I believe that at one point in time dark/elec was quite popular and was/is known as "The Buzzsaw". Dark/Elec will be very effective at single targets.
Sounds decent. Dark/ adds survivability to /Elec, and /Elec covers some of Dark/'s lack of AoE. Enjoy never running out of Endurance.
Since the energize change, the pairing has a lot more synergy. 2 heals, 2 AoE +end powers, and if you can get global recharge high enough to perma soul drain, it's the exact same amount you need to perma energize.
And like you said, it will shred through rikti without breaking a sweat. The endless endurance makes maintaining fury very easy.
should be a pretty fun combo, lots of ST goodness, and decent AoE, plus near limitless endurance is always nice as well. Personally, I never take Stam on Elec Armor, at least after I get Power Sink and respec. You could easily skip Dark Consumption on that combo as well. You have a decent heal with Energize, I don't consider Siphon Life a heal as it isn't even remotely reliable in that regard. And has been said, if you load up on recharge you should be able to easily make it perma along with soul drain. Throw in some extra aoe with either mu or dark PPP, and you should be solid.
Wish i had thought of it before.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
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Originally Posted by _Deth_
I never take Stam on Elec Armor, at least after I get Power Sink and respec. You could easily skip Dark Consumption on that combo as well. You have a decent heal with Energize, I don't consider Siphon Life a heal as it isn't even remotely reliable in that regard.
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I actually agree with you, but instead of thinking it would be a fun combo that has dual heal and dual end recoveries for synergy it comes across as redundant IMO.
If you don't need Siphon Life's heal, nor Dark Consumption's Recovery then Dark Melee as a set will see you limiting yourself to ST damage, and while Lightning Field is AoE I always believe in adding more AoE than a short radius aura will be able to provide.
The OP should of course play what they think will be fun, but if I were to make a powerset recommendation I'd much prefer a primary set that had more AoE damage or more Softcontrol, or both.
Some shining examples would be Super Strength, Stone Melee and War Mace.
All three will increase your survivability through KD or Stuns as well as add decent to excellent AoE in various amounts.
It sounds like a fun combination! I have experience with Dark/ and /Elec, but not this particular combo.
/Elec in general tends to be somewhat squishy against multiple enemies (as long as they do anything other than energy damage). Dark/ has some decent mitigation with Siphon Life and Tohit debuffs, so that should help. But I have a feeling you'll still need to invest heavily (in Tough/Weave and/or expensive IO sets) to feel comfortable against most anything other than Rikti. 
Single-target you'll do great...that's what Dark/ is all about. But honestly, I would call Dark/Elec AoE-lite. Dark Comsumption and Soul Drain are on pretty long timers. Their damage isn't too hot, either. Lightning Field does noticeable damage at high Fury, but other than that...eh.
My Dark/Shield is constantly gasping for End, even with Dark Consumption and fully-slotted Stamina. And his toggle burden is less than you'll have with /Elec. Power Sink and Energize will definitely close that gap, but I doubt you could do without Stamina (unless you have massive +Rec and/or +Recharge from IO sets). If anything, Dark Consumption is the weakest of the 3, so if you're looking to drop an End recovery power, I would consider that one first.
I have my Siphon Life slotted for Acc and Heal. Dunno why Deth thinks it isn't "reliable". It hits as well as anything else in Dark/ does, does a decent amount of damage, and returns about 20% of my blue bar per hit. I'm not a number-cruncher, but even though it might not provide as much healing over time as Energize, it comes with an attack that will be part of your main ST attack chain anyway. Of course, it's not a huge amount of mitigation all by itself...but then neither is Energize, really. They're both meant only to patch up the holes in your secondary's mitigation.
Of course, most any Brute combination will work just fine with infinite infamy for IO sets. I get the feeling many forum posters sort of tacitly assume that lol. But IMO, you'll be starting with a pretty solid foundation with Dark/Elec.
There's great synergy. Like Smurphy said, you will shine at single target damage, but in an unusual way. Your single target damage sky rockets in AoE situations because of Soul Drain.
