Does the Market suck this bad? Say it ain't so!
By
AgentMountaineer,
Posted on: 2010-06-17 21:05 in The Market and Inventions
Quote:
Nonsense comment. I made no such implication. Character building is as much a part of the game as seeing content.
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
1) what missions, what story arcs, what TFs can you not do without purples?
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Quote:
No, as stated already, I find both laborious.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
So you don't see spending hours clearing identical piles of enemies off the same map over and over and over as being tedious, but spending ten or fifteen minutes every few days tending market bids is?
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Did people on this board really not learn about comparisons in school? The big wide alligator mouth eats the bigger number and the little pointy fish mouth eats the smaller number - only the relative values matter. It's not that hard a concept to grasp. Getting a prostate exam is also more pleasant than getting a catheter inserted - doesn't mean I have to enjoy either.
I already place everything on the market for 1 and bid the highest I would be willing to pay. I don't see a way to minimize market time more than that, and it's already orders of magnitude more time that I would like to spend in the market.
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if I were to whine about being "locked out" of leveling because I preferred spending my time at the market farming inf to defeating enemies for exp, I would rightly be ridiculed.
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Originally Posted by rsclark
Nonsense comment. I made no such implication. Character building is as much a part of the game as seeing content.
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Here's how I see cost and returns. Costs are my best estimates for a character in the high 30s.
Level 0 - SO's
Baseline performance,
+0% effective, costs 1 million.
Level 1 - Frankenslotting
Use double and triple IOs to improve the stats for that power. eg swap a Acc So and Dam SO for two Acc/Dams to get +40-something pwercent to each instead of +33%. Swap for two Acc/Dam?Ends to get a free end reduction IO.
+35% effective, costs 5 million
Level 2 - Cheap sets
Thunderstrike, Crushing Impact, Doctored Wounds, Red Fortune, Aegis. All these sets give the benfits of Frankenslotting and add some nice set bonuses. Suddenly, 1 in 5 ranegd attacks bounce off you, and you can start hitting reliably with temporary powers and so on.
+45% effective, costs 15 million
Level 3 - Expensive sets
Basilisks's Gaze, Positron's Blast, Guassian's Fire Control, Kinetic Combat, KB protection
These sets give very good bonuses too, but are less common, and require some forwards planning and money to obtain. Perma-dom's and soft-capped non-SR builds live here.
+60% effectiveness, costs 100 million
Level 4 - Purple (for the 50s) and uniques
KB Protection, Stealth IOs, LotG recharge, Steadfast IO, +Recovery IOs
You really start to feel the power, eg Regen Aura is up more than its down.
+75% effective, costs 1 billion
Numbers are made up and probably hideously out of date, and vary red/blue side.
The point is, the biggest jump is from Sos to frankenslotting, and thats the cheapest. From there on the curve is exponential. Each level adds maybe 10% efficiency while costing ten times as much as the previous one. Its a perfect set up in my opinion, that appeals to both the casual and hardcore player. There's always a new level within reach, you cant have it right now, but its achievable if you plan for it.
DrMike: I actually researched something [which may have been a corner case] and found that a multibillion, truly deeply purpled out, build was appallingly effective- maybe twice the DPS, on top of dramatically more survivability, as anything you could put on a level 49 character.
I did that research because I wanted to say "You get most of the benefit from the first 10 million". Annoyingly, that's not true. You get most of the benefit going from 500 million to 5 billion [or whatever the prices are these days.]
rsclark:
Quote:
I don't see how you can desire to participate in building and not desire to participate in buying. They're very, very much part of the same process to me. "I like eating, but I don't like chewing." Also... orders of magnitude? Like hundreds, or thousands? Just to give a grade school analogy, a factor of a hundred is the difference between an hour and thirty seconds, or thirty seconds and the "One Miss-" part of saying "One Mississippi". A factor of a thousand is the difference between an hour and "Oh, say can you see". A factor of ten thousand is roughly the difference between an hour and a year. | I already place everything on the market for 1 and bid the highest I would be willing to pay. I don't see a way to minimize market time more than that, and it's already orders of magnitude more time that I would like to spend in the market. |
I somehow don't imagine you spend a thousand times more time at the market than you do, say, sorting your inspirations.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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You can sell enhancements in a stack now...cool.. didnt know that... |
Originally Posted by Reptlbrain
Another thread on this right now--with FREEEEE in the title.
