Does the Market suck this bad? Say it ain't so!


AgentMountaineer

 

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Originally Posted by Emberly View Post
Where did you learn that the way to solicit help is to post backhanded, passive-aggressive sniping at the community trying to help you?
It's called defending myself and clarifying. You learn it in kindergarten. (For example, the adjectives in YOUR accusation don't even apply properly. There was nothing "passive-agressive" about what I said. Someone mentioned that I was being "gimme," and I said I wasn't. It's pretty straightforward, actually, and not passive-agressive at all.)

Since the thread has derailed anyway, I would like to sincerely thank all of you who've taken the time to answer my questions in a helpful manner. From this thread and the guides, I've received the help I needed to get me out of the poorhouse. (I think).

EDIT: One last question, though. I'm trying the "buy recipes/make IO's/sell IO" tactic. To make money, do you typically just nab 5 or 10 of the same recipe and put the IO's up, or do you keep a fairly diverse stock? Why?


 

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Originally Posted by Tongz View Post

EDIT: One last question, though. I'm trying the "buy recipes/make IO's/sell IO" tactic. To make money, do you typically just nab 5 or 10 of the same recipe and put the IO's up, or do you keep a fairly diverse stock? Why?
Another thread on this right now--with FREEEEE in the title.

Short version: Diverse stock unless the item moves a lot per day. (For small, but reliable potatoes, you can nab 10 common recipe acc/dmg/rech/end often for 1000 infl apiece, then grab the common salvage in stacks of ten for the same price--or cheaper. Craft, sell in a stack--this preserves market spaces--and you can easily make a million or three with a stack of ten.)


 

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Originally Posted by Reptlbrain View Post
Another thread on this right now--with FREEEEE in the title.

Short version: Diverse stock unless the item moves a lot per day. (For small, but reliable potatoes, you can nab 10 common recipe acc/dmg/rech/end often for 1000 infl apiece, then grab the common salvage in stacks of ten for the same price--or cheaper. Craft, sell in a stack--this preserves market spaces--and you can easily make a million or three with a stack of ten.)
an instructional in how to manipulate the market


 

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Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
2) Assuming, for a moment, that you do not want to farm and you do not want to play a current 50 and you do not want to marketeer, does that put you Straight Outta Luck? It does not, surprisingly. I don't know Mission Architect farming- that is what the Goat is eating, more power to him- but if you want to accumulate merits, I know a little about that.
If I could reliably depend on more than 20 minutes of straight gamplay at a sitting I'd be riding the TF merit train too.

But tickets aren't a bad consolation prize. =D


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

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Originally Posted by Tongz View Post
EDIT: One last question, though. I'm trying the "buy recipes/make IO's/sell IO" tactic. To make money, do you typically just nab 5 or 10 of the same recipe and put the IO's up, or do you keep a fairly diverse stock? Why?
I never get in too deep with any recipe unless it's basically free.
The market is full of other players looking for scores, and in the past I've had my dependable, lucrative niche get gobbled up overnight by rapacious competitors who don't mind narrow profit margins, sometimes leaving me with a bunch of unsalable junk in base storage.

If I'm buying recipes to craft and sell, I stick to a couple at a time and try to stick with very high profit items. I ran a gig last week where I bought 10 defense recipes for a few k, all the salvage for them for another few k, crafted the whole lot at once and sold them all for between 2-7 million.
It was astronomically profitable from a % standpoint, but I won't be repeating the experiment. I'd rather make the 60-odd million profit I earned there off one recipe even if it cost me a lot more to create.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

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Welcome back to the game Tongz and welcome to the market forums.


Its too bad you got such a poor reception with your first post. There are a fair number of hypersensitive people in this forum and it seems a few decided to target you. I gave what I could in rep and sorry it only took you from -3 to -2 but I am sure you will be in the green soon enough. Don't let em get to you they aren't representative of the overall population in the game or even the over all population on the boards.

Anyhow here's what help I can give you with your questions.

