Wait... someone buys those?
*logs out by CH*
OK, that smartalec bit aside, in theory it's not a bad idea. But the questions of "what" and "how much" have to come up. Those people dropping two billion on an IO? Go browse the market forum. Some have multiple billions beyond that. Do we target them for these "things?" They're just going to make more inf to replace it - and those "things" would (in most instances) have to be *very* good at the prices that would make the top earners even bat an eyelash... which brings up balance with the rest of the game.
Again, I wouldn't argue with seeing more fixed-price items. I just don't think it'd have any real impact on the top prices.
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I agree. The motivation for such a change must be the items not thinking it will counter the over 2 billion value of PvP IOs (for one example).
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Again, I wouldn't argue with seeing more fixed-price items. I just don't think it'd have any real impact on the top prices.
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
My idea's motivation was mainly a way to start siphoning inf out of the system rather than just let it continue changing hands and accruing.
I'm not saying these fixed price items would have to cost billions or anything like that... depending on what they are the prices could vary... or scale with level or what not.
The idea though is that it can't just be some piddly thing that people would snub their noses at, so insanely expensive it isnt worth it to buy or so insanely cheap that any inf removed from the system is negligible.
I'm thinking price tags in the several hundred thousand to several million depending on what it is... like say for example... a scaling cost respec that is just a respec and not a recipe you can hand off to another toon... say at level 50 this respec costs a flat 10 million influence... to many folk that may not seem like a ton but it's still a sizable chunk of inf no longer circulating... if we had a decent sized selection of desirable things to buy at fixed prices it should create a steady flow of inf out of the system over time.
Maybe the selection could vary from time to time... maybe have limited stock items (though I'd advise such things be only usable by the purchasing account so someone couldnt just buy up all the stock and then try to resell at a mark up.)
Some creative thinking using fixed prices at the market could give us some much needed methods of siphoning inf out of the system.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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Respecs that sell at 100M on the market remove 10M from the system. Respecs frequently sell at that price right now. |
Originally Posted by Kyriani
I'm thinking price tags in the several hundred thousand to several million depending on what it is... like say for example... a scaling cost respec that is just a respec and not a recipe you can hand off to another toon... say at level 50 this respec costs a flat 10 million influence... to many folk that may not seem like a ton but it's still a sizable chunk of inf no longer circulating... if we had a decent sized selection of desirable things to buy at fixed prices it should create a steady flow of inf out of the system over time.
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I did some calculations some time ago. Redside market, purples alone, in 2 or 3 months, roughly 90 Billion Inf was removed from the system. Vast amounts of Inf are created and removed from the game every day. Prices on many expensive items have actually fallen recently. Prices have other items have risen, but not significantly.
There is a balance point where prices on the market cannot be supported by players income. At some point, the market fee eats up more Inf than is generated. Currently players are very close to that point. Prices are very close to stabilizing. Changes like: 1) doubling Inf earned by level 50s, 2) Patrol XP, 3) XP Curve, 4) Mission Architect, 5) difficulty settings, and other changes alter the amount of Inf players generate. So, assuming nothing like that occurs again (**rolls eyes**), prices will pretty much stay where they are... in general, ceteras paribus, etc. etc.
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In general, I like the idea.|
Originally Posted by Kyriani
I'm not saying these fixed price items would have to cost billions or anything like that... depending on what they are the prices could vary... or scale with level or what not.
The idea though is that it can't just be some piddly thing that people would snub their noses at, so insanely expensive it isnt worth it to buy or so insanely cheap that any inf removed from the system is negligible. |
But in this vein, I also am wondering (along with the usual PvP caveats) whether or not the system could provide certain highly desirable fixed-priced items that are only available to your faction as long as your faction is in control of specific PvP zones.
Mind you, those fixed-price items wouldn't have to be PvP-only items. Perhaps, (and I'm pulling this completely out of my rear) if your faction controls Bloody Bay, for example, your faction has access to IR Goggles, which can be used both in and out of PvP zones to detect stealthed characters or combat Blindness. Once the opposing faction gains control of Bloody Bay, however, you no longer have access to them, until you regain control.
It might help to inject some interest back into PvP, it might not. I'm just throwing it out there.
I don't have much to say here, other than that I'd really like it if we had Common Inventions enhancements available for fixed prices at the market.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Okay.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I don't have much to say here, other than that I'd really like it if we had Common Inventions enhancements available for fixed prices at the market.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I don't have much to say here, other than that I'd really like it if we had Common Inventions enhancements available for fixed prices at the market.
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Are you aware that common inventions recipes can be purchased at inventon work tables at fixed prices?
