing Rains debuff that fluctuated from -60 to -30 and back as I double stacked. Looking at the Pet Heal Channel I could see when the proc triggered and the -20 res was reported as Achilles Heel.
brophog it sounds like you are familiar with how the proc works in its current state. Do you know if a second application resets the duration timer on the debuff, or is there a cooldown period similar to the Force Feedback proc? I had a really hard time keeping the buff up.
The good news is that it looks like it is still an unresistable debuff at least.
Thanks for the heads up.
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I'm pretty sure it just resets the timer when another instance goes off. I haven't sat down with a stopwatch or anything, but I'm reasonably certain on that. |
Originally Posted by saltyhero13
. Do you know if a second application resets the duration timer on the debuff, or is there a cooldown period similar to the Force Feedback proc? I had a really hard time keeping the buff up.
The good news is that it looks like it is still an unresistable debuff at least. Thanks for the heads up. |
On that Force Feedback proc:
I had a similar conversation to ours several months back, and that time I was wrong.......they had changed the force feedback proc. The Force Feedback proc no longer has that suppression attached to it.
((It's almost a full time job keeping up with these procs, isn't it?))
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No kidding. I remember when Merc MMs capitalized on the Achilles proc by slotting it in all three pets. Anyway thanks for the scoop!|
Originally Posted by brophog02
I'm pretty sure it just resets the timer when another instance goes off. I haven't sat down with a stopwatch or anything, but I'm reasonably certain on that.
On that Force Feedback proc: I had a similar conversation to ours several months back, and that time I was wrong.......they had changed the force feedback proc. The Force Feedback proc no longer has that suppression attached to it. ((It's almost a full time job keeping up with these procs, isn't it?)) |
In regards to the Force Feedback proc post..OMG the guy reporting perma hasten with 85% global recharge..that's sick.
Thats great news! Thanks for sharing this.
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My Energy Blaster only has 50-60% global recharge and if I can move fast enough attacking hazard zone sized spawns I'm within a second or two of perma-hasten with a Force Feedback in the each AOE power. |
Originally Posted by saltyhero13
In regards to the Force Feedback proc post..OMG the guy reporting perma hasten with 85% global recharge..that's sick. Thats great news! Thanks for sharing this. |
It's definitely handy, particularly for the mitigation in certain team situations..........it makes that chance for knockback far more reliable because you can cycle the powers fast enough that pretty much everything can stay down. (They really should make those two powers 100% knockback, the way similar AOE powers are in other sets, but that's a post for another occasion.) With those and the cone from the Apps I have a full AOE chain with three powers, with four of them consistently fitting in the time frame of Aim/Build Up and 5 of them just fitting in the frame of one of those buffs, if I execute everything in a certain order.
Yeah, it's noticeable, to say the least. If more sets had multiple knockback AOE damage powers, it would be on the verge of broken. I'm not sure it isn't already, though most people have a far higher threshold for the term than I do.
Plant/Storm can certainly slot several, but I'm not sure how reliable some of them would be. Creepers can slot the Force Feedback proc, but with IOs working so oddly in that power I have no idea how effective it would be. I've never needed more recharge on a Plant/Storm mostly because the combination has the benefit of using the cheapest purple sets in the games with effects such as Sleeps, Confuses, Immobs, Stuns, and Holds.
There's 5 sets without even touching the far more expensive damage purples. One of the many great aspects of this combination.
I agree with Milady on this..........I use the Fly Trap more as another means of control as a distraction. On teams I don't need it for the damage, and usually won't even summon it on a team. Solo it is nice, and I keep it 4 slotted with Expedient Reinforcement.
For Achilles Heel, I like it better on Tornado than the Fly Trap. I mostly need it for hard targets and with enough recharge I can keep Tornado stacked and it can't die! Something like an AV can kill those controller pets pretty quick. Tornado is set and forget.
For the OP, just frankenslot the Fly Trap for now, making sure its damage and accuracy are sufficient. When soloing, until you get the rest of your powers, solo on larger spawns with a lower difficulty rather than the other way around. Turn bosses off if necessary. Damage should not be a big issue on teams.
Just have a quick question. Is it worth the slot investment to add Shield Breaker, Touch of Lady Grey and/or Achilles' Heel procs to Fly Trap for extra damage? I've been considering it, but want opinions before deciding. I've been leveling my Plant/Storm again and thought it might be a good way to get some extra damage while I move towards Tornado and Lightning Storm, as well as APP powers.