First you really shouldn't sweat the details of your build as you are leveling up. While you are leveling its the time to learn what your build can do and what you would like it to do. Take it as the opportunity to get to know where you need to improve and try to see where you want to go with it. Then when you are at 50 with the character you can do your ultimate build and with any luck and a lack of oopsies from the devs you will actually get to use it for awhile.

Crafting Common Enhancements can make some inf but its really slow inf. Typical profits from a common IO are a few hundred K per IO if its one that isn't selling below costs, you can only sell one per slot and it usually takes awhile for them to sell. There are people that will tell you to just list for 1 inf, don't do this unless you are willing get your stock sniped by someone who is bid creeping or you are close enough to break even that it won't hurt. Just to put things in perspective, Rare salvages are currently going for around 2-4 million per currently if you need to buy one that's going to be a fair chunk of commons you have to move.

Instead of crafting the commons, you might try bidding for stacks of 10 at very low prices. I just saw level 45 taunts going for 1K inf per, holds, damages, even accuracies can all be had very cheaply. This way you can can broaden your selection without the upfront costs of memorization.

Going further on that because of the nature of the market there is hardly anything that doesn't have a pretty good level of volatility. There are always people listing things for very low prices and you can likely pick up steals.

Best of luck with the game

And remember "Illegitimi non carborundum"


 

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Originally Posted by Fury Flechette View Post
OP please do not listen this guy unless you want your gaming experience to get remarkably dull.
Marketeering is duller than farming ever could be. I'm not even going to pretend that I understand economics well enough to say what effect marketeering has on the game for everyone else, but I do wish it were possible to just play the game and have the same opportunities that the market mini-game players have. I consider that a problem, but not one with an easy answer.


 

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Originally Posted by rsclark View Post
Marketeering is duller than farming ever could be. I'm not even going to pretend that I understand economics well enough to say what effect marketeering has on the game for everyone else, but I do wish it were possible to just play the game and have the same opportunities that the market mini-game players have. I consider that a problem, but not one with an easy answer.
The effect of proper marketeering is to normalize prices to a medium value.
Goat speaks the truth about AE tickets and how much they can turn over for you. Spend maybe 2 hours a week farming and you could earn a few hundred million influence easy by selling those drops in the market.

I, myself, jump knee deep into a given recipe/IO and craft 5-30 of them at a time. I do this because I know what I'm doing and rarely get burned these days ( because I've been doing this so long I can recognize when a niche is too high to bother with).

For someone new, I don't recommend getting more than 5 of an IO/recipe at a time just to avoid loosing investment capital at an early stage.


I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.

 

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Originally Posted by rsclark View Post
Marketeering is duller than farming ever could be. I'm not even going to pretend that I understand economics well enough to say what effect marketeering has on the game for everyone else, but I do wish it were possible to just play the game and have the same opportunities that the market mini-game players have. I consider that a problem, but not one with an easy answer.

You are the person so many on this forum claims doesn't exist and if you did would deserve to get the brown end of the stick. Not wanting to participate in the market is just as valid as the marketphiles love for it. Its really a shame that the only response to that idea on these boards is either to scream heretic, or find the nearest hole in the ground and stick their heads in it.


 

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Originally Posted by rsclark View Post
Marketeering is duller than farming ever could be.
I on the other hand enjoy both activities. =)

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....I do wish it were possible to just play the game and have the same opportunities that the market mini-game players have. I consider that a problem, but not one with an easy answer.
I'd like the same access to Pool C drops as the people who have the time to invest efficiently running TFs for merits do. But as they say, if wishes were horses we'd all have a Magic Pony for getting around town on.

In any case, all you need to do to earn billions is play the game and sell your drops. It will take you longer than a player who takes action to maximize earnings, but you'll get there.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

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Originally Posted by rsclark View Post
Marketeering is duller than farming ever could be. I'm not even going to pretend that I understand economics well enough to say what effect marketeering has on the game for everyone else, but I do wish it were possible to just play the game and have the same opportunities that the market mini-game players have. I consider that a problem, but not one with an easy answer.
I like to think that marketing is no duller than Windows Solitaire, which people STILL spend a lot of time playing.