Short version: Diverse stock unless the item moves a lot per day. (For small, but reliable potatoes, you can nab 10 common recipe acc/dmg/rech/end often for 1000 infl apiece, then grab the common salvage in stacks of ten for the same price--or cheaper. Craft, sell in a stack--this preserves market spaces--and you can easily make a million or three with a stack of ten.) |
edit: oh i see... i didnt think you could
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Wow. That's a surprising result.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
DrMike: I actually researched something [which may have been a corner case] and found that a multibillion, truly deeply purpled out, build was appallingly effective- maybe twice the DPS, on top of dramatically more survivability, as anything you could put on a level 49 character.
I did that research because I wanted to say "You get most of the benefit from the first 10 million". Annoyingly, that's not true. You get most of the benefit going from 500 million to 5 billion [or whatever the prices are these days.] |
I guess a lot of it comes down to how valuable Recharge is for your powersets. Accuracy and Recovery kind of cap out, Recharge never quite does, and often hits milestones like perma-dom, perma-Hasten or perma-Phantom Army that transform a high end build.
My only purpled out character is a Grav/Empath/PSi Controller, for whom Recharge means a massive deal - more uptime for auras, mez protection and faster recharging controls.
The other character I looked at purpling was a MA/SR Stalker, and immediatley decided not to bother, since Hecatomb is about the only applicable purple set going. My main speedbump is Hide resetting rather than any power recharge.
What powersets was this on, Fulmens, where you doubled your power?
Looking at what I actually wrote, I overedited into meaninglessness. It was not "twice the DPS of anything you could put on a level 49 character." It was meant to say something like "more than twice the DPS of an SO'd out character and a lot more than anything you could put on a level 49 character."
The actual character was a Katana/something scrapper, Regen I think. You have a fast-activating attack that can take a -resistance proc, you can double-stack Divine Avalanche and cap your defense, you have a tight attack chain, and purple procs produce a surprising amount of extra damage.
Exact quote from Werner (this was back before the forum reshuffle so it was hard to find):
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OK, my cost no object DPS build does 244 DPS. My basic cheapo set build with no global recharge does 140 DPS. My SO build does 130 DPS. |
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
I'm a pretty casual player, but I've managed to get at least three of my level 50s to 1bil each in inf by playing the game and spending maybe 5-10 minutes a play session at the market.
On my lat lvl 50, I got him up to 1 billion at lvl 48, AND I'd IO'ed him out along the way (Numina +regen/recovery in health, PS +end in stamina, LotG +rchg, etc.) Several powers were frankenslotted w/ 2 decimations, one being the hold proc and 4 thunderstrikes...
It's hard NOT to make influence/infamy in the game, really. If you want to be able to make a LOT of money with little effort, play the market. The tricky part is spending some time figuring out what you can either flip for a profit or what recipes sell cheap, but whose crafted enhancements sell for proportionately more (weighing in the cost of salvage).
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Which plan is that? What would you roll?
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
if you follow my MA farming plan you'll be making 100-200+ per hour.
=P Running straight missions, no way on earth barring a super lucky drop. |
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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step 1: set for +0/x8|
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
Which plan is that? What would you roll?
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step 2: find a map you like full of enemies you like
step 3: cap your tickets (takes my ar/dev blaster 20-30 minutes, the Goat somewhat less).
step 4: roll them all Bronze level 35-39
step 5: delete the garbage & craft the 'good' ones for huge profits, I've never made less than 50 million on a run.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
Cool. |
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Looking at what I actually wrote, I overedited into meaninglessness. It was not "twice the DPS of anything you could put on a level 49 character." It was meant to say something like "more than twice the DPS of an SO'd out character and a lot more than anything you could put on a level 49 character."
The actual character was a Katana/something scrapper, Regen I think. You have a fast-activating attack that can take a -resistance proc, you can double-stack Divine Avalanche and cap your defense, you have a tight attack chain, and purple procs produce a surprising amount of extra damage. Exact quote from Werner (this was back before the forum reshuffle so it was hard to find): |
I'll have to have another look at my Stalker. I hadn't done the simple maths before, but since purple procs do 50% extra damage and proc 1/3 instead of 1/5 of the time they're over twice as good as normal damage procs.