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I am aware. However, what I asked for is Common Inventions ENHANCEMENTS, which are not available for fixed prices. Furthermore, even though I could buy the recipes themselves off vendors, I cannot buy the salvage needed to make them, and with salvage prices as... Unreasonable as they are now, I end up spending more just for the salvage than I would for a ready-made enhancement off the Market.|
Originally Posted by Bocus_King
Are you aware that common inventions recipes can be purchased at inventon work tables at fixed prices?
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I just don't consider Commons to be loot, so their drop-limited/player-limited availability is probably one of THE largest irritations I have left in the game. I wouldn't mind paying exuberant prices for them, as long as I was guaranteed a steady supply and a non-fluctuating price.
But again, I didn't elaborate on this because I doubt anyone cares, and I really don't need to be told how easy they are to get off the Market.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I think it goes against a Crafting system to have the stuff you're supposed to be crafting simply available for purchase. Why would anyone craft them any more?
Dec out.
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Badges? Lower price? Isn't that why people craft them right now, as opposed to buying them off the Market? I mean, I can't have crafted more than ten enhancements in this past month, and I've kitted out a few characters in commons in that time.|
Originally Posted by Decorum
I think it goes against a Crafting system to have the stuff you're supposed to be crafting simply available for purchase. Why would anyone craft them any more?
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What I'm asking for is a higher-priced but stable alternative to the fluctuating Marker. Ideally, I'd still try to get them off the Market, but if I found that certain enhancements simply weren't being sold or that the salvage for them cost millions, I'd take the fixed-priced option.
Considering Common Inventions are "enhancements done right," it KILLS me that they're being presented as loot. Sets are what look should be like. Commons as loot just turns them into needless busywork.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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So you're irritated that something that was designed as loot is presented as loot? And that an intentionally supply-and-demand market system is fluctuating? And you view enhancements with special features such as not running down as "done right" instead of "done better"?
There are so many things you and I are never going to agree on, but variety of PoVs is what makes the boards interesting. 
Dec out.
How about fixed priced temp buffs akin to those available from base tables? Like a 5 to 15 min duration for powers that would give +res, +def, +to-hit, +HP, minor status protect or resist, slight boost to buff/ debuff/ control powers?
Theory would be you pay some NPC to cast it on you and it would be a complete inf sink but not game unbalancing. I would say they would have to be a lesser duration than the base temp powers though.
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I don't enjoy the fact that Commons were designed as loot. They're the answer to SOs for people who hate how the SO system is designed, and their actual final strength is not THAT much greater than SOs in general. They are, to my eyes at least, how enhancements should have been done from the get-go, hence enhancements done right. The only appeal SOs have right now over Inventions is the fact that they're cheaper and available from NPC vendors. Hence, again, enhancements done right.|
Originally Posted by Decorum
So you're irritated that something that was designed as loot is presented as loot? And that an intentionally supply-and-demand market system is fluctuating? And you view enhancements with special features such as not running down as "done right" instead of "done better"?
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You seem to read me as saying the system is not working as designed. It is. I just don't like how it was designed to work, and not wanting to give this exact explanation multiple times is why I tried to make a statement without having to explain myself.
I would prefer it if I could get ready-made Commons for a fixed price. That's all it comes down to.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I think its a great idea.
I had a similar thread here where a few ideas were kicked around.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=223894
Up above someone mentioned that respecs currently sell around 100mil and thus remove around 10 mill already... well thats fine and dandy... but imagine how much more FREQUENTLY 10 mill would be removed from the system if you could fixed price buy them for 10 million? The 100 mill pricetag can put some buyers off... a 10 million on the other hand would be something more folk would be willing to spend... and with it being at that lower price people would buy it more frequently thus removing more inf over time than leaving them as rare drops that many buyers would decide not to purchase because of the high price and thus slowing the removal of inf.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
Mmm
This is an interesting topic, for it addresses a means to actually remove larger amounts of influence off the world as opposed to 10% use tax. It also addresses from my perspective for a means to level the playing field from a PvP perspective between addicts and casual players.
I had in the past, advocated for all recipes and salvage to be available at the vendor at a price 10 times higher than what they pay if you were to turn in the recipe or salvage to them. Thus crafters and sellers of loot can keep their profits between the low cost sell to a vendor to a ten times the cost buy from a vendor. If one is impatient, the influence is spent at the vendor and removed from the game. If one negotiates through the market, then 10% is removed instead.
Hugs
Stormy
Perhaps the ten times the price, may not be just right, it may be 10 for white recipes, 20 for yellow, 30 for orange and 40 for purples...
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See I don't agree that Commons should be in a store. At that point they might as well be wiped out of existence and the only IOs that exist be set IOs.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I don't enjoy the fact that Commons were designed as loot. They're the answer to SOs for people who hate how the SO system is designed, and their actual final strength is not THAT much greater than SOs in general. They are, to my eyes at least, how enhancements should have been done from the get-go, hence enhancements done right. The only appeal SOs have right now over Inventions is the fact that they're cheaper and available from NPC vendors. Hence, again, enhancements done right.