Siphon Life shouldn't be treated like a heal because the values are too too low; it's more like a form of regeneration that comes in large ticks. In that regard, Siphon Life synergizes well with the revamped Energize, as no one would say that stacking regeneration from primary and secondary lacks synergy. My build regenerates 41 HP/Sec while energize is up. It can also cycle Siphon Life every 4.7 seconds for a heal value of 290 while running the chain of MG-Smite-SL-Smite. The end result is that Siphon Life nearly doubles this build's total regeneration rate, including base, by providing roughly 40 hp/sec. It takes me nearly 390% regeneration to go from 8.18 hp/sec to 41 hp/sec, which represents a gain of 33 hp/sec over base. Siphon Life thus provides more than 400% regeneration when cycled in what happens to be the best attack chain available for DM (Patron attacks aside). ELA at more than 800% regeneration is a tough beast to take down, as resistance provides a steady flow of reduced incoming damage, and you are granted more than enough time to drain nearly any opponent of endurance outside of AVs/Heroes. Most foes are dead long before this.
Soul Drain, Lightning Field, and Power Sink have great synergy in their targeting geometry. You want foes clumped on your person for each of these to be maximized, and when the right conditions are met, you refill your endurance bar, receive a massive boost to damage and accuracy, hit your foes for a large chunk of damage while ticking constant damage, drain them of endurance, and keep them drained.
The AoE capabilities on DM are unique. It definitely pales compared to most other sets, especially WM and SS. What it does do well is eliminate clumped hard targets. Shadow Maul hits very hard and has an extremely low recharge for a PBAoE attack. It's roughly comparable to Shatter from War Mace, with lower burst and DPA values, but it recharges in 8 seconds rather than 12 (and Soul Drain provides much better +damage/time than Build Up).
The other great synergy is that ELA tinted dark black looks amazing with Dark Melee. Other color combos work well too.
Wow! This is amazing feedback! By the looks of it, Dark/Elec does seem really fun, and I have started leveling mine up.
If you see "Doctor Set" on Virtue Server, feel free to say hi.
Cheers
I enjoy'd my Dark/Elec till Longbow nullifiers got Sonic grenades.
I've all but quit playing him.
heres my 2 cents...dm/elec is great for pvp duels...but for farming rikti, i wouldnt trade my elec/elec for anything
Siphon Life is one of Dark Melee's strongest attacks, while it can be used as a psuedo heal, you probably are going to get more milage out of it by slotting it and using it as an attack and thinking of the health it gives back as mearly a little bonus.
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Originally Posted by Wyvern
Siphon Life is one of Dark Melee's strongest attacks, while it can be used as a psuedo heal, you probably are going to get more milage out of it by slotting it and using it as an attack and thinking of the health it gives back as mearly a little bonus.
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As a brute this is entirely false.
Low base damage+fury+Decenty high hp=far more mileage slotting it as a heal.
It's also almost identical to Shadow Punch in DPA and noticeably inferior to Smite and Midnight Grasp in DPA.
As far as SL goes, I wouldn't say it is noticably inferior to Smite as far as DPA goes. It's a little bit less, but as part of your ST attack chain, it is much better to slot it for damage. It's DPA is less than Smites because of the heal you get from it, which as was said before, should really be treated more as an active regen. Considering the amount of regen you get from energize, the fact that it can be made perma, and the fact that slotting for damage it hits reasonably hard, especially with Soul Drain, you are better off slotting for damage.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
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Originally Posted by _Deth_
As far as SL goes, I wouldn't say it is noticably inferior to Smite as far as DPA goes. It's a little bit less, but as part of your ST attack chain, it is much better to slot it for damage. It's DPA is less than Smites because of the heal you get from it, which as was said before, should really be treated more as an active regen. Considering the amount of regen you get from energize, the fact that it can be made perma, and the fact that slotting for damage it hits reasonably hard, especially with Soul Drain, you are better off slotting for damage.
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If we're talking level 50's well IO'd then you can do both, easily with recharge. But ELA suffers durability while leveling and before you're super decked out. You'll need that extra 10% far more then a 33% damage increase from a single attack.
And saying it hits harder with soul drain isn't worth saying since the amount in damage you gain from soul draining a heal slotted siphon and damage slotted siphon is identical.
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slotted, at level 50 with common IOs|
Originally Posted by lareit the evil
If we're talking level 50's well IO'd then you can do both, easily with recharge. But ELA suffers durability while leveling and before you're super decked out. You'll need that extra 10% far more then a 33% damage increase from a single attack.