Werner's quote misses out on the all-important non-purple global recharge though.
What I found when looking at purpling out characters was that rather than a 10% bonus to recharge, a purple set often just gives 3.75% improvement, since there's a 6.25% alternative already slotted.
Absolute Amazement - Stupefy.
Unbreakable Constraint - Basilisk's Gaze (for a 2.5% improvement here and one less slot!)
Apoclaypse - Decimation.
I dunno if LotG's should count as 'purples' since they're in the same price range. Whatever, they're Class4 100mill "unobtainables" for the purpose of my original post.
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That's much like what I do, but my results have been less.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
step 1: set for +0/x8
step 2: find a map you like full of enemies you like step 3: cap your tickets (takes my ar/dev blaster 20-30 minutes, the Goat somewhat less). step 4: roll them all Bronze level 35-39 step 5: delete the garbage & craft the 'good' ones for huge profits, I've never made less than 50 million on a run. |
How many tickets do you usually get at the ticket cap? I get about 500-600, or 8-10 rolls.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
Quote:
The ticket cap is 1500/mish, so if you're running a click glowy and end it sort of mission, you should fight til you have 700 something tix, then click the glowy.
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Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
That's much like what I do, but my results have been less.
How many tickets do you usually get at the ticket cap? I get about 500-600, or 8-10 rolls. |
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Is this with a particularly big map? The 'save devs' hall of fame arc has about a 500 cap.
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Originally Posted by Reptlbrain
The ticket cap is 1500/mish, so if you're running a click glowy and end it sort of mission, you should fight til you have 700 something tix, then click the glowy.
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A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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1.) As far as building influence goes, you could do worse than just listing every common and uncommon salvage for 5 influence and letting the market figure things out for you. Sometimes things will sell for less, I find that to be easier than constantly looking things up. You can do the same thing with recipes or rare salvage, but its probably worth looking them up for your own education, if nothing else. There are ways to make lots of influence by purely buying and selling on the market, but unless that interests you, that isn't a requirement to building up a decent nest egg.|
Originally Posted by Tongz
It looks like there IS a middle ground between "I have no IO's because I don't have 50 hours a week to play" and "I want all my IO's for free." I didn't know that. I spent a few hours around here reading last night, and got the impression that having IO's sucked up a lot more time than many of you are portraying here. (Which I'm thankful for.) I'm not saying I want the "perfect" purpled-out build... just that it'd be nice to take advantage of set bonuses and do decent damage/control/whatever. (i.e. some global recharge on my warshade).
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2.) Massive AOE can generate influence and stuff to sell on the market really efficiently, but playing pretty much any content that you enjoy will get you goodies, too. TFs are good, but even if you don't have a lot of time, the Mission Architect system can be a good short time/solo thing. The two areas that folks seem to enjoy random rolling for with Mission Architect tickets are the bronze level 10-14 range and the bronze level 35-39 range.
3.) Since you're coming from WOW, perhaps you could think of doing TFs like doing heroic dungeons for badges. Ever TF gives a certain amount of merits, and you can save up merits and get recipes. If you do all the Freedom Phalanx TFs, I believe that will give you over 220 merits . . . more than enough for any non-purple IO recipe, or enough to get 11 random rolls (in other words, you'd have a chance to get the exact recipe you wanted, plus 10 others which you could sell to buy other stuff). You can get merits from doing story arcs too, so even if you can't spare the 1-2 hours for a TF, you aren't shut out.
4.) You *are* right that the market and IOs have a learning curve to them . . . it takes a little bit of a buy-in in order to get a handle on them. But for a person who cares enough to read message boards and ask a few intelligent questions, it isn't a huge chunk of time. It takes some willingness to experiment and make a few mistakes, but the learning curve isn't super-steep.
You might want to run your blaster through some Mission Architect content, build up a couple of thousand tickets, and then do some bronze level 35-39 rolls. There's plenty of good stuff in that range. Save what you can use, sell the rest, profit. If you stick to some of the more meat-and-potatoes IO sets, you can get some solid bonuses w/o breaking the bank.
Ice blasters earn 15 million/hr?
Probably more, just to make certain I took mine out for a 20 minute spin.