However, you find it duller than farming could ever be. I can't argue that. Is 10 minutes of marketing more boring, for you, than 90 minutes of farming?

Cause that's how long I'd spend if I didn't like it- 10 minutes a day. I'd make at least as much as 90 minutes of farming. . .


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

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Originally Posted by rsclark View Post
Marketeering is duller than farming ever could be. I'm not even going to pretend that I understand economics well enough to say what effect marketeering has on the game for everyone else, but I do wish it were possible to just play the game and have the same opportunities that the market mini-game players have. I consider that a problem, but not one with an easy answer.
I've done both activities, and I find both tedious at times. However, with the market, I can spend about 20 minutes in setting up some transactions and go about doing other stuff. Farming requires that you actively engage in tedium - going over the same map over and over again - for hours.

I have some of the best farming characters influence can equip, with builds costing in the tens of billions, and farming to any excessive degree bores me.

They are both means to an end, except one requires constant vigilance, and the other works largely offline. Given the choice, I'd much rather choose the option that requires less involvement by far, and spend my actual gaming time on stuff that I find fun.


 

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Originally Posted by graystar_blaster View Post
more drivel snipped
The market is a tool like anything else. I see it no difference in using that than going into a mission, setting it to +2/x8/no bosses and then resetting after all the bad guys are dead. Talk about something that's working as "intended". Farming is far more likely considered an aberrant behavior than anything you do on the market.

There are also several ways to use the market to make profit. I don't price manipulate salvage or any other commodities because I find such efforts tedious. I'm mostly a crafter. Buy components low, craft them together for something the market wants and sell them a modest market. It's much more akin to a service model since often times I can easily sell the item lower than the buy-it-nao price and still make a good profit. The buyer saves and I make a profit. In fact, I'm very open as to my exact method and detail it into a guide so other people can do the same thing. However, it seems that you narrow mindedly list all of us as "dirt bags".

I really wonder why you engage in threads where your objective is simply to troll and not engage in legitimate debate. Your responses seem to be the equivalent saying 'your mom' because all you can do is respond in infantile all cap expositions. You are quite pitiful.


 

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Originally Posted by Lohenien View Post
The effect of proper marketeering is to normalize prices to a medium value.
Goat speaks the truth about AE tickets and how much they can turn over for you. Spend maybe 2 hours a week farming and you could earn a few hundred million influence easy by selling those drops in the market.
That's just selling what you farm - it doesn't require the monotony of marketeering.

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I, myself, jump knee deep into a given recipe/IO and craft 5-30 of them at a time. I do this because I know what I'm doing and rarely get burned these days ( because I've been doing this so long I can recognize when a niche is too high to bother with).

For someone new, I don't recommend getting more than 5 of an IO/recipe at a time just to avoid loosing investment capital at an early stage.
How does the ease with which something can be done affect how dull it is? Watching paint dry or grass grow are both extremely easy.

The way the game currently plays with respect to purple sets and the really high end enhancements would be the equivalent of requiring PVP in order to use the incarnate system, only with "PVP" replaced with playing the market. And for all this marketing to work requires a pretty big pool of people NOT playing the market. The effect of those two things combined is that there is a large pool of players for whom a segment of the game is cut off unless they want to participate in the silly side minigame.


 

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Originally Posted by Fury Flechette View Post
They are both means to an end, except one requires constant vigilance, and the other works largely offline. Given the choice, I'd much rather choose the option that requires less involvement by far, and spend my actual gaming time on stuff that I find fun.
I too was comparing two bad things - I just differ on which is worse. If given my choice, though, I would rather the fun parts and the rewarding parts be the same thing, so there was no need for making such a no win choice.


