For the most part, meaning the entire ride from one to 50, the two will have similar levels of survivability.
Dark's tohit debuffs pair well with SR and provides the self-heal SR lacks.
Kat's melee defense will help WP's regen considerably.
But at the end game fully IOed up? I think Kat/WP will win in both overall survivability and damage output. Either way, both are damn solid.
Be well, people of CoH.
DM/SR for sure.
95% DDR against 20% DDR. There's other differences, but this one alone seals the deal.
With unlimited inf, I'd go DM/Shield over DM/SR, though. You're still softcapped in both defense and DDR (or close enough anyway), SC and AaO are huge for survivability (the faster you kill the less damage you take, + KD on SC and -dam on AaO), you also have more resistances and HP, complete mez protection and a tier9 that's actually worth taking and increases your survivability further.
I would say DM/SR. /SR is great and had a heal it just makes it that much better.
As Nihilii said with unlimited inf it would be DM/Shield but that would be at the end of the game not while lvling up.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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Yup, but DM/Shields won't be bad while leveling, just not as survivable as DM/SR or Kat/WP.|
Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
I would say DM/SR. /SR is great and had a heal it just makes it that much better.
As Nihilii said with unlimited inf it would be DM/Shield but that would be at the end of the game not while lvling up. |
My 30 claws/sr is more survivable than my 31 fm/sd but the fm/sd just kills things so fast, it's not a big issue (sure FSC helps a lot but DM has siphon life and will have AAO too with shields). But of course I use more insps on my fm/shields. Both have the same setup (SOs+CJ+Steadfast unique) but the claws/Sr is capped at melee/ranged with one purple.
OP, you should also consider how important AoE damage is to you. DM has none except for Shadow Maul, which I love but I have a lot of practice to hit 3-5 mobs with it (don't tell me soul drain and D. Comsumption count as Aoes please), but a DM/Shield will have a very decent PbAoE at 35.
Another thing I love about my shielder is the ability to hold aggro on teams (sure, she needs support to tank at her level), AAO is a great taunt aura.
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DM/sr is nice, as is kat/WP.|
Originally Posted by Kitty
Hi guys, I am looking to make a scrapper with the best survivability
I have read pages and pages of the forum trying to find an answer but alot of people say different things I like the Idea of a DM/SR scrapper, but I also like the idea of Kat/WP (pretty generic but alot of people must like it for a reason!) can anyone help me decide which will live longest between the two? or if you have anything else that would work better then feel free to throw that in there! |
I have a softcapped sr, and a kat/regen. Both of them are fragile little eggshells compared to my DM/Inv.
Yes, I am serious.
Now, a DM/Inv is very limited in damage output due to the low amount and poor quality of the AOE damage available. But if you want to wade through the most horrific of situations and come out alive on the other side, I have to point at DM/Inv.
Frankenslot Siphon, three cytoskeleton's in invincibility, max out Dull Pain for recharge and heal, then max out global defense and recharge.
Simple, but expensive.
Invul can do a lot of crazy stuff, but I wouldn't call it the most survivable because of the psionic hole. WP has psi resistance and SR will ignore most psi attacks (the 'pink' ones have ranged/AoE components and are the majority)
And it's not simple to cap s/l/e/ne defenses on an invul while keeping a lot of global recharge, at lesat on a scrapper or brute, no matter how much you spend. I'd love to be proven wrong because I have like 10 planned builds for a kinda shelved Fire/Invul because I don't like the recharge I manage to get to cap defenses with 1 or even 3 foes withtin invincibility.
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
Invul can do a lot of crazy stuff, but I wouldn't call it the most survivable because of the psionic hole. WP has psi resistance and SR will ignore most psi attacks (the 'pink' ones have ranged/AoE components and are the majority)
And it's not simple to cap s/l/e/ne defenses on an invul while keeping a lot of global recharge, at lesat on a scrapper or brute, no matter how much you spend. I'd love to be proven wrong because I have like 10 planned builds for a kinda shelved Fire/Invul because I don't like the recharge I manage to get to cap defenses with 1 or even 3 foes withtin invincibility. |
Psi hole is completely ignorable. Dull pain and ancillary regen will get you past anything less than Carnies solo. Siphon makes even that a moot point.