Playing in SG Mode Start: 1958194816 Finish: 1959844992 Line 168: 06-19-2010 21:48:47 You received Sturdy. Line 254: 06-19-2010 21:48:58 You received Pneumatic Piston. Line 536: 06-19-2010 21:50:06 You received Hydraulic Piston. Line 555: 06-19-2010 21:50:06 You received Insight. Line 565: 06-19-2010 21:50:06 You received Gamma Particle Irradiation. Line 578: 06-19-2010 21:50:10 You received Temporal Analyzer. Line 678: 06-19-2010 21:50:39 You received Insight. Line 846: 06-19-2010 21:51:11 You received Invention: Range (Recipe). Line 904: 06-19-2010 21:51:40 You received Sturdy. Line 975: 06-19-2010 21:51:49 You received Focused Rage. Line 1059: 06-19-2010 21:52:01 You received Luck. Line 1107: 06-19-2010 21:52:07 You received Dramatic Improvement. Line 1132: 06-19-2010 21:52:11 You received Insight. Line 1163: 06-19-2010 21:52:16 You received Take a Breather. Line 1246: 06-19-2010 21:52:28 You received Luck. Line 1273: 06-19-2010 21:52:33 You received Respite. Line 1330: 06-19-2010 21:52:49 You received Take a Breather. Line 1339: 06-19-2010 21:52:49 You received Focused Rage. Line 1344: 06-19-2010 21:52:49 You received Enrage. Line 1348: 06-19-2010 21:52:49 You received Invention: Resist Damage (Recipe). Line 1368: 06-19-2010 21:52:53 You received Luck. Line 1373: 06-19-2010 21:52:53 You received Insight. Line 1374: 06-19-2010 21:52:53 You received Temporal Analyzer. Line 1506: 06-19-2010 21:53:29 You received Keen Insight. Line 1517: 06-19-2010 21:53:29 You received Focused Rage. Line 1535: 06-19-2010 21:53:31 You received Insight. Line 1536: 06-19-2010 21:53:31 You received Ruby. Line 1541: 06-19-2010 21:53:31 You received Luck. Line 1542: 06-19-2010 21:53:31 You received Mathematic Proof. Line 1555: 06-19-2010 21:53:31 You received Spirit Thorn. Line 1566: 06-19-2010 21:53:33 You received Rikti Alloy. Line 1618: 06-19-2010 21:53:56 You received Invention: Damage (Recipe). Line 1627: 06-19-2010 21:53:56 You received Hydraulic Piston. Line 1634: 06-19-2010 21:53:56 You received Catch a Breath. Line 1654: 06-19-2010 21:53:59 You received Catch a Breath. Line 1659: 06-19-2010 21:53:59 You received Insight. Line 1664: 06-19-2010 21:53:59 You received Take a Breather. Line 1679: 06-19-2010 21:54:00 You received Hydraulic Piston. Line 1700: 06-19-2010 21:54:03 You received Exploit Weakness: Dam/Range (Recipe). Line 1758: 06-19-2010 21:54:28 You received Enrage. Line 1781: 06-19-2010 21:54:28 You received Respite. Line 1788: 06-19-2010 21:54:28 You received Respite. Line 1793: 06-19-2010 21:54:28 You received Luck. Line 1797: 06-19-2010 21:54:28 You received Silver. Line 1798: 06-19-2010 21:54:28 You received Invention: Recharge Red. (Recipe). Line 1894: 06-19-2010 21:54:39 You received Luck. Line 2091: 06-19-2010 21:55:02 You received Catch a Breath. Line 2095: 06-19-2010 21:55:02 You received Demonic Threat Report. Line 2105: 06-19-2010 21:55:02 You received Luck. Line 2118: 06-19-2010 21:55:03 You received Take a Breather. Line 2119: 06-19-2010 21:55:03 You received Sapphire. Line 2213: 06-19-2010 21:55:17 You received Insight. Line 2293: 06-19-2010 21:55:29 You received Keen Insight. Line 2294: 06-19-2010 21:55:29 You received Crushing Impact: Acc/Dam (Recipe). Line 2389: 06-19-2010 21:55:57 You received Rugged. Line 2393: 06-19-2010 21:55:57 You received Polonium Irradiation. Line 2405: 06-19-2010 21:55:58 You received Focused Rage. Line 2406: 06-19-2010 21:55:58 You received Mathematic Proof. Line 2412: 06-19-2010 21:55:58 You received