You seem to read me as saying the system is not working as designed. It is. I just don't like how it was designed to work, and not wanting to give this exact explanation multiple times is why I tried to make a statement without having to explain myself. I would prefer it if I could get ready-made Commons for a fixed price. That's all it comes down to. |
The whole point of the invention system is that it's a CRAFTING system.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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While I understand your point it would throw a major monkeywrench into the Field Crafter.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I don't enjoy the fact that Commons were designed as loot. They're the answer to SOs for people who hate how the SO system is designed, and their actual final strength is not THAT much greater than SOs in general. They are, to my eyes at least, how enhancements should have been done from the get-go, hence enhancements done right. The only appeal SOs have right now over Inventions is the fact that they're cheaper and available from NPC vendors. Hence, again, enhancements done right.
You seem to read me as saying the system is not working as designed. It is. I just don't like how it was designed to work, and not wanting to give this exact explanation multiple times is why I tried to make a statement without having to explain myself. I would prefer it if I could get ready-made Commons for a fixed price. That's all it comes down to. |
It was my understanding due to "badgers" that common IOs can be scored cheaper than memorized crafting cost. Certainly someone ought to be selling them for less than the unmemorized cost.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Yeah, they are the only reason Commons are... Well, common. I don't think this will hold true forever, however. I fear the day when people get all their badges and the easy supply runs out.|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
It was my understanding due to "badgers" that common IOs can be scored cheaper than memorized crafting cost. Certainly someone ought to be selling them for less than the unmemorized cost.
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Then what?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Yeah, they are the only reason Commons are... Well, common. I don't think this will hold true forever, however. I fear the day when people get all their badges and the easy supply runs out.
Then what? |
As of lately, I now sell everything I get, except truly valuable rares and purples for 50 influence, but then I am after WW badges. It is likely, I will just consistently dump salvage and recipes into WW at low cost to help other less fortunate players.
Frankly, as mentioned before, I would like to see regulation take place to control the idiotic prices of stuff, the artificial hoarding and then over pricing of common salvage as a whole.
Hugs
Stormy
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I am the wrong person to ask. I have 22 Field Crafters and am working on 3 more. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Yeah, they are the only reason Commons are... Well, common. I don't think this will hold true forever, however. I fear the day when people get all their badges and the easy supply runs out.
Then what? |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Common salvage - 8 AE tickets for a random roll|
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
As of lately, I now sell everything I get, except truly valuable rares and purples for 50 influence, but then I am after WW badges. It is likely, I will just consistently dump salvage and recipes into WW at low cost to help other less fortunate players.
Frankly, as mentioned before, I would like to see regulation take place to control the idiotic prices of stuff, the artificial hoarding and then over pricing of common salvage as a whole. Hugs Stormy |
If that is too hard for someone who doesn't like the sometimes crazy common salvage prices I don't know what more people want the devs to do.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Prices are one of the reasons *for* "hoarding,* though - and as far as regulation, well, what we can hold in salvage racks (and the number of racks) is already rather limited. |
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
Frankly, as mentioned before, I would like to see regulation take place to control the idiotic prices of stuff, the artificial hoarding and then over pricing of common salvage as a whole.
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Besides, any regulation is just going to meet what PVP IOs are seeing now. 2 billion cap? They'll take it off the market and sell it for 2+ billion (and avoid the AH taking a chunk of it.) If commons were restricted to - say - 20,000 INF or less, and Luck Charms are selling (blueside) for 50,000 or more regularly? People are going to sell them off-market.
While reading the The "Zero"/"Black Hole" IO topic it occurs to me that a great way to get more influence out of the economy would be to add more fixed price options at the market.
And when i say more option I mean seriously desirable options. Like say respec recipes, temp powers, costume pieces or something completely new. Now I know some folk might get up in arms over such options but if you think about it... right now only the desirable items really remove significant amounts of inf from players, but that inf isnt getting taken out of circulation it is simply moving to another player.
Having expensive fixed price desirable things to buy would be an excellent way to start weening inf out of the system. This does a number of positive things for the game:
* Removes significant amounts on inf regularly from the system
* Provides things of value to players for that inf
* Less inf in the system can bring down some of those inflated price numbers (even if it all remains relative)
I'm not suggesting everything be available at a fixed price. But since we dont have any significant inf sinks in the game to take inf out of circulation putting some desirable things there would benefit the game as a whole. Respecs are probably a great thing to put there since its something many players would waste inf on repeatedly thus removing large chunks of inf from circulation regularly. New costume options are probably another good idea.
I know I often buy market teleporters simply to get to convenient locations in specific zones when I know my base porter's location isnt near where I want to be.
Just my little suggestion.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30