Markets - Allow Level Range For Bids
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2010-06-03 13:26 in Suggestions and Ideas
I would also like this.
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Yes, please.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
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I wouldn't cry if it was implemented, but it sounds like a whole lot of dev work for very little gain/convenience, though. Not being privy to the inner workings of the WW/BM interface, I could be wrong and it could be something easy. But I'm guessing it probably isn't.
Dec out.
/signed
I tend to think the fact that there are IOs for every level is more of a pain in the butt than anything. Yes, you can generally get good IOs for lower prices when you bid on something in the odd levels in between the multiples of 5, but it's also annoying when you just want to get your hands on an IO to fill in a set and none of them are moving when you place your bid. You can place a bid on 4 or 5 recipes and leave it, but then you risk getting too many bids filled, or not having the funds to bid for that many at once.
I think this could only be a good thing. You'd probably see an equalization of prices within a recipe, with the valleys getting higher and the peaks coming lower, but considering it's generally at a 4 low price to 1 high price ratio, I think the peaks would probably drop more than the valleys would rise. It would also make for a greater incentive to sell less used recipes, since it's more likely to sell.
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It would help make the market be more robust as more people would be bidding on recipes. More people would be willing to put low demand recipes on the market (e.g. a level 37 confuse or sleep set recipe) because they would have a good chance of selling. More volume of buyers and sellers would also level out the prices on recipes.|
Originally Posted by Decorum
I wouldn't cry if it was implemented, but it sounds like a whole lot of dev work for very little gain/convenience, though. Not being privy to the inner workings of the WW/BM interface, I could be wrong and it could be something easy. But I'm guessing it probably isn't.
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It's probably not an easy fix, but it can't be all that difficult and I say that with 20 years of experience of programming and creating databases. The current design works only if there is a much greater limit on the number of buy/sell orders outstanding. With a 15-20 limit, there's no way that I'm going to put up recipes for sale that aren't either going to sell quickly or sell for a lot.
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I don't see how you make that connection. Are there bunches of people out there that can't be bothered to search or bid across ten or so levels so they won't bother at all? I see it would be a nice QoL thing, but I'd also predict it would have no significant effect on the market whatsoever.|
Griffyn_ predicts: It would help make the market be more robust as more people would be bidding on recipes. More people would be willing to put low demand recipes on the market (e.g. a level 37 confuse or sleep set recipe) because they would have a good chance of selling. More volume of buyers and sellers would also level out the prices on recipes. |
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| It's probably not an easy fix, but it can't be all that difficult and I say that with 20 years of experience of programming and creating databases. The current design works only if there is a much greater limit on the number of buy/sell orders outstanding. With a 15-20 limit, there's no way that I'm going to put up recipes for sale that aren't either going to sell quickly or sell for a lot. |
Although more room to work with is never a bad thing.
Dec out.
The only possible downside I see to this is how much work it might turn out to be to code. /signed.
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Nice idea /signed
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However I agree with this^
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Originally Posted by kusanagi
The only possible downside I see to this is how much work it might turn out to be to code. /signed.
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I don't have the transaction slots to place ten bids when a low-demand recipe isn't on the shelf.|
Originally Posted by Decorum
Are there bunches of people out there that can't be bothered to search or bid across ten or so levels so they won't bother at all? I see it would be a nice QoL thing, but I'd also predict it would have no significant effect on the market whatsoever.
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I don't have the transaction slots to post low-demand recipes on the off-chance that they'll be up when someone searches for them.
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Originally Posted by Decorum
Although more room to work with is never a bad thing.
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Meben, 38 Kat/SR NPK Stalker (Defiant)
Oh, I guess I see what you're saying. I was interpreting wrong, thinking the OP didn't want to be bothered checking all those various levels to see if they were available. I take it you're talking about posting bids for certain items and just leaving them there to see if they hit right when something becomes available.
Although seeing it like that, I don't see any change in my opinion. It's still just a nice little QoL thing and I highly doubt any effect of significance on the market.
Dec out.
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Apparently so, since recipes at levels that are multiples of five sell for a lot more. And the bit Meben mentioned about not having space to bid on ten different levels at once.
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Originally Posted by Decorum
I don't see how you make that connection. Are there bunches of people out there that can't be bothered to search or bid across ten or so levels so they won't bother at all?
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Why making one bid across multiple levels is better than making multiple bids across multiple levels:
1. You use fewer market slots.
2. If the item is expensive, you may not have the inf to make multiple bids.
3. If you make multiple bids, you have a chance of buying multiple items when you really only wanted one.
Point 1 is more relevant to heavy market users; points 2 and 3 are more relevant to casual market users (and in fact, point 3 was the first one I thought of).
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Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
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Decorum, think of it this way:|
Originally Posted by Decorum
Oh, I guess I see what you're saying. I was interpreting wrong, thinking the OP didn't want to be bothered checking all those various levels to see if they were available. I take it you're talking about posting bids for certain items and just leaving them there to see if they hit right when something becomes available.
Although seeing it like that, I don't see any change in my opinion. It's still just a nice little QoL thing and I highly doubt any effect of significance on the market. |
I want an in-demand recipe (say Kinetic Combat Acc/Dmg) that goes for ~4 million (or whatever). I'm willing to take any level from 32 to 50. There are, however, zero for sale at any level.
So, I can either put up a bid at one (or a few) levels and hope that those specific levels get posted and potentially missing one that got put up for sale at some other level; or I can blanket bid - which requires 18 slots and 72 million INF tied up......And I'd most likely end up with a couple of extra purchases that I didn't want [not a big deal if it's a high-demand item but with low-demand items it can be].
Being able to put in a bid in the manner of:
"1 Kinetic Combat Acc/Dmg, minimum level 32, maximum level 50, bid price 5 million"
would really make things smoother and more accessible.
Of course, my preferred option would be to actually remove the levels from recipes themselves, and simply apply the IO level during crafting (either selectable or based on the crafter's level). That's got it's own issues (ie salvage requirements shifting by level), but it would be my choice as it would really streamline the market interface and drops...
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I have my suspicions at least part of that is just habit by the playerbase of doing their respeccing at the levels they're used to, but also noted.|
Kelenar notes: Apparently so, since recipes at levels that are multiples of five sell for a lot more. |
But, I get it, I get it. No complaints other than not thinking it will affect the market in the way put forth, but that's a side issue and not the reason for doing it anyway.
Dec out.
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Agreed.|
Originally Posted by Soulwind
Decorum, think of it this way:
I want an in-demand recipe (say Kinetic Combat Acc/Dmg) that goes for ~4 million (or whatever). I'm willing to take any level from 32 to 50. There are, however, zero for sale at any level. So, I can either put up a bid at one (or a few) levels and hope that those specific levels get posted and potentially missing one that got put up for sale at some other level; or I can blanket bid - which requires 18 slots and 72 million INF tied up......And I'd most likely end up with a couple of extra purchases that I didn't want [not a big deal if it's a high-demand item but with low-demand items it can be]. Being able to put in a bid in the manner of: "1 Kinetic Combat Acc/Dmg, minimum level 32, maximum level 50, bid price 5 million" would really make things smoother and more accessible. |
There are times when the ability to purchase exactly one recipe within a ten level range would be a lot more useful than the ability to purchase ten recipes of exactly the same thing at exactly one level.
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This is not just quality of life. This change would have very real, very practical benefits, such as saving slots and saving money. How important that is to you is besides the point - this is not just a question of convenience, it's a question of saving resources.|
Originally Posted by Decorum
Although seeing it like that, I don't see any change in my opinion. It's still just a nice little QoL thing and I highly doubt any effect of significance on the market.
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Currently, if you want one recipe of any level it is available and only one of said recipe, there is no way to bid on one and only one of any level that happens to be sold. You need to bid multiple times, tying up many slots and a LOT of money and potentially causing you to buy more than one recipe anyway. And you could STILL miss the recipe despite multiple bids because the level it showed up at isn't one you bid on, but is one you would have taken.
The reason so many recipes never sell is because they aren't good enough for people to bother putting 10 bids on them, so they simply don't both. If people could place one bid on any level, more would bid, so more recipes would sell, so more people (like me) would be inclined to list if the recipes look like they're selling.
It's a basic fact of the Market that, as long as there's enough supply of something (and there's more than enough supply of crappy recipes) and it sells well, there will always be people willing to sell it BECAUSE it sells. This change would allow even crappy recipes to sell, hence kickstarting the process. The more the Market trafic, the better it is for the Market overall.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The whole market system would be more viable if bids could be entered for a range of levels. When I'm looking for a specific IO, I'm always looking for a tight range of levels at the very least (e.g. 35-39 or 40-44) and sometimes I just want an IO to complete a set and don't care about the level at all.
Also, at times I've had an IO at a level and there have been bids out for the levels one step above and below. I'm certain that one of those players wouldn't mind my IO especially if the salvage to craft it was the same.
This would really help with the IOs that aren't in high demand. I rarely put those up for sale on the market as I don't want to expend the market slot. I know that many others do the same thing. It would also help when *I'm* the one looking for those IOs.
@Griffyn
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