Please fix xp/inf punishment for "Release Captive" feature in AE!
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2010-05-25 10:28 in Suggestions and Ideas
Blame the exploiters.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Hitler's moustache speaks the truth! Unleash the wrath of the Waffen SS on the exploiters and farmers! Imprison them! Feed them only stale bread and tap water!
to 
TO THE END!Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!
I think Aeon said they were working on a real fix as part of Going Rogue.
Which comes out two months from now.
"Well, I guess I'll just hold my breath."
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
I love these threads. I get such a warm feeling when someone cries about AE exploits getting fixed. 
Does that include "fixes" that are acknowledged as inadequate, temporary stopgaps that affect everyone, including many authors who used allies and captives to create non-exploiting missions with objectives beyond a simple "kill all"?
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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No, if it counts non-combat NPCs as combat NPCs that is a glitch, easily. The temporary fix was to give less points with multiple NPCs, not civilians.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Blame the exploiters.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I love these threads. I get such a warm feeling when someone cries about AE exploits getting fixed.
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A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
No, if it counts non-combat NPCs as combat NPCs that is a glitch, easily. The temporary fix was to give less points with multiple NPCs, not civilians.
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The hotfix that they had to put in might have affected more than it was supposed to. At the same time, if the exploiters weren't being exploiters, it wouldn't have needed a hotfix.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Aeon indeed promised a different work around to the problem, but if my memory serves, it was going to require some additional coding. The lack of a shortly available long-term solution is why I think the devs took the approach they did last month. |
Originally Posted by Megajoule
I think Aeon said they were working on a real fix as part of Going Rogue.
Which comes out two months from now. "Well, I guess I'll just hold my breath." |
What we don't know is whether or not those coding resources will be available in time for GR. So... I wouldn't be holding my breath for an AE update to accompany GR. I would expect SOMETHING by I19 though.
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If author's missions aren't about raking in as much rewards as possible then they have no reason to care if the rewards are lower. The fix didn't go in and change the story they are telling.
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Originally Posted by Megajoule
Does that include "fixes" that are acknowledged as inadequate, temporary stopgaps that affect everyone, including many authors who used allies and captives to create non-exploiting missions with objectives beyond a simple "kill all"?
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Feel free to believe what you want. |
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
I can't think of a sufficiently negative response so I'm just going to guess that you didn't bother to read what this was about.
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Yeah, authors who care if people are actually running their story and want it to work properly are exploiters!
Anyway, back to the non inane comments, its quite possibly not working as intended. The system that had to be improved was a better way of handling escorts, not making the program aware of whether an escort was a civilian. Unless Aeon or another dev said that the system was so rushed that civilians were included, you should report.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
I no you like doing AE and all, but don't count on them giving you XP all the time, why don't just play Regular Content, unless you don't no what that is, it's Radio Missions, Story Arcs and Contacts Arcs out there. Pssss there are are really Good Story Arcs in PI, you can farm and earn pretty good XP and you just might be surprise.
Never play another NcSoft game, If you feel pride for our game, then it as well, I Superratz am Proud of all of you Coh people, Love, Friendship will last for a lifetime.
Global:@Greenflame Ratz
Main Toons:Super Ratz, Burning B Radical, Green Flame Avenger, Tunnel Ratz, Alex Magnus
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Chaos, the problem is this: those aren't the people who are coming onto the forums and whining / complaining. The fact is, the stories themselves still work properly. The actual mechanics that TELL the story and communicate the events STILL WORK. They were not changed. |
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
Yeah, authors who care if people are actually running their story and want it to work properly are exploiters!
Anyway, back to the non inane comments, its quite possibly not working as intended. The system that had to be improved was a better way of handling escorts, not making the program aware of whether an escort was a civilian. Unless Aeon or another dev said that the system was so rushed that civilians were included, you should report. |
What was changed was the reward for certain types of encounter situations within the AE system.
A player genuinely interested in telling a story, and communicating an event, won't care about an EXP loss. That isn't the purpose of the medium being used.
Ergo, there's a disconnect here between the assertion you make:
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| Yeah, authors who care if people are actually running their story and want it to work properly are exploiters! |
By people running their story, I meant that if your arc has, say, 10% exp while being more difficult than most tasks, it will be hard to get players, and you may get downvoted hard if anybody does come, leading your arc to become effectively unfindable by those who simply browse high rated arcs. One person whose arc I helped to provide feedback for, and put a ton of effort into it, is in that situation.
You have a point about the majority, but Forbin accused a person who explicitly talked about normal escorts of complaining about exploit fixes.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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You are incorrect. I did not accuse the OP of anything. I stated I enjoy all threads where someone complains about AE exploits being fixed. I don't care who did what or how the fix affects everything else. I just enjoy watching the forum drama unfold. |
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
but Forbin accused a person who explicitly talked about normal escorts of complaining about exploit fixes.
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These threads are great entertainment.
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Doesn't each NPC past the first kill 10% XP? If he's got 1-3 "Rescues" or 1-3 Allies that's still good (80%) XP and your argument is nearly invalidated. If your friend has 6 rescues and 4 allies (10% total XP) that's... just a bit overkill on his part, really. And he might consider moving some of those 6 rescued characters to other missions, or into clickable objects, where the NPC is hiding or dead in a body bag.|
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
By people running their story, I meant that if your arc has, say, 10% exp while being more difficult than most tasks, it will be hard to get players, and you may get downvoted hard if anybody does come, leading your arc to become effectively unfindable by those who simply browse high rated arcs. One person whose arc I helped to provide feedback for, and put a ton of effort into it, is in that situation.