And saying it hits harder with soul drain isn't worth saying since the amount in damage you gain from soul draining a heal slotted siphon and damage slotted siphon is identical. |
1acc,3dam,1end,1regharge
x1target, 199.9
x7target, 239.1
heal 151
1acc,3heal,1end,1recharge
x1target, 121 damage
x7target, 160.5 damage
heal 303
I'll take the damage. In the grand scheme of things, the heal may sound better, but if I am taking so much damage that 151 hp of health every 5 seconds or so really matters to me, I have bigger issues to deal with. Whereas, the more hp i knock off my target with each hit, the faster he dies. The difference is adding the damage of a med red inspiration, as slotting for damage gives a boost of 33% damage, compared to less than half of a small green one, as slotting for heal gives a whopping 10% heal, for a total of 20.2%.
And as for ElA suffering durability while leveling, I leveled an elec/elec brute when they first released the set, didn't have any difficulties at all leveling, especially in the durability department. Ela is even easier now.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
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That was before the days of +X/xY/AV we have now. Now if I'm not running at x5 or more I feel impotent and that heal goes a long way to letting dark do that.|
Originally Posted by _Deth_
slotted, at level 50 with common IOs
1acc,3dam,1end,1regharge x1target, 199.9 x7target, 239.1 heal 151 1acc,3heal,1end,1recharge x1target, 121 damage x7target, 160.5 damage heal 303 I'll take the damage. In the grand scheme of things, the heal may sound better, but if I am taking so much damage that 151 hp of health every 5 seconds or so really matters to me, I have bigger issues to deal with. Whereas, the more hp i knock off my target with each hit, the faster he dies. The difference is adding the damage of a med red inspiration, as slotting for damage gives a boost of 33% damage, compared to less than half of a small green one, as slotting for heal gives a whopping 10% heal, for a total of 20.2%. And as for ElA suffering durability while leveling, I leveled an elec/elec brute when they first released the set, didn't have any difficulties at all leveling, especially in the durability department. Ela is even easier now. |
And again those damage numbers look good, but you're forgetting the passive 170% damage boost from Fury that's running full time. You're missing out on only 33% damage from 1 attack that if you're just using common IO's you're still stuck with Shadow Punch since you aren't hitting the recharge for perma hasten.
Which gives you
Shadow Punch, Smite, Midnight Grasp, the former 2 are going to be doing most your damage. If you're smart you took Gloom too. To which point slotting Siphon Life as a heal hardly effects your rotational dps.
OR if you have perma hasten, don't need Shadow Punch anymore, you also have the IO's to give yourself damage and healing from SL.
Either way the more effective way to slot SL while leveling is going to be healing for a Brute because of Fury and our lose base damage.
Anyone with a sample build?
/gignore @username is the best feature of this game. It's also probably the least used feature.
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Originally Posted by Nights_Dawn
Hazy is right
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yeah, that just doesn't make any sense. it has nothing to do with lower base damage. The base is lower because of fury, when fury builds up, so does the damage, not to mention that your damage cap is higher, so if you have outside buffs around your are doing even more damage. The heal in SL is static, other than enhancements it can't be buffed. Plus, it is a small heal, and in all honesty should be thought of more as a form of active regen than as a heal. again, you can either have it set to do a piss poor heal every time you hit it, or to do reasonable damage.
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Originally Posted by lareit the evil
That was before the days of +X/xY/AV we have now. Now if I'm not running at x5 or more I feel impotent and that heal goes a long way to letting dark do that.
And again those damage numbers look good, but you're forgetting the passive 170% damage boost from Fury that's running full time. You're missing out on only 33% damage from 1 attack that if you're just using common IO's you're still stuck with Shadow Punch since you aren't hitting the recharge for perma hasten. Which gives you Shadow Punch, Smite, Midnight Grasp, the former 2 are going to be doing most your damage. If you're smart you took Gloom too. To which point slotting Siphon Life as a heal hardly effects your rotational dps. OR if you have perma hasten, don't need Shadow Punch anymore, you also have the IO's to give yourself damage and healing from SL. Either way the more effective way to slot SL while leveling is going to be healing for a Brute because of Fury and our lose base damage. |
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
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Then I might have a gross misunderstanding of how Brute damage works then.|
Originally Posted by _Deth_
yeah, that just doesn't make any sense. it has nothing to do with lower base damage. The base is lower because of fury, when fury builds up, so does the damage, not to mention that your damage cap is higher, so if you have outside buffs around your are doing even more damage. The heal in SL is static, other than enhancements it can't be buffed. Plus, it is a small heal, and in all honesty should be thought of more as a form of active regen than as a heal. again, you can either have it set to do a piss poor heal every time you hit it, or to do reasonable damage.