Capping defenses is totally not required. Layered defenses are.
You have good defenses and with sets CAN softcap easily with six or so in a bunch, and for an invuln, that's not hard at all. On top of that, you get more than adequate resists, capped hit points and a beefy heal, hefty status and debuff resists, AND a fast cycling attack that does ANOTHER beefy heal.
Trust me, it's not any single thing that makes the combo as unkillable as a cartoon mouse.
It's ALL the things, working together.
You pay for it via slower kills. If that's okay, then onward!
People say different things because there are a lot of right answers. There's no "best survivability in all situations" Scrapper combination.
I'll partially agree with mauk2 - Dark Melee/Invulnerability is leader for PEAK survivability in its element - surrounded by non-debuffing smashing/lethal enemies. Change the damage types, add some debuffs, and the story can start to look different. I'm not saying, "oh noes! psionic! I is deads!" I'm just saying it won't handle psionic attacks as well as, say, my Katana/Dark with soft-capped positional defense and massive psionic resistance.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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LOL, yes, that is true, but unless you're farming Rularuu, there simply isn't THAT much out there, is there?|
Originally Posted by Werner
People say different things because there are a lot of right answers. There's no "best survivability in all situations" Scrapper combination.
I'll partially agree with mauk2 - Dark Melee/Invulnerability is leader for PEAK survivability in its element - surrounded by non-debuffing smashing/lethal enemies. Change the damage types, add some debuffs, and the story can start to look different. I'm not saying, "oh noes! psionic! I is deads!" I'm just saying it won't handle psionic attacks as well as, say, my Katana/Dark with soft-capped positional defense and massive psionic resistance. |
Maybe Arachnos? My Dm/inv usually cruises through the spiders, but occasionally gets tagged with one of those freakin' debuffs, makes it a bit dicey, but 2400 hit points and a spam-heal will carry you through a lot of rough spots.
The worst is Freedom Corps, and lets not mention Vanguard(shudder). Malta sappers are no big deal most times.... Flippin' Artemis are ALWAYS a pain, even with slow resist IO's in the build.
But those are fairly rare things. And in far more common scenarios (wall in Cimmy for example, or freakshow map, or council map, or warriors, DE, Rikti, etc, etc) a DM/inv is reaaaly sweet.
And if you're that worried about psi, you can always get the Rikti accolade and temp powers.
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Nope, not much. As you said, a fair amount with Arachnos, but only enough to be annoying, not enough to make you throw up your hands in despair. Currently leveling a Dark Melee/Invulnerability myself actually, though red side.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
LOL, yes, that is true, but unless you're farming Rularuu, there simply isn't THAT much out there, is there?
|
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I vote for DM/SR. But I'm biased since MunkiLord is a DM/SR Scrapper.
DM/SR has served me well, was my first 50, my first toon to solo an AV before the AV regen changes and my first Melee toon to do so after them. I've tried other SRs but DM/SR always outshines them, I've not found things the same with other secondaries. All the others I've found sets that I like other than the first I tried but DM/SR is just that spot where the synergies click
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
Quote:
If by ignorable you mean you can avoid the enemy factions that dish it out, sure ; but when the question is "what is most survivable" without specifications I tend to assume "overall", or as in "any and every situation".| Psi hole is completely ignorable. |
If by ignorable you mean DP + SL + regen + ranged bonuses you're going to get through E/N will do it, then you're simply not raising the rep high enough. Try +4/x8 arachnos, rularuu, longbow, psi clockwork... Even +4/x8 riktis can occasionally give a DM/inv trouble if there's a good combo of mentalists + mesmerits + guardians in a single spawn or two spawns close together with a respectable amount of ments/mesmes.
I honestly don't think a DM/inv without insps/temps/external help of any kind can take on a large level 50 solo +4/x8 kill all arachnos mission without deaths, unless maybe with extensive usage of Energy Torrent, though I'd certainly love to be wrong and watch a video of that being done as I could learn from that player/build.
