Looking for some DPS insight on DS attacks.. Looking to go petless

Nothing new in concept here. Basically a theme idea.

I was thinking of either making a MM with no pets ( nothing new ), considering Demon summoning whip attacks and Traps. I believe with Traps I can get the defense cap needed. Plus if I get my recharge down low enough I can almost cycle through Trip mine and poison traps. I do something similar to that with my Sonic Traps corruptor.

What I was wondering if anyone had any insight on the Whip attacks DPS.

Further I was wondering if anyone knew or used any other secondary set to get defense cap beyond Traps.

Otherwise I had a 2nd concept of a little boy with a Giant Demon ( the last pet ). Basically one costume he looks innocent then the next costume change he turns evil looking with giant demon. Though this idea might force me to take one or both pet upgrades.

Defense cap is my main concern though..

I don't have the patience to do the kinds of calculations you're requesting, but I'll offer a "good luck" wave in favor of your efforts.

I brought a petless pistols/traps to level 36 before boredom and altitis got me to put her into her current mothballed state. I can speak from experience in saying that traps is a very solid choice for a petless MM, even if you never softcap defense, with a well rounded toolkit to help you defend well and to increase DPS. Also, whips seem to do noticeably more damage than pistols ever did, so my sense is that you'll be in very good shape with your whips/traps character.

Again, good luck.

First you'd need to figure out what the actual cast times are for the whip attacks because the listed times are NOT accurate.

Lowest HP cap in the game and no Bodyguarding, and Defender level damage. I thought all the "petless" wonders had seen the light and error of their ways a long time ago. BTW, you know you can take the pets AND all the attacks. Just wasn't sure if ou knew you could do both, it's not an either or thing.

Using MIDS for the DPS comparison option it appears that Demon Summoning Whip attacks do out DPS other Mastermind primary damage attacks. Again assuming that MIDS is correct.

I think with Trip Mines though and Poison Traps it should be fine.

End results, I created a build with S/L defense capped along with Energy. I was able to get all the other defense high up enough that one Luck Inspiration can get me past the cap I think on pretty much all the defenses, positional and typed.

I did end up taking the last pet and the last pet upgrade for the ice sword attack.

My only thing now is to rework the build to see at what level defense caps are obtained or can be obtained. The lower the level the less frustrating it will be to level him.

Having a Sonic Traps I have some understanding about using Poison Traps and Trip Mine together and can pretty much solo +1 +8 once defense cap is obtained with only Trip Mine and Poison Trap.

I will post the build just for proof of concept. Maybe someone else might ( and usually does ) think of something better then what I have created or laid out.

Now my only issue is trying to create a young looking kid toon. Not big into female characters but I am thinking that might be easier then a male toon, since female toons have outfits that can create the look of a school kid.

If someone has skills on making a young kid male toon that they would like to impart that would greatly be appreciated. I was trying last night and not liking the look.

Here is the build for the sake of posting it, for those interested. It has Smash, Lethal, Energy and AoE capped. Fire and Cold are very close to cap. I was trying to keep a balance between Defense caps and recharge. I would like to get poison traps down to something in the avenue of 20 to 25 seconds on recharge. Having experience with Poison Trap and Trip mine, I know if I can cycle through them fast enough they can almost be my main attack chain.

I took the Last pet and the last pet upgrade because it gives the demon prince an additional attack.

Concept is Geeky boy with his pet demon causing trouble. Still trying to figure out the look. Never did a Young boy / teen look before..



Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Demon Summoning
Secondary Power Set: Traps
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Corruption -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(3), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5)
Level 1: Web Grenade -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(A)
Level 2: Caltrops -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(40), Posi-Dmg/Rng(48)
Level 4: Triage Beacon -- H'zdH-Heal/Rchg(A), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(7), RgnTis-Heal/Rchg(50)
Level 6: Lash -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11)
Level 8: Crack Whip -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(13), Posi-Dmg/Rng(34), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), Posi-Dam%(40)
Level 10: Acid Mortar -- ShldBrk-DefDeb(A), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(23), Posi-Dam%(33), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(34), ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(34), LdyGrey-%Dam(39)
Level 12: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 14: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(15), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(15), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(19), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Aegis-ResDam(21)
Level 16: Force Field Generator -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(17), DefBuff-I(19)
Level 18: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 20: Poison Trap -- EoCur-Acc/Rchg(A), G'Wdw-Acc/Rchg(42), EoCur-Acc/Hold/Rchg(42)
Level 22: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 24: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(25), Heal-I(25)
Level 26: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(27), EndMod-I(27)
Level 28: Seeker Drones -- SipInsght-ToHitDeb(A), SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb(29), SipInsght-Acc/Rchg(29), SipInsght-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SipInsght-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SipInsght-%ToHit(31)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(33), EndRdx-I(33)
Level 32: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(46)
Level 35: Trip Mine -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(36), Posi-Dmg/Rng(36), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), Posi-Dam%(37)
Level 38: Summon Demon Prince -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(39), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(40), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), BldM'dt-Acc(43), BldM'dt-Dmg(48)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(43), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 44: Mace Beam Volley -- Det'tn-Acc/Dmg(A), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg(45), Det'tn-Dmg/Rng(45), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), Posi-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Abyssal Empowerment -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50), RechRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 6: Ninja Run

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I wouldn't toot my own horn by declaring other people as being angry with me so quickly. First off they make sense and I have to question the all around wisdom of "petless masterminds". Do people even do this? It's along the same lines as tanks who don't take their defense powers. The entire concept of the class is centered around it's pets. Personally, if I were leading the team, I wouldn't care so long as you pull your weight and help with the beatings. Failure to do that, or demonstration of idiocy above and beyond personal power preference will get you kicked out of course.