 

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Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
First you really shouldn't sweat the details of your build as you are leveling up. While you are leveling its the time to learn what your build can do and what you would like it to do.
Or--if you find it fun--you can make your character much stronger while leveling by frankenslotting or set IOing (harder because of fewer slots) as you go. This will also make you more effective as a soloer, if you want to solo, and thus a more effective earner.

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Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
Typical profits from a common IO are a few hundred K per IO if its one that isn't selling below costs, you can only sell one per slot and it usually takes awhile for them to sell. There are people that will tell you to just list for 1 inf,
Other than the typical profits line, which is correct, the rest of this is all wrong. You can sell stacks of 10 crafted IOs now, as long as they are the same type and level. It is, of course, most convenient to sell commons in stacks. It does not take them a while to sell, unless you're trying to sell something ridiculous like taunts (helpfully recommend by this poster!) or range IOs. H.E.A.R.D. mnemonic for the fastest moving, though you could probably easily guess this: Heal Endurance (Mod or Redux) Accuracy Recharge Damage. Think how many powers take just plain old recharge and nothing else. Scads of these sell every day. No one recommends you to list common IOs for 1 infl, on this board; that's nonsense. No one recommends to sell anything for 1 infl unless they're playing meta-games or trying to get sales badges. They say: sell for no less than you're willing to earn. If the cost of the recipe, salvage and crafting is 50,000, then sell it for 102,000 or something. You'll often find when you post a common for approximately 100k it'll still sell for 300k.

The tip I forgot is memorizing common IO recipes, which halves your crafting cost and gets rid of the cost of recipes entirely--for two to several recipes per badge. Check cohtitanwiki for details http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Memorization_Badges

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Rare salvages are currently going for around 2-4 million per currently if you need to buy one that's going to be a fair chunk of commons you have to move.
You do not need rare salvages to craft commons. You need rare salvages to craft almost every orange (and purple) recipe, and a handful of uncommon recipes. Finding loads of cheap recipes for a desirable set piece is usually a clue that the salvage is very expensive. (See Mako's Bite Damage/End.) These are usually not good craft-n-sell targets. Edit: misread the above sentence, but the advice still stands. 2 million infl is selling a single decent stack of commons.

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I just saw level 45 taunts going for 1K inf per
No wonder Another Fan is having difficulty moving his inventory.


 

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Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
Tongz said

... if I started a thread called "Does Tongz suck this bad? Say it ain't so" would you take that as a good, a bad, or a neutral statement?
Or, just off the top of my head, saying to a teammate, "Why did you pick a such a sorry powerset that contributes nothing to this team?"


 

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rsclark said

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The effect of those two things combined is that there is a large pool of players for whom a segment of the game is cut off unless they want to participate in the silly side minigame.
Two things:

1) what missions, what story arcs, what TFs can you not do without purples?
2) I musta got a lucky drop somewhere, because I've got a level 43 character with 600 million somewhere and all they did aside from straight play was cash in two or three TF's worth of merits when they turned 33. They were on teams the whole time and didn't bother marketing. "Play for merits" gets you a WHOLE lot of money and it's not a particularly off-brand style of play. If you don't like story arcs and you don't like farming and you don't like marketing... what do you like?


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

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Reading Disability ?

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Originally Posted by Reptlbrain View Post
Or--if you find it fun--you can make your character much stronger while leveling by frankenslotting or set IOing (harder because of fewer slots) as you go. This will also make you more effective as a soloer, if you want to solo, and thus a more effective earner.
VS

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The whole feeling of "I just enhanced my character, now watch me go into battle and show off!" can only be achieved through hours of crunching numbers and "working" the auction house to get inf. Once you MAKE enough inf to IO your character you get to spend even more hours painstakingly deciding how to slot your IOs so as to maximize every single little set bonus you can find.
You seem to have missed something.

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Other than the typical profits line, which is correct, the rest of this is all wrong. You can sell stacks of 10 crafted IOs now, as long as they are the same type and level. It is, of course, most convenient to sell commons in stacks.
You can ?? Really ???