But DM is just so boring 
My brute has been stuck at 31 for more than a year now I think
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LIEZ |
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
But DM is just so boring
My brute has been stuck at 31 for more than a year now I think |
I love DM, especially paired with DA. But I like my DM/EA Stalker a lot too.
Willpower is boring, stop talking about DM and go solo another MoITF with your boring WP
I vote for Dark/SR. I have one at 50 and she is amazing. Nothing kills her. I took her into Romanland and they could not touch her, I got sapped by two sappers at the same time and my blue bar did not move.
You pay the price for greatness by having a harrowing time leveling up, you will die quite a lot, but the first time you get sapped by two sappers and not a thing happens to you...you will know it is worth the long haul.
That said, Kat/Willpower is what I am going to make when Going Rogue comes out. I do like me some Willpower
Good luck to you
Lisa.
So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try
***Dennis DeYoung
while kat/wp is great they do start off slowily. but near end game kat can come close to the damage output of the broadsword itself.
but i would recommend spine/wp like kat this type ends up being a beast in both pve/p. but it does have a 1 problem it starts off squishy. much more for a scrapper.
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wow|
Originally Posted by PhoenixKnight_NA
while kat/wp is great they do start off slowily. but near end game kat can come close to the damage output of the broadsword itself.
but i would recommend spine/wp like kat this type ends up being a beast in both pve/p. but it does have a 1 problem it starts off squishy. much more for a scrapper. |
bolded text not entirely true...
Kat/WP just like all other scrapper combo starts off "slowly"
Kat > BS (unless you're talking about burst damage)
starting off as the 1st 7 levels "squishy"? I could give you that. But as soon as you get DA, anything you pair with it is far from squishy...
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Come close?|
Originally Posted by PhoenixKnight_NA
near end game kat can come close to the damage output of the broadsword itself.
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Here are the DPA (damage per Arcanatime) numbers for Broad Sword vs. Katana using unslotted Mids' average level 50 damage. Notice that five favor Katana, one is equal, and only one is in Broad Sword's favor. In practice, Katana usually beats Broad Sword on damage output. It's hard for it not to.
Code:
Hack 71.28 > 60.45 Sting of the Wasp
Slash 43.43 < 62.55 Gambler's Cut
Slice 37.70 < 51.59 Flashing Steel
Parry 36.49 = 36.49 Divine Avalanche
Whirling Sword 30.17 < 46.11 The Lotus Drops
Disembowel 68.13 < 78.22 Soaring Dragon
Head Splitter 74.60 < 82.83 Golden Dragonfly
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
This is just wrong on so many levels that it's wrong again on a whole new level.
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Originally Posted by PhoenixKnight_NA
while kat/wp is great they do start off slowily. but near end game kat can come close to the damage output of the broadsword itself.
but i would recommend spine/wp like kat this type ends up being a beast in both pve/p. but it does have a 1 problem it starts off squishy. much more for a scrapper. |
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listen tell me how is it so bad? have you even tried these combos? i have many times. if you dont like what i say then dont reply. i mostily play scrappers so i know what i am talking about.
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Originally Posted by Chaos_String
This is just wrong on so many levels that it's wrong again on a whole new level.
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when someone is giving bad suggestions/informations... it warrants a reply
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gee im sorry, thanks ill never give any adive ever again here. why becuase no matter i say itll be wrong.|
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
when someone is giving bad suggestions/informations... it warrants a reply
|
and yes i want to know why it was wrong. but now it doesnt even matter.
Hi guys, I am looking to make a scrapper with the best survivability
I have read pages and pages of the forum trying to find an answer but alot of people say different things
I like the Idea of a DM/SR scrapper, but I also like the idea of Kat/WP (pretty generic but alot of people must like it for a reason!)
can anyone help me decide which will live longest between the two? or if you have anything else that would work better then feel free to throw that in there!
PS. I can have alot of inf saved so I can IO the toon as much as it's needed
thanks =] x