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I was of an understanding that all damage bonus is additive. So my fury of 85 is ginving me a 170% damage increase and that my damage enchancements give me another 100% ontop of that for a total of 270(actual a couple % less but lets simplify). If fury was multiplicative I'd agree, but thats not how it works.
SL at level 50 does 81.7 damage base for a brute.
With full Damage enhancements you do 160 damage. An increase of 100%
With Fury of 85 you're getting a 170% increase in damage.
SL at 50 with 85 fury does 220.7
SL at 50 with 85 slotted full damage does 300.7 damage. An increase of 36%
Add Souldrainx1 for a 40% increase on top of that
SL at 50 with 85 fury and SDx1 does 260.7damage
Sl at 50 with 85 fury, SDx1 and full damage slots does 341.7 damage. An increase of only 31%
And a 20% heal every 5 seconds is hardly marginal. Particularly if you need the extra regen to survive nasty encounters before you're properly IO. I can't justify a 36% increase under normal conditions for an ability that is already tied for the lowest single target DPA in our tree when you can turn a 10% heal into a 20% heal.
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More damage is more damage. If it lives long enough that energize isn't enough of a heal, then SL isn't going to save you either. |
Originally Posted by lareit the evil
Then I might have a gross misunderstanding of how Brute damage works then.
I was of an understanding that all damage bonus is additive. So my fury of 85 is ginving me a 170% damage increase and that my damage enchancements give me another 100% ontop of that for a total of 270(actual a couple % less but lets simplify). If fury was multiplicative I'd agree, but thats not how it works. SL at level 50 does 81.7 damage base for a brute. With full Damage enhancements you do 160 damage. An increase of 100% With Fury of 85 you're getting a 170% increase in damage. SL at 50 with 85 fury does 220.7 SL at 50 with 85 slotted full damage does 300.7 damage. An increase of 36% Add Souldrainx1 for a 40% increase on top of that SL at 50 with 85 fury and SDx1 does 260.7damage Sl at 50 with 85 fury, SDx1 and full damage slots does 341.7 damage. An increase of only 31% And a 20% heal every 5 seconds is hardly marginal. Particularly if you need the extra regen to survive nasty encounters before you're properly IO. I can't justify a 36% increase under normal conditions for an ability that is already tied for the lowest single target DPA in our tree when you can turn a 10% heal into a 20% heal. |
If you are going to bring in nasty conditions, then I am gonna start popping inspirations, which means that SL is going to hit a lot harder if it is enhanced for damage. There is nothing you can do to boost the heal in SL after you enhance it.
You are never going to convince me slotting for heal on a brute is better, for one reason, and one reason alone. As a brute, I want to kill it before it kills me, not outlive it. If I wanted to outlive it, I would be a tank.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
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Originally Posted by _Deth_
More damage is more damage. If it lives long enough that energize isn't enough of a heal, then SL isn't going to save you either.
If you are going to bring in nasty conditions, then I am gonna start popping inspirations, which means that SL is going to hit a lot harder if it is enhanced for damage. There is nothing you can do to boost the heal in SL after you enhance it. You are never going to convince me slotting for heal on a brute is better, for one reason, and one reason alone. As a brute, I want to kill it before it kills me, not outlive it. If I wanted to outlive it, I would be a tank. |
Better not roll anything but SD then.
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really? |
Originally Posted by lareit the evil
Better not roll anything but SD then.
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come on now, I thought we were having an intelligent discussion, but then you go and make a snide remark.
For once I thought things could stay civil.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
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I apologize about the remark, but the logic behind it still stands.|
Originally Posted by _Deth_
really?
come on now, I thought we were having an intelligent discussion, but then you go and make a snide remark. For once I thought things could stay civil. |
SD offers better damage by far then any other secondary. If you're willing to throw away a noticeable difference from 10% to 20% heal for what is a very marginal decrease in rotational dps then I can't see how you'd justify playing anything but SD for AAO and Shield Charge.
I agree as a brute it's better to out kill than to outlast, but outlasting is part of the brute mentality as well. We have the hp and tanking secondaries for that very reason. Most of our primaries help our survival with -to hit, knockdown, disorient, etc.
Did you guys use purples to get perma soul drain and energize?
I'm trying to make my first brute, and my concept is that of a Dark/Elec Brute. Before I made it, I was wondering if anyone knew if this combo worked. I have a feeling it would be killer against energy based baddies, like Rikti.
....any thoughts on it?