You have a point about the majority, but Forbin accused a person who explicitly talked about normal escorts of complaining about exploit fixes. |
-Rachel-
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But that in turn implies compromise at the expense of the story and creative liberty.|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Doesn't each NPC past the first kill 10% XP? If he's got 1-3 "Rescues" or 1-3 Allies that's still good (80%) XP and your argument is nearly invalidated. If your friend has 6 rescues and 4 allies (10% total XP) that's... just a bit overkill on his part, really. And he might consider moving some of those 6 rescued characters to other missions, or into clickable objects, where the NPC is hiding or dead in a body bag.
-Rachel- |
Also, some players choose to run AE arcs for both the story and rewards. Lack of content to level on hasn't been a problem in CoX for a very long time, but its staleness has. The AE system addresses that problem and thus, running AE missions for both fun and profit should not be too much to ask for. If AE was intended to provide an outlet for storytelling alone, then rewards in any form would not have been implemented in the first place.
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True but the devs have said that they never promised that the AE rewards were going to be greater than or equal to the rewards you get from regular content. Just that it would be an alternate way of leveling.
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Originally Posted by Quinch
But that in turn implies compromise at the expense of the story and creative liberty.
Also, some players choose to run AE arcs for both the story and rewards. Lack of content to level on hasn't been a problem in CoX for a very long time, but its staleness has. The AE system addresses that problem and thus, running AE missions for both fun and profit should not be too much to ask for. If AE was intended to provide an outlet for storytelling alone, then rewards in any form would not have been implemented in the first place. |
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Link, please? Furthermore, did they at any point say that the AE system would intentionally deviate from the risk/reward principle that applies to all other aspects of gameplay?
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
True but the devs have said that they never promised that the AE rewards were going to be greater than or equal to the rewards you get from regular content. Just that it would be an alternate way of leveling.
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The short they had to put in a stopgap fix to stop as major exploit. NO one is happy about the fix not Dr. Aeon, phosyb, Television ,War Witch or anyone else involved.
They said a fix was supposed to be live by i17 or shortly after. I guess we'll see what shortly really means./
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...07#post2766807
Considering their focus is all on GR right now?
Like I said - another two months. At least.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
I need to give a big thank you to MegaJoule, who articulated the problem about this nonsense to those that just don't get it better than I ever could.
And by the way, I don't care about the xp/inf generated, usually I run the stories with a lvl 50. It's the other players who join such teams that would IMMIDIATELY complain about the xp/inf, and want to leave because the reward system is sabotaged. That's important for you to understand, it was hard to get a team to stay with it. Players, in general, do not like to be ripped off in xp/inf for any reason, especially NO reason. YOU probably wouldn't like it either. Blaming it on Allies isn't an excuse, there's ONE ALLY per the rules and the rest "Release Captives" who say something and run away and do not help the players in any way towards xp/inf.
To clarify, if it wasn't clear in the beginning, that I took great pride in creating these stories and they were in no way exploitive or "farms". I can understand the hate towards "farmers" and "farming" because they are a pain to me as well. For example, I would send tells asking if you wanted to do a 2or 3-mish arc. A lot of responses would be, "Is it a farm?" to which I would reply "No". If I would get a response at all from that person, it would be "nty lff". There were a few RARE responses that would be "Thank God I hate farms, please invite!"
The problem is this, I spent a lot of time creating rescued characters who only help in the way of giving some weird clue, advising which blinkies not to click on, or depending on your sense of humor, saying something funny. It has worked since it's inception, with suddenly a lazy shortcut by the devs destroying xp/inf for people for no reason. I don't even attempt to play these arcs with people, until they fix this f-up. And now when the problem is called-out, the support people and even some wanna-be backseat rednames in this very thread tell me to dump some resuced people and their dialogue as if that's the sensible thing to do, basically dismantle the structure of the arc. To them I say, F that, F you, and quite possibly, F this game. This feature is the one I enjoy most, and if I don't find anything left in the game that's as fun, I'll pull the plug on my subscription.
Just curious, does anyone from the development team read these threads for feedback?
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They said with the patch they were working on a more elegant solution to come out either with or after GR is live.|
Originally Posted by BlueMalik
To them I say, F that, F you, and quite possibly, F this game. This feature is the one I enjoy most, and if I don't find anything left in the game that's as fun, I'll pull the plug on my subscription.
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If you can't handle that then "F you" no one is making you stay.
Hi and thanks for reading. I want to be clear that I have ONE ally in each mission that fights on the players' side and a weak one at that (Lt. level). The rest of the NPC's that were put into the arc are "Rescue Captives" and do nothing else except "say their lines". The level of xp/inf is pathetic even though the critters are set to "100% rewards" power settings and the complaining from inf/xp-hungry heroes is immediate.
Appearently this is intentional becuase when i contacted support about the matter, they seemed to suggest without saying anything concrete that the "Release Captive" feature is punished just like the "Ally" feature meaning if you have more than one of either, your xp/inf reward sucks and too bad, so sad, we can't do anything about it, go to these boards and persuade the development team to change this weird rule.
Can someone who is a Dev in this game change this? I understand Devs not wanting to have 500 Allies making a mission too easy for the "farming" crowd, but why render the "Release Captives" feature useless? Each Captive says something that has to do with the storyline, that's the whole point of having them in a an arc. Why punish us for using the features of the AE? What sense is it to make a utility tool and then punish people for using it? Please change it to punishing more than one Ally WHO FIGHTS instead of any NPC that's put into the arc. It's ruined AE for me.