Respite. Line 2553: 06-19-2010 21:56:51 You received Chaos Theorem. Line 2557: 06-19-2010 21:56:51 You received Sturdy. Line 2567: 06-19-2010 21:56:51 You received Insight. Line 2571: 06-19-2010 21:56:51 You received Ruby. Line 2603: 06-19-2010 21:56:54 You received Break Free. Line 2608: 06-19-2010 21:56:54 You received Catch a Breath. Line 2613: 06-19-2010 21:56:54 You received Focused Rage. Line 2656: 06-19-2010 21:57:01 You received Dramatic Improvement. Line 2681: 06-19-2010 21:57:08 You received Insight. Line 2730: 06-19-2010 21:57:32 You received Fortune. Line 2735: 06-19-2010 21:57:32 You received Focused Rage. Line 2749: 06-19-2010 21:57:32 You received Keen Insight. Line 2791: 06-19-2010 21:57:36 You received Ceramic Armor Plate. Line 2873: 06-19-2010 21:57:51 You received Invention: Defense DeBuff (Recipe). Line 3057: 06-19-2010 21:58:29 You received Catch a Breath. Line 3058: 06-19-2010 21:58:29 You received Mathematic Proof. Line 3226: 06-19-2010 21:59:07 You received Insight. Line 3239: 06-19-2010 21:59:07 You received Insight. Line 3273: 06-19-2010 21:59:08 You received Ruby. Line 3340: 06-19-2010 21:59:22 You received Luck. Line 3408: 06-19-2010 21:59:42 You received Enrage. Line 3447: 06-19-2010 21:59:45 You received Insight. Line 3453: 06-19-2010 21:59:45 You received Dramatic Improvement. Line 3517: 06-19-2010 21:59:55 You received Catch a Breath. Line 3518: 06-19-2010 21:59:55 You received Temporary Power: Gabriel's Hammer. Line 3624: 06-19-2010 22:00:31 You received Take a Breather. Line 3630: 06-19-2010 22:00:32 You received Enrage. Line 3631: 06-19-2010 22:00:32 You received Mathematic Proof. Line 3715: 06-19-2010 22:00:44 You received Keen Insight. Line 3799: 06-19-2010 22:00:55 You received Prophecy. Line 3812: 06-19-2010 22:00:56 You received Enrage. Line 3982: 06-19-2010 22:01:29 You received Energy Weapon. Line 3990: 06-19-2010 22:01:30 You received Regenerating Flesh. Line 4003: 06-19-2010 22:01:30 You received Temporal Analyzer. Line 4107: 06-19-2010 22:01:47 You received Invention: Range (Recipe). Line 4178: 06-19-2010 22:02:06 You received Respite. Line 4185: 06-19-2010 22:02:06 You received Respite. Line 4204: 06-19-2010 22:02:07 You received Prophecy. Line 4233: 06-19-2010 22:02:12 You received Invention: Snare Duration (Recipe). Line 4282: 06-19-2010 22:02:28 You received Demonic Threat Report. Line 4340: 06-19-2010 22:02:51 You received Focused Rage. Line 4341: 06-19-2010 22:02:51 You received Sapphire. Line 4345: 06-19-2010 22:02:51 You received Catch a Breath. Line 4438: 06-19-2010 22:03:05 You received Enrage. Line 4508: 06-19-2010 22:03:14 You received Keen Insight. Line 4550: 06-19-2010 22:03:20 You received Luck. Line 4551: 06-19-2010 22:03:20 You received Invention: Sleep Duration (Recipe). Line 4710: 06-19-2010 22:04:03 You received Take a Breather. Line 4717: 06-19-2010 22:04:03 You received Insight. Line 4893: 06-19-2010 22:04:36 You received Dramatic Improvement. Line 4945: 06-19-2010 22:05:05 You received Insight. Line 4953: 06-19-2010 22:05:05 You received Sturdy. Line 4954: 06-19-2010 22:05:05 You received Invention: Hold Duration (Recipe). Line 4958: 06-19-2010 22:05:05 You received Rugged. Line 4963: 06-19-2010 22:05:05 You received Sturdy. Line 5014: 06-19-2010 22:05:14 You received Spirit Thorn. Line 5196: 06-19-2010 22:05:51 You received Insight.When you toss in the fact you can also get purple drops and much better recipes as you work through, its pretty easy
Oh and just for the fun of it.