Perhaps you mean buy not sell because otherwise you are mistaken. Placing multiple copies of an io into the market does not combine them into a stack and placing sell orders at identical pricing does not combine them. The only way you can do what you describe is with 10 slots. Which was the problem in the first place.


As to the rest well It is what it is.

Look at the numbers 15 slots, 13 available 2 used for salvage purchases. 200k per slot profit 2 days or more to turn over, or about 2.6 mil profit or considerably less than what you can make from about 10 minutes of just running missions.



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You do not need rare salvages to craft commons. You need rare salvages to craft almost every orange (and purple) recipe, and a handful of uncommon recipes. Finding loads of cheap recipes for a desirable set piece is usually a clue that the salvage is very expensive. (See Mako's Bite Damage/End.) These are usually not good craft-n-sell targets. Edit: misread the above sentence, but the advice still stands. 2 million infl is selling a single decent stack of commons.
No you don't. Of course I never claimed you did. The OP is trying to set IO out a character and that requires a considerable amount of rares. That whole reading comprehension thing again.


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No wonder Another Fan is having difficulty moving his inventory.
{Smiles}, what next 4 speed is going to lecture on the joys of salvage vending again ?

You too can make inf by vendoring salvage at a rate less than an emp defender makes running missions.


 

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Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
Perhaps you mean buy not sell because otherwise you are mistaken. Placing multiple copies of an io into the market does not combine them into a stack and placing sell orders at identical pricing does not combine them. The only way you can do what you describe is with 10 slots. Which was the problem in the first place.
You're right. I'm wrong on this. Still, if the level 50 is not fun to play, its slots can be earning in this easy fashion--craft & sell commons--if you don't mind checking them when you log in. For someone with as small a stash as the OP says--3 million--it's a cheap start to get a bigger bankroll if he doesn't want to play the 50. You are right in that he can earn faster by playing a high level character, as I pointed out in one of my earlier responses.

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2.6 mil profit or considerably less than what you can make from about 10 minutes of just running missions.
...
Ice blasters earn 15 million/hr?


 

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With three million, I'd go with a couple of popular yellow max-level IO's (the stereotypical ones being Thunderstrike, Crushing Impact and Doctored Wounds at level 50) which should make one to three million profit each, but I don't have any perspective on what the market is like if you're new to it. It may not be as obvious a starting place as I think. Three million becomes six becomes ten becomes fifteen, etc.


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

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Originally Posted by rsclark View Post
That's just selling what you farm - it doesn't require the monotony of marketeering.
So you don't see spending hours clearing identical piles of enemies off the same map over and over and over as being tedious, but spending ten or fifteen minutes every few days tending market bids is?

I enjoy both activities, but if I had to label one of them I'd choose map farming- it takes much longer and requires far more repetitive behavior than tending a market farm.


/also, for recent arrivals:

Another Fan isn't operating in good faith. His only purpose here is to spew the same line of gibberish that we've debunked dozens of times in the interest of fueling whatever fire happens to be burning at the moment. There's a word for it that we're not allowed to use here, but if you don't feed the thing with no name it will eventually go away.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

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Originally Posted by Reptlbrain View Post

Ice blasters earn 15 million/hr?
if you follow my MA farming plan you'll be making 100-200+ per hour.
=P

Running straight missions, no way on earth barring a super lucky drop.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

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Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
With three million, I'd go with a couple of popular yellow max-level IO's (the stereotypical ones being Thunderstrike, Crushing Impact and Doctored Wounds at level 50) which should make one to three million profit each, but I don't have any perspective on what the market is like if you're new to it. It may not be as obvious a starting place as I think. Three million becomes six becomes ten becomes fifteen, etc.
I can vouch for Thunderstrikes & Doctored Wounds. I've sold a metric ton of them during my recent vacation in MA. I'm socking away all my melee drops in base storage for the arrival of the tidal wave of new Kinetic Melee characters that GR will bring with it so I haven't sold any of my Crushing Impacts. Yet.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone