Black/White Drawf kheldian enemies and Black Scroption all use Taunt on players already. There may be others, but those are the ones I know offhand.
The problem is that in PvE, Taunt doesn't actually force the victim to target you. What it does is it drastically multiplies your Threat rating in the victim's target list... but players don't use a Threat rating priority list, they just target who they please. Against NPCs, Taunt is nigh-guaranteed to force the target to aggro on you, because the Taunt raises your Threat by so much. But that doesn't help when they use Taunt on us.
Edit:
[V_Arachnos.Black Scorpion.Taunt]: Looks like it hasn't been updated with the player Taunt to include the -range. So it really doesn't do anything.
And you know, I swear I've seen a Nictus dwarf-form use White/Black Dwarf Antagonize on me, but checking their power lists on CoD, they don't have it.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
But why can't they change it? If it hits you, you literally CAN'T target anything else for the duration.
I'd honestly like to see that in game.
Be well, people of CoH.
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stock code answer: Engine Does Not Work Like That|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
But why can't they change it? If it hits you, you literally CAN'T target anything else for the duration.
I'd honestly like to see that in game. |
That being said, larger dev staff, upcoming release, they just might have the developers to actually implement the ability for NPC's to "lock" player targeting. Would be... interesting...
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Counterpoint: Engine does work like that in PvP.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
stock code answer: Engine Does Not Work Like That
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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eh.... I'm pretty sure there's a difference between NPC's initiating target lock and players initiating targeting lock. The code that's in place to handle what a player does may not necessarily work when initiated from an NPC.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Counterpoint: Engine does work like that in PvP.
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I can see one potential problem... that of lack of resistance: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Taunt_%28Status_Effect%29
The basic problem that I see is that taunt implemented on NPC classes could, in-effect, permanently lock players out of being able to attack that enemy alone. Lets say you are fighting an EB, Monster, AV or a Hero with a large surrounding mob. If the Critter taunted you, you could be locked into only targeting that monster and be unable to deal with the surrounding mob.
I suspect adding a targeting-lock effect to players would require significant work under the hood to either add resistance values for the taunt effect, and ensure that players aren't perma-locked by the NPC critter.
I don't get why that would be a bad thing. Make the recharge time longer than the duration and you can still use AoEs to splash damage the surrounding spawn.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Counterpoint: Engine does work like that in PvP.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I don't get why that would be a bad thing. Make the recharge time longer than the duration and you can still use AoEs to splash damage the surrounding spawn.
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If it were ever implemented, it would have to be used very sparingly. It's one thing when you have the damage (a la BZB
) to just say "oh, you want to die first instead of third. Ok, then." It's another when you're a squishy that is going to be going down *fast* if you don't get the boss tied down, but something Sapper-level (and common) draws you away at the wrong time. (And since the devs would likely want this to remain some sort of threat, they'd probably do something *fun* (cough) like give them Arachnos-Widow-like mez resists.) Also, how would this affect toggles? I don't mean armor, I mean things like Rad toggles. Becoming the target of a taunt could absolutely neuter some powersets (given the love the AI has of running, as well.)
Would it give some variety? Yes. Would it be fun? In my book... it sounds like it'd be irritating more than anything. (I've also got its mirror image in mind, Placate - where "I'd like to attack you, since you're chasing me, but I can't." See also Bane Scout.)
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I'm not sure what you're saying? Hell, Assault gives Taunt (and Placate) resistance.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
I can see one potential problem... that of lack of resistance
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
You guys are talking like that sort of thing doesn't happen already. Both Succubus eneimes and Bane Spider Scouts already use placate which prevents you from targeting them altogether, yet that doesn't break the game. And I tell you, I've spend upwards of 10 seconds being unable to target the SOLE Succubus in the room while she tossed attacks at me.
Besides, it's already used sparingly. Only, like, two things in the whole game ever use it. It doesn't get more sparingly than that if you were counting Fire Extinguisher damage.
Personally, I'd love to see a few critters use Taunt effects, or at the very least I'd like to see the Taunts critters ALREADY USE actually do something. It doesn't have to be a 40 second taunt on a 10 second recharge, but just... SOMETHING.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I don't want the game treating me as if I was as dumb as the AI, thanks. Someone taunting me isn't going to make me act stupid like it does the enemy PCs.
I can act stupid all on my own, thankyouverymuch! 
Dec out.
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Bane Spider Scouts use placate. Thats a whole different ballpark from taunt. And it doesnt usually last long, as they tend to smack you with a Critical Hit a few seconds after.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
You guys are talking like that sort of thing doesn't happen already. Both Succubus eneimes and Bane Spider Scouts already use placate which prevents you from targeting them altogether, yet that doesn't break the game. And I tell you, I've spend upwards of 10 seconds being unable to target the SOLE Succubus in the room while she tossed attacks at me.
Besides, it's already used sparingly. Only, like, two things in the whole game ever use it. It doesn't get more sparingly than that if you were counting Fire Extinguisher damage. Personally, I'd love to see a few critters use Taunt effects, or at the very least I'd like to see the Taunts critters ALREADY USE actually do something. It doesn't have to be a 40 second taunt on a 10 second recharge, but just... SOMETHING. |
Succubi, on the other hand, are the ONLY enemy in game I know that has a similar effect to a taunt, in this case confuse. Even then, its hardly similar. But it IS interesting, whne suddenly you need to keep an eye on what your targetting. It doesnt last stupidly long (Unlike YOU, Night Widow Smoke Grenades!!
) so all it does is spice up a fight.Colour me interested.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I'd love to see more confuse or taunt-like effects in the game. Confusion from the Succubi is definitely interesting, to say the least. Nothing like getting hit by a confuse effect right before you cast Blizzard, causing a complete team wipe by self-kill. Oopsie!
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
First, I agree with Aett (any surprise there ) that I would like to see more of these effects in the game.
Quick question since I have not worked on designing custom mobs in AE in quite a while, but do any of the sets have taunt in them that you can add to a critter? At least it would show if that power works.
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I believe, that if any sets did have it, it would work just like the player version. Basically, it would do nothing, unless it had -range on it, at which point it would only do something to the ranged ATs, but they could still target anyone they liked.
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Originally Posted by PennyPA
First, I agree with Aett (any surprise there
) that I would like to see more of these effects in the game.Quick question since I have not worked on designing custom mobs in AE in quite a while, but do any of the sets have taunt in them that you can add to a critter? At least it would show if that power works. |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Last time I checked, the critter creator lacks taunts. It does have confuse though.|
Originally Posted by PennyPA
Quick question since I have not worked on designing custom mobs in AE in quite a while, but do any of the sets have taunt in them that you can add to a critter? At least it would show if that power works.
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I'd say that a few more enemies with taunt would spice things up and those that have it should gain the effects from the player versions.
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Sorry, Aett, I don't tend to list "Back off and stay out of the fight so you don't kill your teammates" as interesting, any more than, say, random targeting of all targetable objects (friend and foe) would be. |
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I'd love to see more confuse or taunt-like effects in the game. Confusion from the Succubi is definitely interesting, to say the least.
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I get hit with a confuse, I'm standing around doing nothing.
File under "not fun." (Cross reference to "Jack would call it fun.")
I do also agree with the "I don't want to be treated as being as dumb as the AI" sentiment. Someone yelling "Hey, your mama wears combat boots" at me is not going to make me suddenly ignore the high-threat target I'm dealing with *right now.* (And just imagine that taunt getting mixed with a "Stop X from escaping!" mission.)
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Well, for me, it would be, since it's one of the few times you actually need to pay attention to what is happening to you in the game. Most of the game is easy enough that you can just mash buttons if you want to. You won't be the most efficient doing that, but you can.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Sorry, Aett, I don't tend to list "Back off and stay out of the fight so you don't kill your teammates" as interesting, any more than, say, random targeting of all targetable objects (friend and foe) would be.
I get hit with a confuse, I'm standing around doing nothing. File under "not fun." (Cross reference to "Jack would call it fun.") I do also agree with the "I don't want to be treated as being as dumb as the AI" sentiment. Someone yelling "Hey, your mama wears combat boots" at me is not going to make me suddenly ignore the high-threat target I'm dealing with *right now.* (And just imagine that taunt getting mixed with a "Stop X from escaping!" mission.) |
Fighting Succubi is one of the few times I actually care about watching my status bar. I'm not saying make them pop up all over the place, but I think having a few more mob types that can do this would be fun.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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I disagree. I LOVED confuse effects when they were meaningful (i.e. lasted more than .1 of a second). One of the most fun things I've done, I think, is smacking a Stalker on my team with Seismic Smash. I couldn't quite kill him, but I came close |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Sorry, Aett, I don't tend to list "Back off and stay out of the fight so you don't kill your teammates" as interesting, any more than, say, random targeting of all targetable objects (friend and foe) would be.
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Back before, there was a legitimate danger to the effect. Now... Not so much. It may as well not even be there. The worst part of Succubus confuse is the fact that you can't hit them for the next ten seconds.Me, I'd rather have a bit of uncontrollable chaos here and there, even if it means getting wiped by a friends' Blizzard from time to time. Seriously, how many of you so much as suffered from Confuse even when it was at full strength? I actively tried to murder my team-mates and I couldn't do more than just scratch the surface.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I think my main concern is where they'd have the potential to pop up, quite honestly. (Again, see the "Stop X from escaping" example. Having it happen *there* would be like - is it Crimson? Don't recall - spawn 50 feet from the elevator. You see him, he runs, you lose almost before you can do anything.) |
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Well, for me, it would be, since it's one of the few times you actually need to pay attention to what is happening to you in the game. Most of the game is easy enough that you can just mash buttons if you want to. You won't be the most efficient doing that, but you can.
Fighting Succubi is one of the few times I actually care about watching my status bar. I'm not saying make them pop up all over the place, but I think having a few more mob types that can do this would be fun. |
I wouldn't mind having more... *interesting* things happen. Especially finding alternative, non-combat ways to get through missions (besides stealthing to a glowie,) or having interesting effects happen. This just hasn't really sold me as sounding fun, personally.
Well, it lends more weight to carrying Breakfrees. It seems a little broken when the only insps people seem to want to carry are purples and reds with the occasional green. Plus, taunts don't have to be designed to look like taunts as far as RP is concerned. Enemy "taunts" could come from a telepath or a mystic rune.
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Well, I'd hope that the Devs would be smart enough not to create missions of that type with whatever enemy groups they put this with. Because, I admit, that would be highly annoying.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I think my main concern is where they'd have the potential to pop up, quite honestly. (Again, see the "Stop X from escaping" example. Having it happen *there* would be like - is it Crimson? Don't recall - spawn 50 feet from the elevator. You see him, he runs, you lose almost before you can do anything.)
I wouldn't mind having more... *interesting* things happen. Especially finding alternative, non-combat ways to get through missions (besides stealthing to a glowie,) or having interesting effects happen. This just hasn't really sold me as sounding fun, personally. |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
So long as it's used sparingly and in a clever way, I don't see why some NPCs shouldn't get Taunt, and maybe some extra Confuse/Placate here and there. Sure, having an enemy taunt you away from the mission objective would suck, but so's getting caught by a patrol when collecting a glowie/fighting a boss or misfiring a power because your mouse overclicked the tray.
Perhaps for balance, it can be a real hit or miss power. Slap on a tohit check and give it a low chance (25%?) and no way for defense to block/dodge it, a long recharge so it's one-shot, short duration.. Doesn't have to be powerful, but it's still a little thing that'll be thrown in here and there.
I can see mostly bosses gaining the ability to taunt. Crey bosses in power armour, for instance, I can see them having Confront at the very least (They're in the heavy gear, so they'd effectively be the Tanker for Crey anyway). What about Malta? I can see a Gunslinger taunting/calling a player out, or how about Carnie Strongmen?
Placate and Confuse can be thrown onto Carnies too. Give Seneschals the ability to placate when low on health and Ring Mistress confuse (Ooh, World of Confusion?). How about the Freakshow or the Devouring Earth? Stunner Chief, Deathcap and Deathspore all given short duration ST confuses.
Could even make Arachnos more annoying and pass on an AoE taunt to the Crab Spider boss and Confuse to Fortunatas.
I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
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If and when they solve the bug where some enemies run all over the place for no apparent reason, sure.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Well, I'd hope that the Devs would be smart enough not to create missions of that type with whatever enemy groups they put this with. Because, I admit, that would be highly annoying.
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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I'd like to see NPCs taunting, but I'd want to see it in an enemy group that is built with one or more of the mobs having taunt or would rather benefit from it. The best existing group I can think having this would be Cimeroran Traitors. They have one minion, the Immunes Surgeon, that can make a huge difference but is defenseless and tends to get targeted and killed first. Hence, the Praefectus, the bosses, could have Confront/Taunt so they could protect the Surgeons.
AVs could also perhaps taunt you off of their ambush mobs. Or Rommulus taunting you away from beating on his Nictus pets.
I'd rather not see a poor use of it, like a common-spawning minion using an AoE taunt and then phase shift while a high damage boss has free reign of butt-kicking on everyone. Or just throwing it in to existing enemy groups "just to have it".
It seems like EVERY enemy has a ranged attack, and a lot of them are pretty stupid. Why not let enemies taunt players? It could have the same effects as a player taunt... you can only hit THAT enemy, and your range is reduced, possibly to melee range.