Yeah you can do it, yeah it's different, but so is dancing the salsa with a raw fish in your pants. Don't see many people striving for THAT level of difference do ya?

Anecdote for y'all:

Last night my bots/traps got bugged for some reason, I couldn't control my pets, couldn't dismiss them even.

I'd just joined a Deathsurge team and they didn't want to wait for me to relog, so we figured I could just LEEEEEEROY JENKINS into the GM, someone could tp my corpse clear and rez it which would hopefully allow me to resummon sensible pets.

So I jump in, slap down a poison trap and acid mortar on Deathsurge's toes... and don't die. After 15 seconds or so the rest of the team gets bored and joins in. I help as much as possible with my /traps powers, even though my dps is severely gimped without my bots. We make short work of sparky, and I get my badge.

I'm told it was the Worst. Leeeeroy. EVAR.

moral - I'm unlikely to attempt a petless MM, but it would be /traps all the way if I did.

What was killing me with all of this is sadly the the look of the toon. I was trying to go for the little kid with a pet demon look. But even after getting some ideas the only way to make a little kid toon it appears is to cover the face in a helmet. I ended up just creating a Robot Traps and will make the 2nd build a pet-less build. Or I would have to go female with the school girl outfit. I usually do not play female toons unless they have some advantage. EG in DAOC I played a Lurikeen female because that was the smallest race and great for helping me hide and for PvP vs larger enemy. Though I might just suck it up and play the female toon for once in this game.

I have my petless demon/Traps MM to 18, but holding on deleting him yet. Though he is stripped clean atm. I have another DS/Pain at 26.

I have been playing with traps for a bit, so I have a decent feel for that set. I have it on a corruptor Sonic/Traps. I pretty much solo just by using Traps powers. I use Sonic to pick off near dead mobs. And the Sleep to hold groups of mobs when solo farming AE missions.

@Anonymoose

Pets are just out of control. I had time to actually test the tier one pets and even with a mob in a corner and held with web grenade the Robot pet STILL charges in to melee range. There is NOTHING I can do to control this. I used the keypad commands and added a all stay. I can yell stay till the cows come home, they still run in.

@ Madam_Enigma

What was your Secondary going Pet-less ? I have looked at all the other secondaries and I have to say that Traps is the ONLY secondary you can pull this off with. Again only reason because it has it all. That Triage Becon slotted with 4 heal/recharge along with IO set bonuses to regen / recovery make a difference later on.

At level 18 I have 16% - 18% Defense. Once you get to the High 30s percentage wise it really starts to make a difference. Sadly Trip mine is at 35 So it is a long ride to get a decent DPS attack.

I expect it to be much a solo run. But you know once I get to 41 where I hit Defense cap. It will be pretty cool to show people what it can do. Many, many players just do not understand the defense cap and how game breaking it is. So it is at this point where I can pull out a petless MM and demonstrate how a Pet-Less MM can solo at +1 +8.

Your anticipated "on" ramp was my "off" ramp for my petless pistols / traps MM.

The difficulty wasn't effectiveness, as soon as trip mine was slotted up at 36. The difficulty was the predictability of each battle. Lay a mine, squeeze a few rounds into anything still moving after it explodes, drop caltrops and/or acid mortar from time to time, as needed, move on to next spawn. Refresh FFG as needed, keep it invisible with grant invisibility, and remember to teleport often enough to refresh the stealth IO I put into teleport, which along with stealth kept me fully invisible. I'd rinse and repeat until sleep overtook me, which unfortunately didn't take very long.

The journey to 36 was quite enjoyable, though, and I won't rule out the possibility that one day I find some "zen" in the pattern I would follow to keep her advancing toward level 50.

I'm actually fairly interested in hearing how this is turning out, but too bad you shelved him already. Masterminds in general don't interest me but the whips in DS certainly do and if it actually was viable to at most use one demon I might try making a MM finally.

Yay for not being shelved! I was playing around with mids and easily got one S/L def capped. Just not overly familiar with slotting in traps in general.

TC, I tried to create a Laser Rifle/ Traps defender as an alternate build for my lvl 50 MM and I wish you the best of luck. The only thing I want to warn you about, and you hinted at it already, is end use. Yes, you can get stamina and end rec boost from sets as well as end reduction in your IOs, but the end use will still be high.

You may have to dial down your expectations if you expect to do the same things with this petless mm that you did with your corrupter for no other reason than you will need to carry around a lot of blue insps. if you expect to fight long, drawn out battles because the end use for your personal attacks is higher.

Whips are currently only allowed on MMs so that's my guess as to why the pet-less MM is possibly becoming considered again like it was when thugs were released and MM's were given exclusive dual pistols.

WTB whip-wielding corrs or doms!